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  #1821  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:12
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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What you meant is that you are better than st2lemans because you have Swiss blood and didn't acquire your passport through naturalisation.

That makes you a "blood and soil" type in most people's books. Interpret that as you will.
You know better what I meant than I do? Who are you, Oliver Cromwell?


I think that st2lemans hasn't any right to point out that he would be any better than anybody here just because he's a Swiss. So what? There are 6 million others of those.


But if the maxime is that refugees are considered as being somehow "illegal", less valid than others (i.e. those selfish Anglos in their expat bubble),

then that opinion is very strange if uttered from a mouth of an immigrant himself.
A justification of the type "the law is in process to be continuously changed" is invalid, if a stranger cannot even express his political belief in voting rights he doesn't have,
and if the same type of Person blamed refugees for their lack of respect towards Swiss or continental law.
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  #1822  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:14
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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You know better what I meant than I do? Who are you, Oliver Cromwell?
Words mean what they mean. You made a distinction between st2lemans' naturalised status and your "Swiss-by-blood" status.

It's perfectly clear what you meant.
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  #1823  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:18
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Aren't you that refugee escaping from IRS with only that red paper that states you are a new Papierlischweizer?
Nope. I've never had a problem with the IRS, perhaps because I always did the easy paperwork.

And, 20 years isn't new.

Meanwhile, my wife's Swiss ancestors go long before the 1848 birth of Switzerland.

Tom
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  #1824  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:18
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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I don't care about ius sanguinis, if that's what you mean (or are you referring to the Nazi Thing? Why are you Anglos so much in love with all that Nazi stuff? Strange fetish, imho).


What I meant is that one of the citizen's duties is the respect and the protection of fundamental rights guaranted by the Constitution, among them Asylum.


Imho very strange that those who blaim the refugees not to love "Western" constitutions have so little respect towards Swiss law.
Furthermore, those users are "guests" in the country and should kind of "behave".
And it might not up to them to change Swiss law, btw., so the "discussion" is quite relativistic in any case.
Maybe integration could be a better first step.

So you are neither German nor Swiss, yet I happen to be Swiss. And so what is it you want to say about what I do? Are you even "Continental European"? Oh, nevermind, because it is clear. Trolls have no nationalities.
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  #1825  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:19
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Words mean what they mean. You made a distinction between st2lemans' naturalised status and your "Swiss-by-blood" status.
...
There is a difference.


A psychological one. It's not too much hazardous imho to expect from an immigrant empathy with other immigrants.


Furthermore, a person who has other passports can quite easily go back to one of his (former) homecountries. A Swiss without those cannot.
So if the first really thinks that Switzerland or other countries with Code Civil have constitutions and laws they cannot abide, it's not so difficult for them to simply go home.


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Meanwhile, my wife's Swiss ancestors go long before the 1848 birth of Switzerland.
Your wife is not you.
And the recent one isn't from Italy?
So you aren't both Born Swiss.


No Problem with that, none of my business, I simply don't care at all.

But please, no reason for you to point out continously that somebody would be better than others just because he's here for 20 years and speaks dialects.
No big deal.


20 years btw. isn't really much.
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  #1826  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:19
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Maybe integration could be a better first step.
But I AM integrated, I always vote LEGA.

Tom
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  #1827  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:19
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Trolls have no nationalities.
I thought most of them were Norwegian?
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  #1828  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:20
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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There is a difference.
Thank you for proving my point.

Blood matters to you.
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  #1829  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:21
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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But if the maxime is that refugees are considered as being somehow "illegal", less valid than others
No, only if they are, in fact, illegal.

Pretty simple concept, no?

Tom
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  #1830  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:23
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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a person who has other passports can quite easily go back to one of his homecountries. A Swiss without those cannot.
I am Swiss, I have no other citizenship (nor passport, NOT the same thing)

Tom
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  #1831  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:29
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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And the recent one isn't from Italy?
No, she's not, never has been, and was born Swiss, as was her father, grand-father, etc.

She speaks only Italian, yes, but only because her Swiss-German father settled in TI, and never spoke it at home.

