Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 28.04.2015, 09:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,388
Groaned at 195 Times in 152 Posts
Thanked 6,469 Times in 3,487 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Baltimore riots

What's up there? A curfew for all residents indicates that things are way out of control...

BALTIMORE — Maryland’s governor activated the National Guard on Monday and the city of Baltimore announced a curfew for all residents as a turbulent day that began with the funeral of 25-year-old Freddie Gray, the nation’s latest symbol of police brutality, ended with rioting by rock-throwing youths, arson, looting and at least 15 police officers injured.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/28/us...ddie-gray.html
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 28.04.2015, 10:08
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Near Luzern
Posts: 1,354
Groaned at 78 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 1,539 Times in 721 Posts
Patxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

The riots will blow over in a few nights and this will all be forgotten soon.

This moonwalk however, will be remembered for quite some time:

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Patxi for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 28.04.2015, 10:26
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 19,236
Groaned at 981 Times in 766 Posts
Thanked 21,459 Times in 10,249 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Seeing as you're in Zurich, just wait until Friday.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 28.04.2015, 10:50
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,388
Groaned at 195 Times in 152 Posts
Thanked 6,469 Times in 3,487 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Quote:
View Post
The riots will blow over in a few nights and this will all be forgotten soon.
Meaning....that there will be no investigation re. death of Freddie Gray?

I wonder whether the police consider violence legitimate. Also, are there any grounds for believing that without "protests" there will be no investigation?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 28.04.2015, 13:13
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,974
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,037 Times in 1,790 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Quote:
View Post
Meaning....that there will be no investigation re. death of Freddie Gray?
there is already an ongoing investigation into the circumstances surrounding Freddie Gray's death, and the DOJ will likely get involved, as well. the riots have nothing whatsoever to do with the death of any single individual - some of the rioters are just looking for an excuse to do something stupid, but many of them are releasing years and even decades of pent-up frustration at being completely disenfranchised and alienated by what they perceive to be "the system".

although I absolutely loathe violence, the sad reality is that the communities where the rioting is happening do not have the resources or political power to effect meaningful change through "normal" avenues of protest.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
This user groans at crazygringo for this post:
  #6  
Old 28.04.2015, 14:13
amaraya's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: lausanne
Posts: 2,237
Groaned at 20 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 2,845 Times in 1,204 Posts
amaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

http://blackwestchester.com/2015/04/...protest-bmore/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amaraya for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 28.04.2015, 14:56
cannut's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: canada
Posts: 6,463
Groaned at 175 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 5,558 Times in 3,066 Posts
cannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond reputecannut has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Quote:
View Post
Meaning....that there will be no investigation re. death of Freddie Gray?

I wonder whether the police consider violence legitimate. Also, are there any grounds for believing that without "protests" there will be no investigation?


So you know what happened ,please tell us so far as I know the kid ran away from the police run into a wall and hurt himself . The cop should have called the Paramedic That's the way I see it.


Now you can see with what kind of dugs the cops have to deal with, Burning down old age home ,guess where my sympathies lies
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 28.04.2015, 15:10
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 6,738
Groaned at 44 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 9,724 Times in 4,598 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Quote:
View Post
...the riots have nothing whatsoever to do with the death of any single individual - some of the rioters are just looking for an excuse to do something stupid...
I agree with this bit. From the article above:

Quote:
...Cars were set on fire, store windows were shattered, a CVS drugstore was looted, and the cafe inside a century-old Italian deli was destroyed...Looters pulled junk food from convenience stores...
There are probably some legitimately upset folks who feel disenfranchised. However I have a hard time seeing how stealing things and destroying the property of individuals not involved in the case in any way honors the deceased or improves the situation for anyone.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 28.04.2015, 16:41
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,974
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,037 Times in 1,790 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Quote:
View Post
There are probably some legitimately upset folks who feel disenfranchised. However I have a hard time seeing how stealing things and destroying the property of individuals not involved in the case in any way honors the deceased or improves the situation for anyone.
I am sure I'll get another drive-by groan for this, but it's worth pointing out the following:

the riots in places like Watts, Detroit, Flint, Newark, Cleveland and others in the late 1960's left those communities completely devastated, and resulted in tremendous loss of property and even unfortunately life. they also resulted in "white flight", loss of public and private investment capital, etc. if you look at the events in any of those cities individually, they look like pretty much your typical destruction caused by your typical thugs, bums, criminals and general malcontents. if you look at those events in the aggregate, however, they played a pretty critical role in the quantum shift taken by the US in the late 1960's with respect to race relations and racial equality. things are certainly not perfect today in the US, but they are exponentially better than they were 40 years ago.

