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  #141  
Old 25.09.2015, 15:45
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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Well, on this beautiful sunny Friday afternoon, it`s so nice to see you all getting along so well together here!
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  #142  
Old 25.09.2015, 15:46
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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What a load of cobblers. Don't try and inject a deeper holy meaning to survival instinct.

If you try to kill me, I will try to kill you too. Whoever loses will not pass on their genes (or won't pass them on any more!). Scientifically speaking, that is great for a species as a whole, as the strongest are able to reproduce.
Okay, sorry, bad post. I'm tired and didn't illustrate my point well at all.

I never mentioned anything holy, and I'm not preaching religion.

In response to Ace's post about not being religious or spiritual at all, I was thinking about the ideas of religious philosopher Mircea Eliade. from wikipedia:
"
Behind the diverse cultural forms of different religions, Eliade proposes a universal: traditional man, he claims, "always believes that there is an absolute reality, the sacred, which transcends this world but manifests itself in this world, thereby sanctifying it and making it real".[163] Furthermore, traditional man's behavior gains purpose and meaning through the Sacred: "By imitating divine behavior, man puts and keeps himself close to the gods—that is, in the real and the significant."[164]

According to Eliade, "modern nonreligious man assumes a new existential situation".[163] For traditional man, historical events gain significance by imitating sacred, transcendent events. In contrast, nonreligious man lacks sacred models for how history or human behavior should be, so he must decide on his own how history should proceed—he "regards himself solely as the subject and agent of history, and refuses all appeal to transcendence".[165] From the standpoint of religious thought, the world has an objective purpose established by mythical events, to which man should conform himself: "Myth teaches [religious man] the primordial 'stories' that have constituted him existentially."[166] From the standpoint of secular thought, any purpose must be invented and imposed on the world by man. Because of this new "existential situation", Eliade argues, the Sacred becomes the primary obstacle to nonreligious man's "freedom". In viewing himself as the proper maker of history, nonreligious man resists all notions of an externally (for instance, divinely) imposed order or model he must obey: modern man "makes himself, and he only makes himself completely in proportion as he desacralizes himself and the world. [...] He will not truly be free until he has killed the last god".[165]

Religious survivals in the secular world[edit]
Eliade says that secular man cannot escape his bondage to religious thought. By its very nature, secularism depends on religion for its sense of identity: by resisting sacred models, by insisting that man make history on his own, secular man identifies himself only through opposition to religious thought: "He [secular man] recognizes himself in proportion as he 'frees' and 'purifies' himself from the 'superstitions' of his ancestors."[167] Furthermore, modern man "still retains a large stock of camouflaged myths and degenerated rituals".[168] For example, modern social events still have similarities to traditional initiation rituals, and modern novels feature mythical motifs and themes.[169] Finally, secular man still participates in something like the eternal return: by reading modern literature, "modern man succeeds in obtaining an 'escape from time' comparable to the 'emergence from time' effected by myths".[170] "


I agree, and believe that 'the sacred' has evolved as a way to fulfill specific need(s) on a psychological level - it's part of us, built into our psychological evolution.



That's it..

Enjoy your day, everyone.
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  #143  
Old 25.09.2015, 15:55
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

If someone holds something sacred, that you don't, then you knowingly step on it, and don't bother apologizing, whether or not it can be proven to be truly sacred, it still makes you an asshole,no?
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  #144  
Old 25.09.2015, 15:59
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

If you ever find yourself with a spare hour, I would highly recommend watching this interview of John Lloyd (Not the Nine O'Clock News, Spitting Image, The Hitchhiker's Guide, Blackadder, QI etc..) by comedian Richard Herring.


(Starting around 37mins)

Probably the most intelligent and considered discussion of God and faith I have heard in a long time, exposing the hypocrisy and idiocy on both sides of the divide. Not surprisingly he is agnostic (or ignostic as he puts it).

Last edited by Castro; 26.09.2015 at 07:32.
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  #145  
Old 25.09.2015, 16:00
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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If someone holds something sacred, that you don't, then you knowingly step on it, and don't bother apologizing, whether or not it can be proven to be truly sacred, it still makes you an asshole,no?
Also. If you hold something sacred, that someone else doesn't, then you force them to treat it as if it was sacred, whether or not it can be proven to be, it still makes you an asshole, no?
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  #146  
Old 25.09.2015, 16:45
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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In a sense, but we all have things sacred to us. I wouldn't describe myself as spiritual or religious in the normal sense (like 'I'm a christian', or 'I'm muslim' or 'I believe in the flying spaghetti monster')… that's just ridiculous. But at the same time, if someone were to urinate on my dead grandmother's grave, it'd surely provoke an emotional reaction in me. As much as my scientific and rational mind would reason that it is only a normal process, it's just pee on the ground, grand mom is long gone, who cares - it would be a profane intrusion into a sacred space. It triggers the same part of the human brain that would consider a church to be sacred, or a book with a cross on the cover, or a big weird cube in the desert.

This is either a learned cultural response, or hardwired into our DNA - a way to deal with existential anxiety. But it exists...

