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  #21  
Old 07.04.2015, 22:30
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

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A few years back the Canadian government evacuated a large number of Canadian/Lebanese citizens from Beirut at great expense to all CDN tax payers. This lead to a huge debate in Canadian society about the true costs of duel citizenship. Unlike the US laws, in Canada many can simply take on a Canadian passport as a flag of convenience and never spend much time in Canada and don't have to pay taxes to Canada.
The US government does not evacuate its citizens for free and requires that a promissory note be signed as part of the evacuation request. The promissory note is at p. 2 of the US State Department's "Evacuee Manifest and Promissory Note" document:
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/211837.pdf
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  #22  
Old 07.04.2015, 22:32
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

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I had no idea that those arriving on planes "from Yemen" and telling their stories were fake Then who are being rescued by the Russia, China, India and other? Is there any non-shite in the whole rescue story?

Bankers
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  #23  
Old 07.04.2015, 22:41
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

I expect there were expats and contractors from energy, construction and comms companies working in Yemen.

Their employers will have arrangements with insurers and specialist companies like Controlled Risks and ISOS for their evacuation.
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  #24  
Old 07.04.2015, 22:57
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

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Current plans are posted here...

http://yemen.usembassy.gov/

I seem to recall the Canadian Embassy in Iran back in the 70's going above and beyond the call to hide and ultimately successfully evacuate some trapped American citizens for which the Canadian diplomats never really got full credit.

A few years back the Canadian government evacuated a large number of Canadian/Lebanese citizens from Beirut at great expense to all CDN tax payers. This lead to a huge debate in Canadian society about the true costs of duel citizenship. Unlike the US laws, in Canada many can simply take on a Canadian passport as a flag of convenience and never spend much time in Canada and don't have to pay taxes to Canada.

WE Canadians are well known for our good deeds ,remember Dieppe, Passchendaele ww1,Ortona etc etc .I for myself have plans to volunteer to help with clearing snow , next winter, in Nairobi
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  #25  
Old 07.04.2015, 23:26
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

This is from a PRI radio news story "Americans in Yemen want out, and two flights being readied":

"The number of Americans trapped in Yemen can only be estimated, as there are no authoritative figures. "US citizens are not required to register their presence abroad, and we do not maintain comprehensive lists of US citizens residing overseas," the State Department wrote to PRI's The World. "Estimates of US citizens in particular countries can vary and are constantly changing." "

That's really convenient. To identify Americans in Yemen, use Fatca bank account lists (these will be the same lists used by terrorists to assassinate Americans there). The Yemen banks maintaining the lists are at the IRS website:

0WAM6Q.99999.SL.887Yemen Gulf BankYemen 14WACW.99999.SL.887Cairnwood Global Technology Fund LtdYemen 3WB0MI.99999.BR.887BranchYemen 5Q2KFX.99999.SL.887Shamil Bank of Yemen and BahrainYemen 7QB2C9.00000.LE.887Tadhamon International Islamic BankYemen 8K5XGT.00000.BR.887BranchYemen 8TY5JW.00000.BR.887BranchYemen AUPUKB.99999.SL.887NATIONAL BANK OF YEMENYemen AWZ8L2.00000.LE.887SABA ISLAMIC BANK - YemenYemen C85YIU.00000.BR.887BranchYemen CEQ4EV.00173.BR.887BranchYemen E1FRYV.99999.SL.887YEMEN KUWAIT BANK FOR TRADE AND INVESTMEYemen ERDFE7.99999.SL.887Cooperative & Agricultural Credit BankYemen ERDFE7.99999.BR.887BranchYemen FAM8V3.99999.SL.887Yemen Bank for Rec and DevYemen I3717J.99999.SL.887International Bank of YemenYemen JF90P0.99999.SL.887Islamic Bank of YemenYemen RZXSWV.99999.SL.887Alkuraimi Islamic Microfinance BankYemen Y83JA3.99999.SL.887Yemen Commercial BankYemen Z64IAR.00000.LE.887ISLAMIC BANK OF YEMEN FOR FIN AND INVYemen

http://apps.irs.gov/app/fatcaFfiList/flu.jsf

http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-04-0...ets-harder-day
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  #26  
Old 07.04.2015, 23:34
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

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I expect there were expats and contractors from energy, construction and comms companies working in Yemen.

