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  #21  
Old 02.11.2015, 10:23
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

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In any case, we'll have to wait and see. Altho I guess since Egypt wants to keep what's left of it's tourism industry, and Russia is afraid of public backlash for supporting Syria militarily, they both have already ruled out terrorism before the investigation even started.
Feel sorry for Egypt and sad for the people on board, it a real tragedy, but I would guess this was more likely a bomb on-board, not a missile as the groups based in Sinai (according to reports) don't have access to that sort of military hardware. While the military controls the airports and tourist areas, I think security is still a shambles. I was in Marsa Alam about a month ago, but security seemed to be more about a show then any sort of functioning screening, I carried through a whole box of batteries I forgot about in my hand luggage, which they apparently should screen for and are meant to confiscate, and nobody batted an eye on the scanners at an UW camera flash that was basically a sealed steel container with cables hanging out of it. and I know others who we were with were also carrying spare mini cylinder in their hold baggage with out declaring them. The problem though would probably be at the baggage handling areas air-side, where somebody could have sneaked in a bag with a bomb.
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  #22  
Old 02.11.2015, 11:13
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

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Or not see.


I very much doubt if the flight recorders will be able to differentiate between bomb and structual failure which means the proof would lie in a chemical analysis of the wreakage (i.e. looking for bomb residue). In light of the above, hands up all those that would trust Egypt or Russia to be completely honest about the results of that....

No, but it will give clues. Which can then be corroborated with other clues - like when explosives leave residue. I have to assume some critical pieces from the wreckage are already being analyzed for this. The wreckage is over land so also a big benefit for the investigators. Of course, this is the ECAA - so who knows what they will conclude due to political pressure (i.e MS990) and already hinted at above.
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  #23  
Old 02.11.2015, 11:22
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

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Of course, this is the ECAA - so who knows what they will conclude due to political pressure (i.e MS990) and already hinted at above.
I very much think Russia is in the lead here since it concerns one of their aircraft and citizens; There are already significant numbers of Russian investigators on the ground securing evidence. Given that the two countries are relatively friendly, I don't see there being much conflict in terms of the final report.
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Old 02.11.2015, 11:30
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

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I very much think Russia is in the lead here since it concerns one of their aircraft and citizens; There are already significant numbers of Russian investigators on the ground securing evidence. Given that the two countries are relatively friendly, I don't see there being much conflict in terms of the final report.
When an accident occurs it is investigated by the government with jurisdiction over the area where a plane goes down. The sole objective of the investigation of an accident or incident is the prevention of accidents and incidents. It is not the purpose to apportion blame or liability.
Investigations are conducted in accordance with the international standards and recommended practices as described in ICAO Annex 13 - Aircraft accident and incident investigation.

In the case of International Waters - then the registered country of the aircraft


...or so I googled
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Old 02.11.2015, 11:44
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

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When an accident occurs it is investigated by the government with jurisdiction over the area where a plane goes down. The sole objective of the investigation of an accident or incident is the prevention of accidents and incidents. It is not the purpose to apportion blame or liability.
Investigations are conducted in accordance with the international standards and recommended practices as described in ICAO Annex 13 - Aircraft accident and incident investigation.
This much is obvious, but what I'm saying is that Egypt will definitely yield to Russia on this. You hinted earlier that the Egyptian Ministry of Aviation (ECAA) could succumb to political pressure, I am saying that the Russians are already in charge of this investigation with only token support from the Egyptians.
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  #26  
Old 02.11.2015, 11:45
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

It was obviously a Dutch supplied Anti Aircraft Missile.
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  #27  
Old 02.11.2015, 11:49
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

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It was obviously a Dutch supplied Anti Aircraft Missile.
I'll go with pitot tube or stall/pilot error. Usually the first guess is correct...
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  #28  
Old 02.11.2015, 20:30
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

Seems the aircraft belonged to an Irish company who leased it to the Russians.
The aircraft passed its safety checks this Spring according to the Irish Regulator.

Consequently the accident investigation should be performed by the Egyptians and the Irish; no requirement for Russian involvement.
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  #29  
Old 02.11.2015, 20:31
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

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I'll go with pitot tube or stall/pilot error. Usually the first guess is correct...
Seems it broke up in mid air
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  #30  
Old 02.11.2015, 20:50
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

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Seems it broke up in mid air
I know.
emoticon = sarcasm.
read first page of thread- you'll get it
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  #31  
Old 02.11.2015, 21:00
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

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Or not see.


I very much doubt if the flight recorders will be able to differentiate between bomb and structual failure which means the proof would lie in a chemical analysis of the wreakage (i.e. looking for bomb residue). In light of the above, hands up all those that would trust Egypt or Russia to be completely honest about the results of that....

It was an AIRBUS plane (Germany/France/Spain) and the producer is always taking part ifn in the investigations.
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  #32  
Old 03.11.2015, 00:47
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

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Seems it broke up in mid air

After it got hit with >>>> speculating
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  #33  
Old 03.11.2015, 07:27
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

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I'll go with pitot tube or stall/pilot error. Usually the first guess is correct...
Debris scattered over a wide area means it broke up on flight.
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  #34  
Old 04.11.2015, 09:36
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

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A senior U.S. defense official said on November 2 that infrared images of the area taken when the Airbus A321-200 was in the air detected a heat flash that suggests the plane was destroyed internally by a bomb or a fuel-tank explosion.
"There was an explosion of some kind" and "the plane disintegrated at a very high altitude," the official told U.S. television network NBC. He said there was "no evidence a missile of any kind brought down the plane."
http://www.rferl.org/content/satelli.../27341839.html

US satellites detected a "heat flash" at the time of the break-up, which leads more substance to the theory of a bomb on-board. If the tail-strike was improperly repaired and the planes tail broke off, would fuel-tanks still explode, or otherwise cause a burst of heat detectable by satellites?
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  #35  
Old 04.11.2015, 10:41
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

Russia's preferred reason is non mechanical/structural fault, Egypt preferred reason is non terrorist action.

The published reason would be the result of hand twisting behind the scenes.
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  #36  
Old 04.11.2015, 11:42
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

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Russia's preferred reason is non mechanical/structural fault, Egypt preferred reason is non terrorist action.

The published reason would be the result of hand twisting behind the scenes.

I agree
But I doubt the manufacturer Airbus would support "non mechanical/structural fault"! This would involve a detailed analysis and description plus probably an expensive mandatory inspection of all current flying 321's.


If this 321 had the optional fuel tank in the rear underfloor hold then I suppose an explosion caused by breakup at the rear is possible but aviation fuel is not easy to set fire to.
If it only had fuel tanks in the wings then much less likely?


A bomb in the rear underfloor hold would certainly give these symptoms if it had the optional tank
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  #37  
Old 04.11.2015, 19:13
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

Could have been a bomb. Security at the airport is being checked and flights delayed.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34724604
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  #38  
Old 04.11.2015, 21:40
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

UK have stopped all flights to sharm.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-russian-crash
Rumours that Ireland and the Netherlands are doing the same.
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  #39  
Old 04.11.2015, 21:43
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

UK flights to Sharm el-Sheikh have been suspended

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34724604
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  #40  
Old 04.11.2015, 22:16
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Re: Russian airliner missing over Egypt's Sinai peninsula

Was just looking at Edelweiss fights for end of Nov beginning Dec..think I might hold off a few days now.

Just as a note to the UK articles..Russian fights leave from a different terminal to British flights and the security is super lax there
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