I agree that stealing things or burning cars and buildings is criminal and stupid, but then again I am white, Protestant male who could call his local senator tomorrow and have his phone call answered and listened to. it is certainly important to punish the commission of crimes in connection with these kinds of events, but it would be tremendously shortsighted not to listen to and address the undercurrents that are the real catalysts behind them.
Reply With Quote
The following 14 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 28.04.2015, 16:54
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,548
Groaned at 146 Times in 125 Posts
Thanked 15,217 Times in 6,476 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Quote:
View Post
I am sure I'll get another drive-by groan for this, but it's worth pointing out the following:

the riots in places like Watts, Detroit, Flint, Newark, Cleveland and others in the late 1960's left those communities completely devastated, and resulted in tremendous loss of property and even unfortunately life. they also resulted in "white flight", loss of public and private investment capital, etc. if you look at the events in any of those cities individually, they look like pretty much your typical destruction caused by your typical thugs, bums, criminals and general malcontents. if you look at those events in the aggregate, however, they played a pretty critical role in the quantum shift taken by the US in the late 1960's with respect to race relations and racial equality. things are certainly not perfect today in the US, but they are exponentially better than they were 40 years ago.

I agree that stealing things or burning cars and buildings is criminal and stupid, but then again I am white, Protestant male who could call his local senator tomorrow and have his phone call answered and listened to. it is certainly important to punish the commission of crimes in connection with these kinds of events, but it would be tremendously shortsighted not to listen to and address the undercurrents that are the real catalysts behind them.
This is a good point.

History tends to paint the picture that it was the peaceful, almost saintly people like Martin Luther King who brought about the seismic shift in Civil Rights simply by being big nice and cuddly leaders and speaking soft words of love and understanding.

Probably, without the unrest and pressure form the streets, not much would really have ever happened.

Not every riot mob is spontaneous. There are often people behind it. Communities are organized and sometimes protesters are even bussed in from other locations. But even if there aren't, the fact that there is pressure from the streets, be it spontaneous or organized, does eventually cause change.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 28.04.2015, 17:22
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,388
Groaned at 195 Times in 152 Posts
Thanked 6,469 Times in 3,487 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Quote:
View Post
I am sure I'll get another drive-by groan for this, but it's worth pointing out the following:

the riots in places like Watts, Detroit, Flint, Newark, Cleveland and others in the late 1960's left those communities completely devastated, and resulted in tremendous loss of property and even unfortunately life. they also resulted in "white flight", loss of public and private investment capital, etc. if you look at the events in any of those cities individually, they look like pretty much your typical destruction caused by your typical thugs, bums, criminals and general malcontents. if you look at those events in the aggregate, however, they played a pretty critical role in the quantum shift taken by the US in the late 1960's with respect to race relations and racial equality. things are certainly not perfect today in the US, but they are exponentially better than they were 40 years ago.

I agree that stealing things or burning cars and buildings is criminal and stupid, but then again I am white, Protestant male who could call his local senator tomorrow and have his phone call answered and listened to. it is certainly important to punish the commission of crimes in connection with these kinds of events, but it would be tremendously shortsighted not to listen to and address the undercurrents that are the real catalysts behind them.
Sorry but how would a senator know that you're white and protestant? You made me curious.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 28.04.2015, 17:34
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Letzeburg
Posts: 1,974
Groaned at 68 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 5,037 Times in 1,790 Posts
crazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond reputecrazygringo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Quote:
View Post
Sorry but how would a senator know that you're white and protestant? You made me curious.
because only a white, Protestant male would be stupid enough to believe that calling his local senator would make a difference.



it was intended metaphorically, meaning I am fortunate enough to be able to still believe that the my political system takes my concerns into consideration when making and enforcing decisions.
Reply With Quote
The following 9 users would like to thank crazygringo for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 28.04.2015, 17:39
amaraya's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: lausanne
Posts: 2,237
Groaned at 20 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 2,845 Times in 1,204 Posts
amaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Quote:
View Post
because only a white, Protestant male would be stupid enough to believe that calling his local senator would make a difference.



it was intended metaphorically, meaning I am fortunate enough to be able to still believe that the my political system takes my concerns into consideration when making and enforcing decisions.
even still. if you've been to baltimore, you can certainly figure out who you are talking to on the phone- there are pretty distinct differences depending...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amaraya for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 28.04.2015, 17:52
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,548
Groaned at 146 Times in 125 Posts
Thanked 15,217 Times in 6,476 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Quote:
View Post
Sorry but how would a senator know that you're white and protestant? You made me curious.
The freemason handshake.

