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  #581  
Old 21.02.2017, 23:40
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Nothing going on in Sweden.....
Maybe they just want to redecorate their neighborhoods. The clean and minimalist Nordic architecture and design can be perceived as staid and boring, and may elicit feelings of homesickness.

Broken windows, burned out cars and buildings might dress the place in a post-apocalyptic je ne sais quoi to remind one of home.
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  #582  
Old 22.02.2017, 00:19
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Maybe they just want to redecorate their neighborhoods. The clean and minimalist Nordic architecture and design can be perceived as staid and boring, and may elicit feelings of homesickness.

Broken windows, burned out cars and buildings might dress the place in a post-apocalyptic je ne sais quoi to remind one of home.
Maybe they should move to Chicago for real action
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In January 2017 there were 51 murders in the city, one more than in the same time last year. There were 234 shooting incidents and 299 shooting victims, 8 more than in January 2016.
Oh sorry, no migrants - just the insane US citizens.
  #583  
Old 22.02.2017, 02:03
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Maybe they should move to Chicago for real action

Oh sorry, no migrants - just the insane US citizens.

are you going to post the stats for Syrians killing each other?
  #584  
Old 22.02.2017, 10:09
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Maybe they just want to redecorate their neighborhoods. The clean and minimalist Nordic architecture and design can be perceived as staid and boring, and may elicit feelings of homesickness.

Broken windows, burned out cars and buildings might dress the place in a post-apocalyptic je ne sais quoi to remind one of home.
Most big cities experience riots at some point in regards to different things, the levels of poverty, institutionilsed racism, police brutality etc, etc. To soley put that down to the fact there are immigrants there is pointless, to address the problem you need to tackle poverty and give people opportunities. Also just because these riots happened in an area with a high immigrant population, doesnt mean those immigrants just arrived or that anyone other then disenfranchised kids were involved. I am sure most of the people living there were equally terrified of what was happening around them. You like to give the impression that there were lots of muslims out burning Swedish flags.

Marton is correct the biggest threat to Americans are Americans themselves. Most of the countries in the travel ban have had ZERO citizens carry out any attacks on American soil. Trump is just a populist playing on peoples paranoia and fear.
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  #585  
Old 22.02.2017, 10:36
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Same people, different clothes:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4bR7nVWYAA64To.jpg
Given the huge goodwill the trip generated and the large upside for Swedish trade, it seems like pragmatism won over media hysteria.
If I was a famous Swedish furniture store or car manufacturer, I would expect my politicians to observe some element of diplomatic common sense e.g. not breaking local laws the moment you step off the plane. Thats called a protest, and its a rather different beast to trade talks
  #586  
Old 22.02.2017, 10:39
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Given the huge goodwill the trip generated and the large upside for Swedish trade, it seems like pragmatism won over media hysteria.
If I was a famous Swedish furniture store or car manufacturer, I would expect my politicians to observe some element of diplomatic common sense e.g. not breaking local laws the moment you step off the plane. Thats called a protest, and its a rather different beast to trade talks
Agreed. I have found that, while on a diplomatic excursion, the best manner is a diplomatic one.

That logic is lost on some people, unfortunately.
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Old 22.02.2017, 10:47
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Which came first, the chicken or the egg.

Of course Trump's tweets encourage this sort of thing.
Immigrants can also read
Are you serious, Marton?
This sort of sabotages your other posts.
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Old 22.02.2017, 11:12
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Given the huge goodwill the trip generated and the large upside for Swedish trade, it seems like pragmatism won over media hysteria.
If I was a famous Swedish furniture store or car manufacturer, I would expect my politicians to observe some element of diplomatic common sense e.g. not breaking local laws the moment you step off the plane. Thats called a protest, and its a rather different beast to trade talks
Agreed it was only diplomacy, although I also see the sense in the other argument calling out the hypcritical nature of the Swedish government, especially regarding womens rights and other human rights abuses in Iran. In otherwords economics as per norm. outweighs the human rights abuses.

Last edited by TobiasM; 22.02.2017 at 11:24.
  #589  
Old 22.02.2017, 11:55
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Most big cities experience riots at some point in regards to different things, the levels of poverty, institutionilsed racism, police brutality etc, etc. To soley put that down to the fact there are immigrants there is pointless, to address the problem you need to tackle poverty and give people opportunities.
But the problem is DIRECTLY related to migrants, it's amazing you are so blind to it Sweden took TOO MANY migrants and now simply doesn't know how to handle them.

"Poverty"? How do you expect the Swedish government to take in so many non-Swedish speaking people, the majority of them uneducated...and give them all well paying jobs? Most migrants are living off the welfare system, or have menial low-wage jobs. They see the native Swedes living better lives, and get frustrated and angry and blame everyone else for their situation, not that they can't speak the local language or lack an education/skill. Same with the migrant ghettos around Paris. And Belgium. And soon Germany... The migrants have pushed their way into Europe, pushed their way into the EU welfare system, and now want to improve their lives by trying to push their way there as well.

