 | | | 
22.08.2015, 18:11
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train | Quote: | |  | | | About "has it been confirmed that the guy was a terrorist?"
The guy had a pistol, a Kalashnikov and a knife and opened fire in a railway carriage! Was the guy a terrorist? No he sounds more like a Red Cross volunteer  | | | | | having an assault rifle and bring a moroccan doesnt automatically make him a terrorist. it s important to differetiate brtwrrn lone wolf whack jobs and someone who is part of an organized crime group. I wouldnt jump to conclusions till we have more info | This user would like to thank for this useful post: | | The following 2 users groan at for this post: | | 
22.08.2015, 18:12
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: CHE
Posts: 1,361
Groaned at 76 Times in 58 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train | Quote: | |  | | | Speaking as an armchair warrior you only have one chance to defeat such terrorists and that is when they start the action. They are not experienced and have a few seconds start up time. People who react immediately and savagely have a good chance.
After the terrorists start and are in full action it is very difficult to challenge them especially if you are unarmed. | | | | | This guy may have been.... | Quote: |  | | | Mr Cazeneuve said that the gunman's identity had not been confirmed, but that he was thought to be a 26-year-old Moroccan who had been flagged up to France by the Spanish authorities as affiliated to a radical Islamist movement.
The interior minister said he had been living in Spain in 2014, and in Belgium in 2015. Spanish newspaper El Pais named the suspect as Ayoub El-Kahzzani, and said he had fought in Syria | | | | | | The following 2 users would like to thank esto for this useful post: | | 
22.08.2015, 18:51
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,940
Groaned at 618 Times in 523 Posts
Thanked 22,156 Times in 11,627 Posts
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train | Quote: | |  | | | having an assault rifle and bring a moroccan doesnt automatically make him a terrorist. it s important to differetiate brtwrrn lone wolf whack jobs and someone who is part of an organized crime group. I wouldnt jump to conclusions till we have more info  | | | | |
About "having an assault rifle and bring a moroccan doesn't automatically make him a terrorist. "
Yes it does!
It is not relevant if he was a lone wolf whack job or someone who is part of an organized group and it is not relevant he was Moroccan.
Relevant is he was heavily armed and attacked people.
Definition "a person who terrorizes or frightens others."
| The following 5 users would like to thank marton for this useful post: | | 
22.08.2015, 19:09
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train
Of course in that sense you're correct: terrorists and mass shooters, or serial killers commit violent acts and thus are risks to society. And yet although differentiating between them may not be relevant for you, it sure is for law enforcement. | Quote: | |  | | | About "having an assault rifle and bring a moroccan doesn't automatically make him a terrorist. "
Yes it does!
It is not relevant if he was a lone wolf whack job or someone who is part of an organized group and it is not relevant he was Moroccan.
Relevant is he was heavily armed and attacked people.
Definition "a person who terrorizes or frightens others." | | | | | | This user would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
22.08.2015, 20:25
|  | Senior Member | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Baden
Posts: 456
Groaned at 229 Times in 163 Posts
Thanked 1,827 Times in 1,005 Posts
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train
Seen many mass murders killing random people lately?
| 
22.08.2015, 20:34
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train
Why?
How about the Lafayette shooting last month?
| 
22.08.2015, 20:43
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Used to be Basel.
Posts: 1,125
Groaned at 34 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 2,488 Times in 925 Posts
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train | Quote: | |  | | | Of course in that sense you're correct: terrorists and mass shooters, or serial killers commit violent acts and thus are risks to society. And yet although differentiating between them may not be relevant for you, it sure is for law enforcement. | | | | | I suspect what you are trying to say is he should not be labeled as an Islamic terrorist until the facts are in, but your bullshit PC brainwashing won't allow you to form that idea anymore.
| The following 6 users would like to thank VFR on top for this useful post: | | 
22.08.2015, 20:49
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,549
Groaned at 76 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 3,384 Times in 1,156 Posts
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train | Quote: | |  | | | having an assault rifle and bring a moroccan doesnt automatically make him a terrorist. it s important to differetiate brtwrrn lone wolf whack jobs and someone who is part of an organized crime group. I wouldnt jump to conclusions till we have more info  | | | | | That's fair comment, and in fact his initial claim was he had found the weapons in a field and was planning to merely rob people on the train. Sounded pretty far-fetched when i read it, and we now hear that he had been in Syria and was known to the authorities as a militant Islam sympathiser, so (if true) I guess we can conclude this was no robbery.
As for it being important to differentiate between lone-wolf and organised groups, well it is important for intelligence analysts but not sure it would matter much to me if I was on the train when the guy started shooting.
| The following 2 users would like to thank Pachyderm for this useful post: | | 
22.08.2015, 20:49
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train
what is bullshit pc brainwashing?
why do you feel like i'm trying to brainwash anyone? You can either jump to conclusions or wait till you hear from the specialists whether he was a Jihadist. I just stated that I prefer to form my opinions after I have more information. No brainwashing there, but then you might be prejudiced against anyone who's not sharing your views  Wish you well.
| The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
22.08.2015, 20:56
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train
Yes, for civilians it's irrelevant who their assailant is, but for those tasked with (internal) safety, it's a different story. | Quote: | |  | | | That's fair comment, and in fact his initial claim was he had found the weapons in a field and was planning to merely rob people on the train. Sounded pretty far-fetched when i read it, and we now hear that he had been in Syria and was known to the authorities as a militant Islam sympathiser, so (if true) I guess we can conclude this was no robbery.