The electronic version of this is a special ringtone when one mason calls another
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 28.04.2015, 18:06
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 3,819
Groaned at 80 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 6,096 Times in 2,244 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Yes there will be change, the police will resemble more and more the executive arm of the Gestapo but with bigger guns and not as organized.
I wonder if the riots of the last few years are not the first shots in a coming American racial war, you can´t deny that the tensions between whites and blacks are rapidly approaching boiling point.
I hear a lot of people saying: "well they are rioting because they are disenfranchised!"
Uhh! What? Ever since the Brown vs. the School Board stopped segregation in schools way back in 1955, blacks have had an equal playing field in education, education leads to jobs, jobs lead to security, so why do the cites burn, why are the majority of inner city blacks semi-literate? Has every law passed that gives blacks an equal stake in the American dream been for nothing?
I don´t buy the (blacks) assumption that their situation is whitey´s fault, whites passed Brown vs. the School Board, white feds and white troops made it work, almost the entire congress was white in the civil rights act in 1964, and above all whites fought and died ending slavery.
Whites support affirmative action and welfare systems, without which blacks would starve in the inner cities, all the programs and initiatives to bring blacks out of the slums has failed. They won´t or simply can´t assimilate, during my time in the States I heard the term "it´s because of cultural heritage" tossed around, from people who can´t find Africa on a globe, name a single country or speak any one of the African languages.
Sometimes I wonder if Apartheid would be the way to go, whites and blacks hate each other, white police in black neighborhoods isn´t a good idea, nor is having black cops in a white one, forcing blacks into overly white schools doesn´t work, without black studies and sports most wouldn´t graduate, (ok so there is a sliding scale) the few low income jobs still around in Detroit or Chicago or Birmingham are taken by better qualified whites, so why not have schools for blacks, black neighborhoods patrolled by black police, before Brown vs. the School Board there was the separate but equal doctrine, and that kind of worked, perhaps a 21st century version could avoid the mistakes of Jim Crow.
Would it be worth a shot? Perhaps if more cities burn..!
__________________
Lummerland
Eine Insel mit zwei Bergen,
und im tiefen weiten Meer,
mit viel Tunnels und Geleisen
und dem Eisenbahnverkehr
nun wie mag die Insel heißen
ringsherum ist schöner Strand
jeder sollte einmal reisen
in das schöne Lummerland
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at slammer for this post:
  #16  
Old 28.04.2015, 18:18
Assassin's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chasing clouds
Posts: 4,042
Groaned at 180 Times in 123 Posts
Thanked 11,528 Times in 3,144 Posts
Assassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond reputeAssassin has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Quote:
View Post
Sorry but how would a senator know that you're white and protestant? You made me curious.
Because he'd not start off by saying "Senator, this is Tyrell ...."
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Assassin for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 28.04.2015, 18:36
Phos's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ZRH
Posts: 7,245
Groaned at 494 Times in 376 Posts
Thanked 9,815 Times in 5,202 Posts
Phos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond reputePhos has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Law enforcement need better non-lethal tools. A taser does not always sufficiently do the job, so you will see many cases where they use a gun.

We also need new protocols for engagement. When a cop says to stay there and be quiet, people really ought to stay there and be quiet. But no, they get belligerent, argue back, struggle, run or sometimes attack. I've seen what takes place on those streets, and can't always blame law enforcement all the time. Sure, some are hardened and really should be taken off the force. But some of the things they have to put up with by citizenry they are trying to police is beyond ridiculous.

These cops are asked to put their lives in danger, and can over-react to threats, because hey, they're thinking their children deserves to live life with a father too.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Phos for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 28.04.2015, 18:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,388
Groaned at 195 Times in 152 Posts
Thanked 6,469 Times in 3,487 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Quote:
View Post
Because he'd not start off by saying "Senator, this is Tyrell ...."
No, I meant he could have been a Catholic, agnostic or something else...

Quote:
View Post
even still. if you've been to baltimore, you can certainly figure out who you are talking to on the phone- there are pretty distinct differences depending...
I'm sure Amaraya.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 28.04.2015, 18:48
amaraya's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: lausanne
Posts: 2,237
Groaned at 20 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 2,845 Times in 1,204 Posts
amaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

Quote:
View Post
No, I meant he could have been a Catholic, agnostic or something else...
the catholics are up north. the agnostics too. the atheists are out west...
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank amaraya for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 28.04.2015, 19:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 5,388
Groaned at 195 Times in 152 Posts
Thanked 6,469 Times in 3,487 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Baltimore riots

You can play the a**h*** rioter but you can't escape the maternal vigilance...

Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
riots




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tunisia uprising/riots Pashosh International affairs/politics 30 02.11.2011 23:12
Riots in Zurich? Crumbs Daily life 48 12.09.2011 22:51
The Tottenham Riots.... Caviarchips International affairs/politics 823 15.08.2011 00:37


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0