Their employers will have arrangements with insurers and specialist companies like Controlled Risks and ISOS for their evacuation.
A quick review of Americans identified in a Guardian news story suggests that they are rather ordinary:

1. Mokhtar Alkanshali - the 26-year-old San Franciscan was in Yemen to work on a project with coffee farmers – partially supported by the government’s foreign development arm USAid.

2. Nasser Summer - a 20-year-old senior at Sarah Lawrence College.

3. Sharif Mobley - a US citizen currently imprisoned in a Yemeni security jail in Sana’a.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...en-left-behind

Added:
The American who was killed by shrapnel last week in Yemen:
4. Jamal al-Labani - an Oakland, Calif. gas station owner.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2...emen/25334045/

Last edited by Mullhollander; 07.04.2015 at 23:50.
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Old 08.04.2015, 09:13
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

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But since Obama has pulled back from the role of "global policeman", other countries with large military/logistic structures like China and Russia will now step up to fill the void...
When exactly did that happen? Those airstrikes in Yemen right now for example: American made planes with Saudi pilots bomb targets the American intelligence identified for them...

“American military planners are using live intelligence feeds from surveillance flights over Yemen to help Saudi Arabia decide what and where to bomb” (http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ns-hopes-peace )

That's hardly staying out of a conflict, is it?
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  #28  
Old 08.04.2015, 12:01
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

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Or have a very special job description.
This is wrong

I looked it up, it seems that there were a few Russian doctors working in Yemen, at least until now. Russian medical professionals don't need extra certification for working in Yemen, and it was possible to get a job there, which some did. I have seen reporting about it.

I also found a small forum of Russian speaking people living in Yemen -- wifes of locals, doctors, family members of doctors. Very interesting actually. The world is different sometimes from what CNN shows you.
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  #29  
Old 08.04.2015, 12:09
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

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This is wrong

I looked it up, it seems that there were a few Russian doctors working in Yemen, at least until now. Russian medical professionals don't need extra certification for working in Yemen, and it was possible to get a job there, which some did. I have seen reporting about it.

I also found a small forum of Russian speaking people living in Yemen -- wifes of locals, doctors, family members of doctors. Very interesting actually. The world is different sometimes from what CNN shows you.
LOL, you believe what you like.


I don't watch CNN, by the way. It's just as idiotic as RT.
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Old 08.04.2015, 12:15
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I expect there were expats and contractors from energy, construction and comms companies working in Yemen.

Their employers will have arrangements with insurers and specialist companies like Controlled Risks and ISOS for their evacuation.
Looks like their employers need arrangements not with insurers but with Saudi military for their evacuation.

Quote:
LOL, you believe what you like.


I don't watch CNN, by the way. It's just as idiotic as RT.
Sure I will believe what I like, thanks )
You don't watch CNN -- that's great. What do you watch?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 09.04.2015 at 10:58. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #31  
Old 09.04.2015, 10:00
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

This is a blog on why US citizens do not want to be evacuated by the US - it will cost you a fortune:

"How Much Can an Evacuation Flight Cost?! (Or, Why the US Government Should Not Go Into the Airline Industry)

On January 13th, 2010, Jillian and I spent most of the day in the US embassy in Port-au-Prince, Haiti waiting for a chance to evacuate after the earthquake had just left the capital city in ruins. Jillian and her co-worker, Chuck, had been injured after being trapped in the rubble of our house for 10 hours, and we decided that the best decision was to leave the country and seek medical attention. We sat in the lobby of the embassy for hours, not knowing whether a flight would be leaving that day or not, but in the meantime we filled out some paperwork that the embassy workers had told us was necessary if we wanted the chance to be evacuated.
“This is a promissory note,” yelled one embassy worker as a crowd of people huddled around him anxiously listening to his every word, “If, or when, you are evacuated out you will have to pay for your flight. The cost will be nearly equivalent to what you would pay for a commercial flight, and we will send you the bill later.” We ran to the window where the papers were being dispersed and quickly filled them out, hoping that if we submitted ours first we would have a better chance of getting on the first flight.