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So you aren't both Born Swiss.
No, only she. And her father, grandfather, etc, going back to the Eidgenossenschaft.

Tom
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  #1832  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:29
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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I am Swiss, I have no other citizenship (nor passport, NOT the same thing)
OK, then you are an exception.


However, e.g. your daughters have.


But the point is, again, that it's strange that people with a migration background and maybe - at least for a certain period of time, in your case in the beginning - foreigners to a certain country,
agitate so much against other migrants and feel themselves somehow more valuable.
Very strange, imho, and new for me.
I don't know in which society you live in Ticino, but I have never experienced this so far, in real life.
  #1833  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:31
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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OK, then you are an exception.


However, e.g. your daughters have.
Yes, but they were born Swiss, the others they acquired later.

Tom
  #1834  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:32
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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Very strange, imho, and new for me.
That's called naiveté, no?
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  #1835  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:35
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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I don't know in which society you live in Ticino, but I have never experienced this so far, in real life.
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  #1836  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:42
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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But I AM integrated, I always vote LEGA.
But you speak to strangers, it be only on EF. So no Ticino hero status for you.
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  #1837  
Old 09.12.2015, 23:42
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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I don't know in which society you live in Ticino, but I have never experienced this so far, in real life.
Then you've lived a rather sheltered life.

Within my immediate family, we have 7 different mother tongues (not counting dialects/variations).

Tom
  #1838  
Old 10.12.2015, 00:03
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Life in Switzerland is sheltered; no doubt about that.
But in a society or even in a sheltered micro-cosmos like Ticino or Switzerland, infact, it is quite normal that you might have 7 languages at one table.
Again - the more strange it seems to me that the asylum debate on this forum - dominated by Anglo-Saxons i.e. immigrants -
is kind of corrupted by continously stiring up hatred to the weaker position, i.e. the refugees - which, btw., is all but a noble attitude(do those have any pride left? What happened to that old stereotype from Robin Hood? I would call that behaviour absolutely "cafone", and apart from this forum, I don't know many persons like this).
Not even SVP or Lega have it on their agenda with so much fervour, which, after all, are democratic parties,


much unlike Pegida, FN, Ukip or Vlaams Belang.
  #1839  
Old 10.12.2015, 00:09
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

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But the point is, again, that it's strange that people with a migration background and maybe - at least for a certain period of time, in your case in the beginning - foreigners to a certain country,
agitate so much against other migrants and feel themselves somehow more valuable.

I personally don't feel better or worse than other immigrants. It is a bit as when I built a house back there and put my work and savings in it, and I don't share my savings or my house with strangers except for charity or hardship within family.
Then I found a job in a quiet, peaceful place, after jumping many hoops, and taking a lowball offer to get to the boat, and I'm paying all my dues according to the Swiss definition of a middle class here. And I want it to stay this way. Am I selfish? Sure. But the word "lifestyle" isn't even in my vocabulary. My foremost concerns are security, "sozialer Frieden" - social peace and social solidarity.

BTW: a family with kids on benefits can easily draw in this country close to 100k of support per year in, let's say, Geneva or Zurich. That's a golden standard, but I'm assuring you, we aren't yet in a paradise where a large chunk of society can live like that. The pie is not large enough for that. Someone has to pay for it this way or the other. And who pays? The middle and lower class - with high VAT and taxes on salaries. Many generations worked out a functioning society, and this society is the future for our kids.
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  #1840  
Old 10.12.2015, 00:15
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Re: How should the EU handle the Migrant Crisis from now?

Yacek,


I linked the article (from Spiegel) before.


What really costs the Society are not asylum seeking refugees, but lacks in infrastructure and social welfare to EUs and locals.


Plus, in case of CH, expats. Like others, they generate benefits and costs, too. But not to everybody in an equal amount.



Another story is the ancestors' thing you are talking about. The Swiss' ancestors built up the Country for their children and grandchildren, for the respect of law and the Constitution, among the latter the right for asylum.


They didn't build it up for the immigrants, nor did they ever work for expats and the need of those migrants to join Switzerland for economic reasons, because their homecountries don't manage to feed them well.
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