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View Poll Results: Who gets your vote for Labour Leader?
Jeremy Corbyn 11 35.48%
Owen Smith 7 22.58%
Don't care 13 41.94%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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  #141  
Old 15.09.2015, 14:38
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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It is so sad seeing what was once a wonderful, proud nation, slowly but surely being torn apart by horrible horrible people.
Who was it who started this policy of a Little Britain, closed to itself?
And who are championing for it today?
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  #142  
Old 15.09.2015, 14:39
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

Okay, let me try this once on you: Focusing exclusively on Corbyn is like focusing on the straw man in a straw man argument.

You have to give it bandwidth and 110%.
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  #143  
Old 15.09.2015, 14:46
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

I'm wondering how Private Eye will react too - it's beyond parody.

But I don't think there's the remotest chance that Corbyn will still be leader come the next general election. In fact, the putsch is probably being planned as we speak.
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  #144  
Old 15.09.2015, 14:48
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Seriously Wolli, where do you get your ideas?
Major was centre-right, both Blair and Brown were centre-left. Callaghan was traditional Labour and was kicked out in '79. Where the hell did you get the 2010 from, or is that a by-product of your abysmal formatting skills?

Blair was centre-right even if Labour, and Major was centre-left even if Tory. But what finally Ccounts is the Party, and so, Gordon Brown was LEFT


2010 was when Labour got defeated


You may compare it with Germany where Mrs Merkel is hardly the typical right winger. In West Germany it was right wing Konrad Adenauer who introduced the social welfare state
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  #145  
Old 15.09.2015, 14:55
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Really? I mean, REALLY? Can you remember British Rail? It was absolutely awful.

Let's put Corbyn's victory in perspective. Less than 1% of the electorate voted for him. His win may have pleased a few Guardian readers and champagne socialists, but he's got no chance of getting the top job.

One of the best the UK achieved in recent decades was to privatize the railways. To put the railways back into state ownership is one of the main targets of Corbyn. If a sufficient number of Brits (due to the strange electoral system of the UK 36% is enough) let them go.
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  #146  
Old 15.09.2015, 15:14
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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But I don't think there's the remotest chance that Corbyn will still be leader come the next general election. In fact, the putsch is probably being planned as we speak.
And who can take over? The party already voted overwhelmingly for Corbyn, and look at the alternatives, a bunch of nobodies without a personality between them.

Currently the Tories p1ss all over Labour, but hopefully Corbyn will get some debates going.
Prime Minister's questions has become a joke, as had Labour's responses to every Tory initiative and policy, just two parties slagging each other off,
with no real alternatives being tabled.

Last edited by Fish Paste; 15.09.2015 at 16:05. Reason: corrected the quotes
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  #147  
Old 15.09.2015, 15:26
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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And who can take over? The party already voted overwhelmingly for Corbyn, and look at the alternatives, a bunch of nobodies without a personality between them.

Currently the Tories p1ss all over Labour, but hopefully Corbyn will get some debates going.
Prime Minister's questions has become a joke, as had Labour's responses to every Tory initiative and policy, just two parties slagging each other off,
with no real alternatives being tabled.
Tom Watson will take over.

Corbyn won't take part in PMQs - the thought must petrify him. He prefers preaching to the converted.
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  #148  
Old 15.09.2015, 15:51
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Regarding nationalising the rail system - Switzerland, Germany, the Netherlands, and France are all proof that, if administered correctly, a nationalised train system can work and work very well. DB is a national rail company, that is run as if it is a private company. I see no reason that couldn't be the case in the UK. Any good that has come out of the UK Rail system being privatised has been counterbalanced with the greed of the operators, and the battering they have delivered to travellers, in the form of repeated and unjustified price rises.
This is the key point. Whilst I agree that the current system is also terrible, I just know if rail was renationalised then it'd be run like the MOD or the NHS, which is beyond awful.

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The UK has been sold to private companies who are milking the taxpayers.
High house prices are only benefiting the banks.
PFI costs the NHS millions a week, as do the railways.
Who's to say that BR would be worse than the current situation today, that everyone complains about anyway?

Corbyn may have no chance at the top job, but at least his policies (if they get past the Labour policy making process) will be noticeably different from the Tories and give people food for thought.