The charge for a one-way flight from Port-au-Prince to Santo Domingo for Jillian and I: $1,682.22!!! "

https://goatpath.wordpress.com/2011/...line-industry/
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  #32  
Old 09.04.2015, 10:34
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

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This is a blog on why US citizens do not want to be evacuated by the US - it will cost you a fortune...

....
The charge for a one-way flight from Port-au-Prince to Santo Domingo for Jillian and I: $1,682.22!!! "
In case of Yemen this is not the US citizens who do not want to be evacuated by the US. At least from the news reports it seems that it is the US government who would not offer evacuation. At such prices they should have offered evacuation to people of every nationality.
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  #33  
Old 09.04.2015, 10:44
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

The US Senate Finance Committee is soliciting input on how to improve the "broken" US tax code. The below was submitted by someone in opposition to Citizenship-Based Taxation (see Google Doc link below) and mentions that evacuation costs are re-charged by the US government to evacuees:

"US citizens who live abroad do not receive any benefit from the US government other than the few benefits for which they pay directly, such as a US passport and other consular services. In fact, the Bureau of Consular Affairs is financially neutral, earning practically the same revenue from fees as its cost of operation.[4] US citizens obviously cannot benefit from the protection or infrastructure provided by the US government when they are physically abroad. US Social Security benefits are only available to those who contributed to it, and reduced for those who already receive similar benefits from another country.[5] Medicare and Medicaid do not pay for health care outside the United States.[6-7] Individuals who do not reside in the United States are not allowed to sponsor foreign relatives for US immigration, and in any case immigration procedures are paid through fees.[8] Even in the rare cases of US assistance in evacuating US citizens from a troubled country, they are normally sent a bill afterwards to pay for the cost of the evacuation.[9-10] US citizens abroad do have the unrestricted right of return, but it does not incur absolutely any cost to the government until the person actually exercises that right, in which case the person would become a US resident, taxed regardless of citizenship. Therefore, there is no benefit of citizenship abroad that requires funding from taxes."

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7V...Zzg/view?pli=1
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  #34  
Old 09.04.2015, 16:15
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

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The US Senate Finance Committee is soliciting input on how to improve the "broken" US tax code. The below was submitted by someone in opposition to Citizenship-Based Taxation (see Google Doc link below) and mentions that evacuation costs are re-charged by the US government to evacuees:

"US citizens who live abroad do not receive any benefit from the US government other than the few benefits for which they pay directly, such as a US passport and other consular services. In fact, the Bureau of Consular Affairs is financially neutral, earning practically the same revenue from fees as its cost of operation.[4] US citizens obviously cannot benefit from the protection or infrastructure provided by the US government when they are physically abroad. US Social Security benefits are only available to those who contributed to it, and reduced for those who already receive similar benefits from another country.[5] Medicare and Medicaid do not pay for health care outside the United States.[6-7] Individuals who do not reside in the United States are not allowed to sponsor foreign relatives for US immigration, and in any case immigration procedures are paid through fees.[8] Even in the rare cases of US assistance in evacuating US citizens from a troubled country, they are normally sent a bill afterwards to pay for the cost of the evacuation.[9-10] US citizens abroad do have the unrestricted right of return, but it does not incur absolutely any cost to the government until the person actually exercises that right, in which case the person would become a US resident, taxed regardless of citizenship. Therefore, there is no benefit of citizenship abroad that requires funding from taxes."

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7V...Zzg/view?pli=1
Good information...thanks! I'm not surprised...
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  #35  
Old 09.04.2015, 19:34
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

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Good information...thanks! I'm not surprised...
The blogger at Franco-American Flophouse wrote this about the myth of the "big black helicopter" rescue of Americans abroad:

"(Phil Hodgen, an international tax attorney) contends that one of the benefits of being a U.S. citizen is that, "In theory, if you get in the right kind of trouble the big black helicopters will come to your rescue."