As for it being important to differentiate between lone-wolf and organised groups, well it is important for intelligence analysts but not sure it would matter much to me if I was on the train when the guy started shooting. | | | | | | This user would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
22.08.2015, 23:23
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: May 2008 Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 11,940
Groaned at 618 Times in 523 Posts
Thanked 22,156 Times in 11,627 Posts
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train | Quote: | |  | | | Why?
How about the Lafayette shooting last month? | | | | |
"Rusty" Houser had a history of anti-government and far-right views; sounds like a terrorist to me | 
22.08.2015, 23:54
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SG
Posts: 10,017
Groaned at 579 Times in 419 Posts
Thanked 13,462 Times in 6,997 Posts
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train | Quote: | |  | | | I suspect what you are trying to say is he should not be labeled as an Islamic terrorist until the facts are in, but your bullshit PC brainwashing won't allow you to form that idea anymore. | | | | | Terrorism requires an organized group of people. It is politically (or similar) motivated, planned use of force. It is intended to work against the status quo, to bring or foster change. None of this applies to a robbery. Every lone wolf incident lacks at least one (usually most if not all) of the above.
Brainwash. Right.
Some people try to make sure the don't call an orange "apple". Apparently such "details" are irrelevant to someone with your intelligence.
| This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post: | | 
23.08.2015, 08:15
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Used to be Basel.
Posts: 1,125
Groaned at 34 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 2,488 Times in 925 Posts
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train | Quote: | |  | | | Brainwash. Right.
Some people try to make sure the don't call an orange "apple". Apparently such "details" are irrelevant to someone with your intelligence. | | | | | and some people won't even use the term "apple" anymore regardless of the context. This was my only point.
BTW, I don't know if this guy was a jihadist either, nor am I advocating he is one at this point (until the facts are in). Make sure you get the details right.
| This user would like to thank VFR on top for this useful post: | | 
23.08.2015, 08:42
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train
So you aren't voicing any opinion, instead calling others ignorant and indoctrinating? | Quote: | |  | | | and some people won't even use the term "apple" anymore regardless of the context. This was my only point.
BTW, I don't know if this guy was a jihadist either, nor am I advocating he is one at this point (until the facts are in). Make sure you get the details right. | | | | | | This user would like to thank for this useful post: | | 
23.08.2015, 08:46
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train
Not terrorism in the classical sense. But I see how you might think that. Different legal systems have different definitions of (international and national) Terrorism. In addition, he has been called right-wing terrorist widely in the media. | Quote: | |  | | | "Rusty" Houser had a history of anti-government and far-right views; sounds like a terrorist to me  | | | | | | 
23.08.2015, 08:52
| Senior Member | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Geneva
Posts: 361
Groaned at 129 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 273 Times in 144 Posts
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train
their actions are a perfect example of how to react to terrorists, who in most cases are outnumbered by the people they attack! I hope more people act like predators and attack the terrorists! why wait like a prey to die? take action, be a hero, worst case scenario even if you die at least you die like a hero!
I am so proud of these young men, because after September 11 I decided that if my plane was ever hijacked by terrorists I would stand up and fight in the fist minute, and I always hoped that some of the other 200+ passengers would back me up!
Glad to know that most likely some will back me up! | The following 4 users would like to thank bigfujitsu for this useful post: | | 
23.08.2015, 08:54
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Swiss Confederation
Posts: 11,501
Groaned at 409 Times in 335 Posts
Thanked 17,648 Times in 8,925 Posts
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train | Quote: | |  | | | and some people won't even use the term "apple" anymore regardless of the context. This was my only point.
BTW, I don't know if this guy was a jihadist either, nor am I advocating he is one at this point (until the facts are in). Make sure you get the details right. | | | | | Not on EF.  Here those who complain about the crazy PC rules are doing it while they make the most bigoted and non-PC comments every time they have a chance. Probably not about "apples", but they have other valves to vent things out (they are allowed and even encouraged). All is not lost. | Quote: | |  | | | Not terrorism in the classical sense. But I see how you might think that. Different legal systems have different definitions of (international and national) Terrorism. In addition, he has been called right-wing terrorist widely in the media. | | | | | A fine example of what VFRontop has said. Let's not pretend we don't get it.
Last edited by greenmount; 23.08.2015 at 09:08.
| The following 2 users would like to thank greenmount for this useful post: | | 
23.08.2015, 09:44
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train | Quote: | |  | | | Seen many mass murders killing random people lately? | | | | |
THIS exactly is the question. Was and is he just a maniac with the will to kill at random ? or is there a political idea ?
| 
23.08.2015, 09:58
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Glattbrugg
Posts: 18,978
Groaned at 332 Times in 257 Posts
Thanked 11,715 Times in 6,858 Posts
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train | Quote: | |  | | | their actions are a perfect example of how to react to terrorists, who in most cases are outnumbered by the people they attack! I hope more people act like predators and attack the terrorists! why wait like a prey to die? take action, be a hero, worst case scenario even if you die at least you die like a hero!
I am so proud of these young men, because after September 11 I decided that if my plane was ever hijacked by terrorists I would stand up and fight in the fist minute, and I always hoped that some of the other 200+ passengers would back me up!
Glad to know that most likely some will back me up! | | | | |
stand up and fight ? fight with what exactly ? the wine glass ?
y
| 
23.08.2015, 10:43
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 642
Groaned at 219 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 2,165 Times in 1,024 Posts
| | Re: Two US Marines take down a gunman on a Paris train
Much better if people fight to stop these people coming here in the first place.
| The following 3 users would like to thank parnell for this useful post: | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:58. | |