Everything is cyclical, Labour will get back in sooner or later.
Who's to say how the Syria, Europe, global debt bubble, housing un-affordability issues will change people's opinion in the next couple of years?
The rest of Europe is swinging to the right. Le Pen is ahead in France, Geert Wilders is leading the polls in Holland, Sweden democrats are also in front in Sweden. Britian could be headed the same way. I think Corbyn and his politics are completely out of touch with what most of Britain wants.
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  #149  
Old 15.09.2015, 16:02
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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The rest of Europe is swinging to the right. Le Pen is ahead in France, Geert Wilders is leading the polls in Holland, Sweden democrats are also in front in Sweden. Britian could be headed the same way. I think Corbyn and his politics are completely out of touch with what most of Britain wants.
Left wing can be as extreme as right wing when it comes to nationalism.

There's a lot of the electorate who don't remember the 70's, 80's or even 90's, but are suffering from the banking crisis, student loans and high house prices etc, and voting Labour holds no fear for them.
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  #150  
Old 15.09.2015, 16:09
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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There's a lot of the electorate who don't remember the 70's, 80's or even 90's, but are suffering from the banking crisis, student loans and high house prices etc, and voting Labour holds no fear for them.

Well, it certainly seemed to hold some fear for them back in May.
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  #151  
Old 15.09.2015, 16:15
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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This is the key point. Whilst I agree that the current system is also terrible, I just know if rail was renationalised then it'd be run like the MOD or the NHS, which is beyond awful.



The rest of Europe is swinging to the right. Le Pen is ahead in France, Geert Wilders is leading the polls in Holland, Sweden democrats are also in front in Sweden. Britian could be headed the same way. I think Corbyn and his politics are completely out of touch with what most of Britain wants.

I disagree - Corbyn's idea of a national rail service does not, in my reading, extend to the typical, far left idea of a completely ersatz-communist train service. He isn't that far left in his beliefs. Even regarding the banks and businesses, he wants to tax them more and close tax loopholes but he doesn't want to obliterate industry/the financial sector, a position which is very common along the electorate. He has not yet laid out exactly his plans for the rail sector, but I doubt he would consider communising them completely. I expect he just wants to have a system less obligated to lining shareholder pockets.


Most of the countries you mention, if not all, have coalition governments, where it is entirely normal for such changes to occur during tumultuous times. The refugee situation as well as the recovery from the financial collapse has meant that the far right (and in some cases, the far left) has made serious gains, principally due to the political capital they can, and often do, get out of a 'them vs us' mentality. The SVP have been doing it for years over here. However, in each case, these gains tend not to be permanent. Frances Le Pen has bobbed up and down for years, without holding serious power. Wilders is Holland Trump; also bobbing up and down but never having held serious power. In fact, in the March elections this year, his party was slightly down. Europe is, by and large, and despite the rhetoric in the press, still fairly central, certain eastern European nations notwithstanding. Remember the fuss over the BNP a few years back?


I think Corbyn may well be out of touch with expats, but with modern Britain? including the young, and those disillusioned with politics over the last 5 years? I think he's struck a chord very few politicians have been able to, and he'll be able to ride that chord for some time yet.
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  #152  
Old 15.09.2015, 16:17
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Well, it certainly seemed to hold some fear for them back in May.
That was with Millibland at the helm. Corbyn will hopefully up the anti a bit.

I think he's a good man, as is Cameron, the top men usually are, it's the shower of sh1te they carry around (both Tories and Labour) that tend to ruin it for them.

Let's see how he performs............
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  #153  
Old 15.09.2015, 16:22
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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I think Corbyn may well be out of touch with expats, but with modern Britain? including the young, and those disillusioned with politics over the last 5 years? I think he's struck a chord very few politicians have been able to, and he'll be able to ride that chord for some time yet.
Well put, I hope the inevitable infighting doesn't dethrone him too soon.