Sorry, Mr. Hodgen, but for those of us (U.S. Persons) living in places like Europe we long ago realized that this is pure fantasy. In a developed country with nukes (like France, for example) there just won't be be any black helicopters swooping down to rescue anyone. Ever. In fact, the U.S. Embassy isn't much help in these places even for minor stuff like assistance for American victims of domestic violence abroad or even those facing a trip to court and a prison sentence. Best they can do is point Americans to volunteer organizations and give them a list of local English-speaking lawyers. I have some friends here who have ended up in these situations and they pretty much had to DIY and throw themselves on the mercy of the local system. This is not, I must point out, the fault of the Embassy personnel who are overall fine folks. It's about the limitations of power - the Marines will not be walking into Paris or Berlin anytime soon regardless of how Americans in these places are treated (pretty well right now but that could change)."

The current difficult situation for US citizens in Yemen underlines that the fact that the US government will do little for its overseas citizens even in hotspots. And if they organize a flight out, you'll have to pay for it!

http://thefranco-americanflophouse.b...xpatriate.html
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  #36  
Old 10.04.2015, 12:02
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You know, I checked the Constitution and the BORs and I didn't see the part where I am guaranteed the right of evacuation from anywhere in the world in case some situation goes to crap (at no cost to me). I was pretty sure it was between the right of the American people peaceably to assemble and that no soldiers will be quartered in a private home without consent, but hell, it wasn't. Shocked!

And 1,682 USD/seat for the safety of my family is a pretty good deal in my book.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 10.04.2015 at 14:50. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #37  
Old 10.04.2015, 20:05
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

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You know, I checked the Constitution and the BORs and I didn't see the part where I am guaranteed the right of evacuation from anywhere in the world in case some situation goes to crap (at no cost to me). I was pretty sure it was between the right of the American people peaceably to assemble and that no soldiers will be quartered in a private home without consent, but hell, it wasn't. Shocked!

And 1,682 USD/seat for the safety of my family is a pretty good deal in my book.
There seems to be the following lawsuit filed challenging the constitutionality of the US government refusal to help its people stuck in Yemen:

"The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC), the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) and Asian Americans Advancing Justice-Asian Law Caucus (ALC) today announced the filing of a lawsuit against Secretary of State John Kerry and Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter seeking government action to evacuate American citizens trapped in Yemen. [NOTE: The lawsuit was filed by ADC and CAIR attorneys.]"

http://www.commondreams.org/node/90393

The lawsuit says that:

"...This lawsuit challenges the constitutionality of the United States government’s action and/or failure to act to protect United States citizens in Yemen, whose lives are in danger from ongoing military action and violent attacks....."

http://www.cair.com/images/pdf/yemensuit.pdf
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  #38  
Old 11.04.2015, 00:21
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

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You know, I checked the Constitution and the BORs and I didn't see the part where I am guaranteed the right of evacuation from anywhere in the world in case some situation goes to crap (at no cost to me).
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The lawsuit says that:

"...This lawsuit challenges the constitutionality of the United States government’s action and/or failure to act to protect United States citizens in Yemen, whose lives are in danger from ongoing military action and violent attacks....."
The main point of the lawsuit is:
Quote:
84)
The Department of State’s highest
priority is
to protect United States
citizens abroad in foreign nations.

85)
The Department of State failed to protect United States citizens when
it failed to evacuate United States citizens from Yemen.
As for the Constitution:
Quote:
The U.S. Constitution, drafted in Philadelphia in 1787 and ratified by the states the following year, gave the President the responsibility for the conduct of the nation's foreign relations. It soon became clear, however, that an executive department was necessary to support the President in the conduct of the affairs of the new federal government.