If you claim nothing is sacred or profane to you, consider this:

On the other thread about Aisha Mohammed's citizenship, you erased the post by Loz1983 with the dead body photos, and stated that you did so because somebody had flagged it. If somebody had flagged DB's kitten photo, would you have erased that one as well?

why not?
About "if someone were to urinate on my dead grandmother's grave" are you sure it is still there? Most countries now dig up graves after some years to make room for somebody new - If that has happened in your case then what is your emotional reaction?
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  #147  
Old 25.09.2015, 16:54
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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Religious survivals in the secular world[edit]
Eliade says that secular man cannot escape his bondage to religious thought. By its very nature, secularism depends on religion for its sense of identity: by resisting sacred models, by insisting that man make history on his own, secular man identifies himself only through opposition to religious thought: "He [secular man] recognizes himself in proportion as he 'frees' and 'purifies' himself from the 'superstitions' of his ancestors."
I do love this sort of wooly-headed thinking. Shows that even recognised 'philosophers' are not immune to programmed ways of thinking. Refusal to even accept that non-religious people can't exist without religion is clearly a nonsense, but a great example of the sort of thinking that constrains some religious groups in their inability to understand and co-exist with unbelievers. "You don't believe what I do, therefore you're deliberately taking an opposite view from me, therefore you're my enemy".
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  #148  
Old 25.09.2015, 16:57
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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About "if someone were to urinate on my dead grandmother's grave" are you sure it is still there? Most countries now dig up graves after some years to make room for somebody new - If that has happened in your case then what is your emotional reaction?
Well, hadn't thought about that. I suppose I wouldn't really care but would still feel that it was a profane act- e.g 'what an asshole'- based on my cultural and psychological bias. Just my opinion...
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  #149  
Old 25.09.2015, 17:06
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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I do love this sort of wooly-headed thinking. Shows that even recognised 'philosophers' are not immune to programmed ways of thinking. Refusal to even accept that non-religious people can't exist without religion is clearly a nonsense, but a great example of the sort of thinking that constrains some religious groups in their inability to understand and co-exist with unbelievers. "You don't believe what I do, therefore you're deliberately taking an opposite view from me, therefore you're my enemy".
For someone who doesn't believe in it, and thinks its nonsense, you sure like to talk about it... Evidence of the existential struggle within?

Why does religion exist across so many different cultures? It fulfills a need - and we are not free from that need just because our logical mind says that the spaghetti monster doesn't exist.
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  #150  
Old 25.09.2015, 20:06
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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For someone who doesn't believe in it, and thinks its nonsense, you sure like to talk about it... Evidence of the existential struggle within?

Why does religion exist across so many different cultures? It fulfills a need - and we are not free from that need just because our logical mind says that the spaghetti monster doesn't exist.
YOU BLASPHEME. Of course the flying spaghetti monster exists, only recently we celebrated HIS day by talking like pirates and drinking lots of beer whilst eating Spaghetti with meatballs in HIS likeness. We couldn't get any strippers though as they cost an arm and a leg here on Malta, but I am sure HE will understand.
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  #151  
Old 25.09.2015, 20:32
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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If someone holds something sacred, that you don't, then you knowingly step on it, and don't bother apologizing, whether or not it can be proven to be truly sacred, it still makes you an asshole,no?


You mean every time we step on a bug we should apologise to the nearest Buddhist in case the insect was actually a reincarnation?
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  #152  
Old 25.09.2015, 21:35
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

Well at least only if they happen to see you doing it, and also explain it was probably a promotion for the bug. Just be decent, you know. No need to be a ..... you know? But that is totally up to the individual.
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  #153  
Old 25.09.2015, 21:36
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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YOU BLASPHEME. Of course the flying spaghetti monster exists, only recently we celebrated HIS day by talking like pirates and drinking lots of beer whilst eating Spaghetti with meatballs in HIS likeness. We couldn't get any strippers though as they cost an arm and a leg here on Malta, but I am sure HE will understand.
I take great offence that you assume the spaghetti monster is MALE of all things! I always imagined it with long, flowing, gooey tomatoey hair, and beautiful, large meatbally eyes. I haven't worked out a body yet, feel free to contribute.
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  #154  
Old 25.09.2015, 22:33
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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I take great offence that you assume the spaghetti monster is MALE of all things! I always imagined it with long, flowing, gooey tomatoey hair, and beautiful, large meatbally eyes. I haven't worked out a body yet, feel free to contribute.
It's simple, the flying spaghetti monster is male, the flying spaghetti monsteress however is female, now and then they go to Russel's teapot 'n B&B and make sweet, sweet ravioli together.
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  #155  
Old 25.09.2015, 23:27
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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It's simple, the flying spaghetti monster is male, the flying spaghetti monsteress however is female, now and then they go to Russel's teapot 'n B&B and make sweet, sweet ravioli together.
So far, at approximately 9.30 upon Friday night, we haves transgressed from Isaacs sacrifice to spaghetti monster/monsteress`s ...par for EF huh?

I am truly embarrassed by you lot!
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  #156  
Old 25.09.2015, 23:33
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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So far, at approximately 9.30 upon Friday night, we haves transgressed from Isaacs sacrifice to spaghetti monster/monsteress`s ...par for EF huh?
I think the point is that there's very little difference between the two.

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I am truly embarrassed by you lot!
Aw, bless. You sit down for a bit, love.
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  #157  
Old 25.09.2015, 23:37
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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So far, at approximately 9.30 upon Friday night, we haves transgressed from Isaacs sacrifice to spaghetti monster/monsteress`s ...par for EF huh?

I am truly embarrassed by you lot!
Hey, what do you expect. It IS Friday after all and this kind of subjects derail into oblivion normally - very surprised how "on topic" this one has stayed so far, Spaghetti Monster, Buddha or whichever deity.

Re "on topic": Surprising how "off the topic" the OP has been since his rant about our staying on topic
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  #158  
Old 25.09.2015, 23:45
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Re: Binding/Sacrifice of Isaac

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Hey, what do you expect. It IS Friday after all and this kind of subjects derail into oblivion normally - very surprised how "on topic" this one has stayed so far, Spaghetti Monster, Buddha or whichever deity.

Re "on topic": Surprising how "off the topic" the OP has been since his rant about our staying on topic
Ja, I do believe he/she has found the answer to the question posed? At the same time witnessed the truly diverse and various beliefs held by those who presently occupy this land of milk and honey?
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