"Institutionalized racism" in Sweden? Really? They are probably one of the LEAST racist countries in Europe, not saying there is ZERO racism, but for sure not on a grand industrial scale as you are suggesting. If you want to see more "racist" countries in Europe, you'll have to look away from Central EU and Scandinavia, and more in the direction of East EU and Russia.
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Old 22.02.2017, 12:43
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Agreed it was only diplomacy, although I also see the sense in the other argument calling out the hypcritical nature of the Swedish government, especially regarding womens rights and other human rights abuses in Iran. In otherwords economics as per norm. outweighs the human rights abuses.
As long as these are consistently applied e.g to China, Israel, Saudi Arabia etc.. as well as those that have lurched towards right-wing populism (e.g. Hungary) I have no problem with that. If more countries adhered to strict ethical foreign policies, the world might be a better place.
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Old 22.02.2017, 12:55
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Given the huge goodwill the trip generated and the large upside for Swedish trade, it seems like pragmatism won over media hysteria.
If I was a famous Swedish furniture store or car manufacturer, I would expect my politicians to observe some element of diplomatic common sense e.g. not breaking local laws the moment you step off the plane. Thats called a protest, and its a rather different beast to trade talks
Business is business. If local laws offends what you stand for (in this case, Feminism and human rights) respect them so you could make a deal.

Trump is not even 2 months in office and you already adopted his principles. impressive.
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Old 22.02.2017, 12:59
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

I love it when this particular beast rolls around.

Conflating the head scarf with feminism and human rights.

Predictable.
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Old 22.02.2017, 13:59
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

Forcing women to wear specific clothes is a human rights offence par excellence when enforced by law.

Iran is one of the world worst offenders when it comes to Human rights and Feminism. If Sweden wants to ignore that so it could sell more flatpacks it should keep very quiet when criticising other countries.
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Old 22.02.2017, 14:02
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Marton is correct the biggest threat to Americans are Americans themselves. Most of the countries in the travel ban have had ZERO citizens carry out any attacks on American soil. Trump is just a populist playing on peoples paranoia and fear.
That is quite true that the level of violence in the US is perpetuated by Americans themselves. Shootings in Chicago and riots in Berkeley were conducted by Americans.

Nevertheless, there are problems with illegal alien criminality in the US and Europe. There are loopholes that allows criminal aliens to come in, commit crimes, and avoid justice. This does not bode well for the integrity of country. There should be an orderly way to allow people in that keeps them accountable for their actions.

I think there needs to be a social contract for anyone entering a country that forfeits their privilege to stay if they do not uphold the society and culture they are entering into. This is assumed, yet some do not seem to understand what is expected of them. It really needs to be spelled out more clearly without ambiguity, and it should be upheld.
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Old 22.02.2017, 14:09
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Forcing women to wear specific clothes is a human rights offence par excellence when enforced by law.

Iran is one of the world worst offenders when it comes to Human rights and Feminism. If Sweden wants to ignore that so it could sell more flatpacks it should keep very quiet when criticising other countries.
Tell the truth, you mean Sweden shouldn't criticize one particular country...Come now, pashosh, no need to play games.

In any case, you're right. Disagreeing with a particular law in a country does of course, mean you should be allowed to ignore it completely when you visit. Diplomacy and practicality be damned.

And, of course, adhering to the law of the land is less important than making an international incident over it.
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Old 22.02.2017, 14:29
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Tell the truth, you mean Sweden shouldn't criticize one particular country...Come now, pashosh, no need to play games.

In any case, you're right. Disagreeing with a particular law in a country does of course, mean you should be allowed to ignore it completely when you visit. Diplomacy and practicality be damned.

And, of course, adhering to the law of the land is less important than making an international incident over it.
The Swedish governement criticised the U.S for not respecting women, then went en-masse to Iran (which is bad enough) and put on the compulsory headscarves (thus dis-respcting themselves).

Hypocrites.
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Old 22.02.2017, 14:45
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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The Swedish governement criticised the U.S for not respecting women, then went en-masse to Iran (which is bad enough) and put on the compulsory headscarves (thus dis-respcting themselves).

Hypocrites.
This hipocrisy is a philosophical regression they will never ever overcome in their current trajectory. They can only hope people do not notice, forget or simply shut up about it. Its quite widespread in the West, yet it doesn't have much prospect of a future.

I think they need to be exiled for a long time in the political wilderness for them to come to terms with it In the meantime, it will be called out at every turn.
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Old 22.02.2017, 14:51
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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The Swedish governement criticised the U.S for not respecting women, then went en-masse to Iran (which is bad enough) and put on the compulsory headscarves (thus dis-respcting themselves).

Hypocrites.
I see your point. They were forced to go to Iran. They didn't have a say in the matter. They could not possibly have been given the choice of not attending. Logically, it follows that they were literally forced to don scarves.

Its like someone asking to come inside your house, and then insisting they be allowed to walk around on your clean carpet with their muddy shoes, because they don't think it necessary.
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Old 22.02.2017, 15:03
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Its like someone asking to come inside your house, and then insisting they be allowed to walk around on your clean carpet with their muddy shoes, because they don't think it necessary.
We may be getting somewhere...
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Old 22.02.2017, 15:11
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Re: Migrants, Refugees, Asylum Seekers or Other terms?

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Forcing women to wear specific clothes is a human rights offence par excellence when enforced by law.

Iran is one of the world worst offenders when it comes to Human rights and Feminism. If Sweden wants to ignore that so it could sell more flatpacks it should keep very quiet when criticising other countries.
I do not see a problem with people respecting other countries customs when they visit that country?

That does not stop you criticising such customs, of course!

Here in Switzerland we expect people to respect the lunch hour quiet time?
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