The House of Representatives and Senate approved legislation to establish a Department of Foreign Affairs on July 21, 1789, and President Washington signed it into law on July 27, making the Department of Foreign Affairs the first federal agency to be created under the new Constitution. This legislation remains the basic law of the Department of State. In September 1789, additional legislation changed the name of the agency to the Department of State and assigned to it a variety of domestic duties.

As stated by the Department of State, its purpose includes:

Protecting and assisting U.S. citizens living or traveling abroad;

Assisting U.S. businesses in the international marketplace;

Coordinating and providing support for international activities of other U.S. agencies (local, state, or federal government), official visits overseas and at home, and other diplomatic efforts.

Keeping the public informed about U.S. foreign policy and relations with other countries and providing feedback from the public to administration officials.

Providing automobile registration for non-diplomatic staff vehicles and the vehicles of diplomats of foreign countries having diplomatic immunity in the United States.
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Old 13.04.2015, 11:11
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

An interesting read from a 2010 U.S. State Department Inspection Report of the Yemen Embassy:

"American Citizen Services
Providing American citizen services in Yemen is exceedingly difficult. As a consequence of generations of immigration to the United States, and the subsequent return of thousands of U.S. citizens, there is a large (at least 55,000) U.S.-Yemeni community. Many of the U.S. citizens have no connection to the United States except their U.S. passport. Indeed, a large number of the Yemeni-Americans reflect local standards of illiteracy and lack of education. This situation, coupled with the pervasive fraud and a complete lack of reliable civil documents, creates a huge challenge for routine passport and citizenship transactions. Because of these challenges, the embassy uses deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) testing extensively to determine blood relationships.
One complication of the illiteracy and ignorance is that consular clients usually arrive at the embassy missing the required documents. Another complication is that the applicants often cannot show that the U.S. citizen parent has remained in the United States for the requisite five years in order to transmit citizenship to their children. Finally, fraud is a huge issue, as U.S. citizenship is highly valued in Yemen. Fathers can receive up to $50,000 (45 times the per capita Gross Domestic Product) as a bride price for a U.S.-citizen daughter. As a result, parents often claim children as their own who are in fact from other families, in order to fraudulently document the children as U.S. citizens and use them as a potential source of income.
Getting emergency information to the large U.S.-citizen population scattered throughout Yemen also is a challenge. The consular section uses a combination of email, text message, and public media to disseminate warden messages. The section correctly believes that only a small percentage of the Yemeni-Americans would leave in an emergency. There is a growing population of true expatriates, including many Islamic converts who have come to Yemen for religious studies."

https://oig.state.gov/system/files/145254.pdf

However, if Yemeni-Americans can prove that they've filed the past five years of 1040s and six years of FBARs, the IRS will approve their evacuation by the State Department.
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Old 13.04.2015, 19:07
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Re: US has "no plans" to evacuate Americans from Yemen

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...

The lawsuit says that:

"...This lawsuit challenges the constitutionality of the United States government’s action and/or failure to act to protect United States citizens in Yemen, whose lives are in danger from ongoing military action and violent attacks....."

http://www.cair.com/images/pdf/yemensuit.pdf

Which will be adjudicated in the US Court System after these other cases regarding Constitutional infringement are processed:

A group of snowboarders is suing Alta ski resort, claiming its no-snowboards policy violates their constitutional rights.


http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57...laims.html.csp


a decision out of Florida’s First District Court of Appeals in Parrish v. Cummins Power South holding that it does not violate a litigant’s constitutional rights for lawyers to use Latin.
A main focus of this appeal is Parris’s contention that the company (and presumably its lawyers) “chose to dredge up these esoteric terms from a dead language to confound, stupefy [sic], [and] isolate” him to deny him his day in court. He says the “use of Latin is a violation of [his] Constitutional Rights as a citizen of the United States of America” and that the legal profession embraces a culture of allowing attorneys to “extract a fee by chanting unknown terms from a dead language.”


http://opinions.1dca.org/written/opi...13/13-0123.pdf


Suit claiming Ladies’ Nights at bars are unconstitutional


http://www.thewire.com/national/2010...s-legal/23155/
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