To go from 200/1 outsider to winner says something about what is possible.
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  #154  
Old 15.09.2015, 23:10
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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There is nothing more satisfying than proving everyone wrong, which is what Corbyn did by winning despite being pegged a 200-1 rank outsider at the start of the contest.
And lets not forget Red Ken Livingstone, another member of the Loony Left who made it to the post of London Mayor for two straight terms, despite a vicious Blairite and Tory led campaign of abuse and smears. Hmmmm, why does that sound familiar?
Hoping to be elected as PM is hardly comparable to becoming Lord Mayor of London. Lest not forgot Boris either, next PM who would have thought...
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  #155  
Old 16.09.2015, 08:46
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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I disagree - Corbyn's idea of a national rail service does not, in my reading, extend to the typical, far left idea of a completely ersatz-communist train service. He isn't that far left in his beliefs. Even regarding the banks and businesses, he wants to tax them more and close tax loopholes but he doesn't want to obliterate industry/the financial sector, a position which is very common along the electorate. He has not yet laid out exactly his plans for the rail sector, but I doubt he would consider communising them completely. I expect he just wants to have a system less obligated to lining shareholder pockets.
I think its a misconception or fallacy to think a leftist would have specific ideas based on any solid principles. At best, they have vague and approximate kinds of ideas. When the ball starts rolling in their courts, they throw assumptions away and all ideas becomes situational and circumstantial, based on what can accrue the most power for them. Hell, if they actually had solid principles, then they would no longer be leftist at that point.
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  #156  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:44
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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This is the key point. Whilst I agree that the current system is also terrible, I just know if rail was renationalised then it'd be run like the MOD or the NHS, which is beyond awful.
Absolutely.

I don't get why everybody is waying lyrical about the old BR, even though the reality of the 1980s was quite different to what some dogmatists seem to remember.

BR was always the laughing stock of Europe's railways. I remember as a child coming home from European holidays what a shock it was to board the first British train after having travelled hundreds of kilometers on comfortable modern French, German or Dutch trains. Everything was old fashioned, dirty, ill maintained. Today I no longer get that impression.

BR's mission seemed to be to manage a slow decline. Overall every year there were fewer people who went by train. Little used lines were being closed. Services were being axed. It was a slow but certain slide into oblivion. Pundits were even saying, in X years time all that will be left over BR will be the commuter lines around London and a handful of the most patronised Intercity lines. The Serpell Report showed a map of the BR system that was reduced to a skeleton and large areas of white in most parts of the country. Everything outside of those few lines was being managed for the time being, but had no future. Compare that to today where all sectors are seeing growth, services are being added and capacity is the biggest problem. Sure costs are also up, but you're comparing to a time that the railway was seeing criminal levels of under-investment.

Yes, this growth is being driven by capitalist thinking, and that means operators are seeking to run services to line the pockets of their shareholders. But that's the market. Look what we're getting in return. The shareholders of Tescos and Sainsburys' are also seeking to line their pockets. It's people who seek to line their pockets who risk their capital to make things happen. If you're jealous of people making profits, all you need do is buy their shares and that money could flow into your pocket too. It's not rocket science. And the total percentage of your ticket money that really goes into people's pockets is probably far less than you are imagining. Society gets far more out of it than the shareholders do.

Is today's railway perfect? No. But do I want to go back to Beeching and Serpell and the BR sandwich? Definitely not.

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  #157  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:48
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

Yesterday Corbyn was caught not singing the national anthem as part of the Battle of Britain celebrations.

What was more disturbing was that he wore mismatched trousers and jacket - and didn't have his top button done up while wearing a tie. I'll skip the small matter that the shirt was the wrong size.

He clearly missed the "dress for the job you want not the one you have" memo.
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  #158  
Old 16.09.2015, 10:53
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Yesterday Corbyn was caught not singing the national anthem as part of the Battle of Britain celebrations.

What was more disturbing was that he wore mismatched trousers and jacket - and didn't have his top button done up while wearing a tie. I'll skip the small matter that the shirt was the wrong size.

He clearly missed the "dress for the job you want not the one you have" memo.
Of all things, I actually like this about Corbyn. What you see is what you get. Unlike most politicians he's not trying to be something he's not.

If he doesn't believe in the monarchy then that's fair enough. Why should he sing the national anthem which is essentially a crap song about the queen?

It's his choice what he wears too. Though it certainly won't do him any favours in the polls. Remember Michael Foot and that donkey jacket on Rememberance Sunday? Good grief.
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  #159  
Old 16.09.2015, 11:18
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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Remember Michael Foot and that donkey jacket on Rememberance Sunday? Good grief.
It was a duffel coat, just like Paddington
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Old 16.09.2015, 11:52
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Re: British Labour Leadership contest

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It was a duffel coat, just like Paddington
From Darkest Chippenham to London Westminster.

Please look after this leader.

Thank you.
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