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Old 04.11.2015, 00:11
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Land of the free

In the decades before 1998 the USA death rate of middle aged whites was falling about 2 per cent per year; similar to other Western economies.
However after 1998 (in USA only) the death rate has risen around 0.5% per year due to drug related deaths (including prescription drugs), mostly amongst the poorer educated with limited prospects.
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Old 04.11.2015, 00:27
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Re: Land of the free

The increase is seems to be mostly among white middle aged men with a high school or less level of education. I think these are the the people who've been most impacted by the loss of "blue collar" type jobs.

The drug thing is very sad. Lots of people became addicted to prescription pain meds like oxycontin, and then the price of these meds shot up. heroin is a cheap replacement and thus, lots of suburban whites are heroin addicts. And lots of bad heroin out there... People are dying of heroin overdoses in the suburbs.
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Old 04.11.2015, 00:37
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Re: Land of the free

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The increase is seems to be mostly among white middle aged men with a high school or less level of education. I think these are the the people who've been most impacted by the loss of "blue collar" type jobs.

The drug thing is very sad. Lots of people became addicted to prescription pain meds like oxycontin, and then the price of these meds shot up. heroin is a cheap replacement and thus, lots of suburban whites are heroin addicts. And lots of bad heroin out there... People are dying of heroin overdoses in the suburbs.
It is like a scene out of a B movie science fiction film ;(

circa 40,000 extra deaths per year tragic.
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Old 04.11.2015, 01:04
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Re: Land of the free

yeah i saw a documentary made for al jazeera america on this topic, it's astonishing they're not doing anything, the fda is even approving a more addictive painkiller. and to think that those are forbidden or very limited in europe.
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Old 04.11.2015, 01:11
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Re: Land of the free

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yeah i saw a documentary made for al jazeera america on this topic, it's astonishing they're not doing anything, the fda is even approving a more addictive painkiller. and to think that those are forbidden or very limited in europe.
Al jazeera, ahh. It must be 100% true then.
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Old 04.11.2015, 01:36
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Re: Land of the free

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Al jazeera, ahh. It must be 100% true then.

I don't know about Al Jazeera as a source, but I've seen it discussed in some US media, and a friend in the US who is a physician said pretty much the same thing - about the drugs and heroin.
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Old 04.11.2015, 12:51
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Re: Land of the free

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Al jazeera, ahh. It must be 100% true then.
Isn't it most odd that the numbers started rising immediately after Al Jazeera was founded in 1996. I bet they're behind the changed death rates.

They probably also made sure that the UN troops in Afghanistan, who've been there for 15 years now, have orders to not interfere with afghani opium production, which is the base for heroin. Afghanistan produces 95% of all illegal opium worldwide, they produced virtually nothing during the short Taliban regime before UN troops invaded. Honi soît qui mal y pense.
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Old 04.11.2015, 13:02
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Re: Land of the free

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Al jazeera, ahh. It must be 100% true then.
Are you aware of the many awards Al Jazeera has been presented for the quality of its news and presenters?

Or did you also think that Osama was the president of the U.S?
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Old 04.11.2015, 13:06
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Re: Land of the free

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Are you aware of the many awards Al Jazeera has been presented for the quality of its news and presenters?

Or did you also think that Osama was the president of the U.S?
I can't believe the military assassinated their own president and dumped his body at sea.
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Old 04.11.2015, 13:08
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Re: Land of the free

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The increase is seems to be mostly among white middle aged men with a high school or less level of education. I think these are the the people who've been most impacted by the loss of "blue collar" type jobs.
Interesting note regarding having a job. Some of the cultural changes that have occurred during this time is in regards to the role of men. Leading up to this, American men played a prominent role in the world in their own psyche, just about on a mythical level. They beat nazism, GI "saved" Europe, went to the Moon, got everyone into a single family home with a two car garage, a swimming pool, and everyone had a refrigerator and television, etc.

A lot of this started to change with the feminist movement. The men really weren't as important as they were made out to be afterall. Industrial jobs declined. And in the corporate world, women were getting hired in greater proportion to men, probably because they were more adept politically and easier to work with. So as American men started to lose the importance of their roles, they also started to lose their own sense of purpose and relevance.

I suspect he death rate has something to do with the men's sense of their purpose and direction for living.
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Old 04.11.2015, 13:21
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Re: Land of the free

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Interesting note regarding having a job. Some of the cultural changes that have occurred during this time is in regards to the role of men. Leading up to this, American men played a prominent role in the world in their own psyche, just about on a mythical level. They beat nazism, GI "saved" Europe, went to the Moon, got everyone into a single family home with a two car garage, a swimming pool, and everyone had a refrigerator and television, etc.

A lot of this started to change with the feminist movement. The men really weren't as important as they were made out to be afterall. Industrial jobs declined. And in the corporate world, women were getting hired in greater proportion to men, probably because they were more adept politically and easier to work with. So as American men started to lose the importance of their roles, they also started to lose their own sense of purpose and relevance.

I suspect he death rate has something to do with the men's sense of their purpose and direction for living.
I guess all this has to do with the transition to a post industrial society.

In early societies, men hunted and women farmed. In a hunter's mindset there is success or failure, because you find and kill your prey, or it gets away. There is nothing between. On a farm you can have an OK crop or a slightly better crop or a slightly worse crop but there are lots of intermediate levels of success and the extremes don't really play.

Winning WW2 and landing on the moon were typical hunter goals. You win or you lose. There was no compromise. Today's challenges are more in between stuff. How can you measure the human effect on global warming and whether or not attempts to mitigate that are succesful or pure fantasy?

So a challenge to men these days is to either reprogram to more differentiated levels of measuring success, or to find challenges that have more measurable outcomes. Many men waste away in front of the TV watching sports, one of the few areas where there are still clear cut win or lose outcomes. But an over absorption with this is dangerous and men need to come back into the real world.
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Old 04.11.2015, 13:30
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Re: Land of the free

And even your movie actors playing American icons are not from the U.S.

Spiderman and Batman for starters.

No wonder the average U.S. male feels impotent.
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Old 04.11.2015, 13:38
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Re: Land of the free

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I guess all this has to do with the transition to a post industrial society.

In early societies, men hunted and women farmed. In a hunter's mindset there is success or failure, because you find and kill your prey, or it gets away. There is nothing between. On a farm you can have an OK crop or a slightly better crop or a slightly worse crop but there are lots of intermediate levels of success and the extremes don't really play.

Winning WW2 and landing on the moon were typical hunter goals. You win or you lose. There was no compromise. Today's challenges are more in between stuff. How can you measure the human effect on global warming and whether or not attempts to mitigate that are succesful or pure fantasy?

So a challenge to men these days is to either reprogram to more differentiated levels of measuring success, or to find challenges that have more measurable outcomes. Many men waste away in front of the TV watching sports, one of the few areas where there are still clear cut win or lose outcomes. But an over absorption with this is dangerous and men need to come back into the real world.
Well, they sort of resurged right after 9/11. All of a sudden, they found renewed purpose. I think that is one reasoned they grabbed the opportunity with the war on terror, and just could not let go. They have overplayed it, and the results speak for themselves.

I think they were accustomed to a more visceral role that is easily marginalised by changing the conversation. They lost the plot, and they got lost in the conversation. The world is now a lot more sophisticated, and they really need to learn that sophistication.

For an indication of where they are at on an intellectual level, just check in on one of the GOP debates. I'm afraid they lost the plot and are trying to lead from the past. They need to be more proactive towards the future instead of reactive from the past. I'm not encouraged they will turnaround in time for the next election. I may have to learn how to swallow saying Madame President Clinton.
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Old 04.11.2015, 14:22
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Re: Land of the free

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yeah i saw a documentary made for al jazeera america on this topic, it's astonishing they're not doing anything, the fda is even approving a more addictive painkiller.
The idea that these addictions and extra deaths are due to medical use of prescription painkillers is frankly ludicrous. If there is a issue with them it would be that existing drug users, or suppliers thereto, are able to go to many different doctors and get prescriptions from them all.

Don't be fooled into thinking that controlled medical use, even over a period of months, will turn someone into an addict. That simply is not true, as I and many other patients treated for extreme trauma can personally attest.

The underlying problem is that there are so many people for whom the temporary release of an opiate fix represents a better life than they have. And that is truly tragic.

Fix society, fix the system, remove the problem.

EDIT: Just saw this bit
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and to think that those are forbidden or very limited in europe.
Which painkillers would this be that aren't available in Europe then?
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Last edited by Ace1; 04.11.2015 at 14:28. Reason: Added comment
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Old 04.11.2015, 14:24
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Re: Land of the free

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I can't believe the military assassinated their own president and dumped his body at sea.
If you ever watched Fox News, that's exactly what they'd like to do with the current president
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Old 04.11.2015, 14:50
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Re: Land of the free

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Spiderman and Batman for starters.
I've always taken those characters for gay, especially Robin. Who the hell else runs around in tights?




At this rate, even James Bond may very well be gay sometime in some future release.
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Old 04.11.2015, 15:06
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Re: Land of the free

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Well, they sort of resurged right after 9/11. All of a sudden, they found renewed purpose. I think that is one reasoned they grabbed the opportunity with the war on terror, and just could not let go. They have overplayed it, and the results speak for themselves.
I think declaring a war on terror, against an as yet to be defined enemy in which victory or defeat are yet to be defined goalposts is not a yes / no game but one with plenty of scope for semantically twisting things around and scope for claiming success and failure on insubstantial achievements.

So it may have been a very martial and drum beating moment, but it wasn't a classic manly hunter moment, even if many mistook it for that at the time.
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Old 04.11.2015, 15:11
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Re: Land of the free

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I think declaring a war on terror, against an as yet to be defined enemy in which victory or defeat are yet to be defined goalposts is not a yes / no game but one with plenty of scope for semantically twisting things around and scope for claiming success and failure on insubstantial achievements.

So it may have been a very martial and drum beating moment, but it wasn't a classic manly hunter moment, even if many mistook it for that at the time.
It was basically signing onto a blank check without any clear objective, and no real measure of success. It was a way for the government to coalesce support at a very emotional time. It was so useful for them that way, they never defined a criteria for success. Naturally, it continues in perpetuity until failure.

I think the men got renewed jolt of purpose out of that one, for a time, while it lasted.
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Old 04.11.2015, 22:37
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Re: Land of the free

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The idea that these addictions and extra deaths are due to medical use of prescription painkillers is frankly ludicrous. If there is a issue with them it would be that existing drug users, or suppliers thereto, are able to go to many different doctors and get prescriptions from them all.

Don't be fooled into thinking that controlled medical use, even over a period of months, will turn someone into an addict. That simply is not true, as I and many other patients treated for extreme trauma can personally attest.

The underlying problem is that there are so many people for whom the temporary release of an opiate fix represents a better life than they have. And that is truly tragic.

Fix society, fix the system, remove the problem.

EDIT: Just saw this bit


Which painkillers would this be that aren't available in Europe then?

Not quite. As you might know, many Americans have substandard health coverage. Many people have been prescribed painkillers, or perhaps they are obtained illegally. Recently, the price of these drugs increased, and increased above affordability for many of these people with crap insurance, or just off the street. Heroin is a much less expensive alternative, easily available, and unfortunately, inconsistent in quality.

You are right, generally speaking, that carefully supervised in a medical setting, many people do not become addicts. But there is still a lot of abuse. And perhaps not everyone is carefully monitored, and not all patients return for follow up, prescription etc. heroin is cheaper.
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Old 04.11.2015, 22:43
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Re: Land of the free

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At this rate, even James Bond may very well be gay sometime in some future release.
Did you miss the contributions that Roger Moore made to that franchise?
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