Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #781  
Old 19.11.2015, 17:20
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Basel-Stadt
Posts: 509
Groaned at 33 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 427 Times in 234 Posts
snapsterone has earned the respect of manysnapsterone has earned the respect of manysnapsterone has earned the respect of many
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:
I suppose this is where Anonymous comes into play. That's right up their street.

Who knows, maybe all these jihadi wannabes will end up getting furked by 72 virgins.
They should be so lucky.
Reply With Quote
  #782  
Old 19.11.2015, 17:22
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:
View Post
They should be so lucky.
Whoosh!
Reply With Quote
  #783  
Old 19.11.2015, 17:29
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,500
Groaned at 971 Times in 686 Posts
Thanked 17,486 Times in 6,852 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:
Not with an attitude like that there won't be


I think being at war with a country is a significantly different concept to being at war with an ideology.


Naziism was based in Germany and stopping it was a matter of taking Germany. ISIS/L has no home country, and is spread diffusely throughout the Middle East and beyond, with agents, apparently, everywhere. We can't win this war with bombs and boots on the ground.


Shooting leaders might feel good at the time, and in this instance there wasn't a great deal else to be done, but making martyrs of them doesn't do us any favours in the long run.


Celebrating killing them just strengthens the resolve of ISIS and their potential followers and works as a recuitment poster...look at the infidel celebrating the killing of muslims like us, we must fight them.
i don't think it matters whether you are war with a country or at war with an ideology in the respect that violence will be an inevitable outcome. If people suddenly stopped fighting ISIS now, laid down their arms and tried to non-violently fight them the result would be simply catastrophic. They would steamroll in and over anyone and everyone until their power base was unquestioned, and form there they would then seek to expand and push their agenda further.

Education and integration will of course cut down extremism to a large extent breeding within our own societies, but it won't eradicate it from continually arising in other countries that are strongly theology-based and do not agree with our Western ideals.

Violence is sometimes a necessary tool and response.

Anyway, I guess we can as gentlemen just agree to disagree either way in this instance.
Reply With Quote
  #784  
Old 19.11.2015, 17:50
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Indeed, let's have a chat over a beer and a bacon butty, like civilised adults.

That'll show them.
Reply With Quote
  #785  
Old 19.11.2015, 17:58
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,400
Groaned at 434 Times in 338 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:
View Post
I already have, trying to find some concrete numbers for on the street protests, but very little. Lots of reports of Muslim groups/councils, etc, condeming them, but of on the street protests, one report in India (200) and I found another in Ireland (300). Compare that to the 3,500 protesters in Copenhagen alone over the cartoons. In Pakistan the number was around 50,000. Anyone heard of 50,000 Muslims in Pakistan protesting on the street against ISIS?
I didn't hear of such an amount of people protesting, no.

I don't understand why it is so important for you to have this amount of Muslims in the street protesting. I think they are doing many kind of protests. Like talking about it in the mosques, observing who is at risk, working with the police, trying to make a difference in their community..

I still don't know what you want more. Going in the street, screaming slogans with giant boards is nice on tv but doesn't do anything to change the situation. Actions in daily lives, changes and support is what will make a difference.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #786  
Old 19.11.2015, 18:04
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,885
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Yes, but most of us don't go to the mosque and don't see, or read, that the Muslim community is doing anything at all to prevent their young people being led astray.

It might be in the Muslim interest if they did openly protest about Muslim violence, the "man in the street" might then become more sympathetic. At present we only see, or assume, there is complete apathy.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Sbrinz for this useful post:
  #787  
Old 19.11.2015, 18:08
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,400
Groaned at 434 Times in 338 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but most of us don't go to the mosque and don't see, or read, that the Muslim community is doing anything at all to prevent their young people being led astray.

It might be in the Muslim interest if they did openly protest about Muslim violence, the "man in the street" might then become more sympathetic. At present we only see, or assume, there is complete apathy.
Alright maybe for the man in the street isn't that obvious but on this forum? I've been repeating it over and over again with videos, links and what not! They are very easy to find them!!

I'm not posting these things just for the fun of it, I'm actually doing it because I think it can help people here to understand it.
Reply With Quote
  #788  
Old 19.11.2015, 18:33
Ace1's Avatar
A modal singularity
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins, VS (and Alsace)
Posts: 8,481
Groaned at 346 Times in 221 Posts
Thanked 14,172 Times in 6,210 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:
View Post
It might be in the Muslim interest if they did openly protest about Muslim violence, the "man in the street" might then become more sympathetic. At present we only see, or assume, there is complete apathy.
Such an assumption says more about the attitude of anyone so doing than that of the Muslim community.

Quote:
View Post
Alright maybe for the man in the street isn't that obvious but on this forum? I've been repeating it over and over again with videos, links and what not! They are very easy to find them!!
There's none so blind as they who will not see...
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Ace1 for this useful post:
  #789  
Old 19.11.2015, 18:50
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,592
Groaned at 401 Times in 346 Posts
Thanked 17,117 Times in 9,227 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:
Indeed, let's have a chat over a beer and a bacon butty, like civilised adults.

That'll show them.
Politically correct would be a vegetarian butty!
Reply With Quote
  #790  
Old 19.11.2015, 18:50
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Basel-Stadt
Posts: 509
Groaned at 33 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 427 Times in 234 Posts
snapsterone has earned the respect of manysnapsterone has earned the respect of manysnapsterone has earned the respect of many
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:
View Post
Yes, but most of us don't go to the mosque and don't see, or read, that the Muslim community is doing anything at all to prevent their young people being led astray.

It might be in the Muslim interest if they did openly protest about Muslim violence, the "man in the street" might then become more sympathetic. At present we only see, or assume, there is complete apathy.
Most of "us" don`t but 1.5 billion or so do
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank snapsterone for this useful post:
  #791  
Old 19.11.2015, 18:57
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Large part of ISIS appeal was how it was able to take so much territory in so little time. They were able to shock and awe a fake Iraqi army, and nobody really had any resolve to try to defend desert rocks and sand. So impressionable young men saw a divine destiny in joining ISIS.

Attacking their stronghold in Syria/Iraq is important for one reason, to demonstrate that ISIS is not backed by a supernatural power. To demonstrate its defeat. To cast doubt on those who are thinking of joining a divinely led movement.

These military strikes in Syria may very well accomplish more in persuading impressionable people not to join, than all the ineffective circular arguments in the world about ideology and religion. If it really has to be proven in reality in this way, then bombs away. Reasoning has already given plenty of opportunity.

Last edited by Phos; 19.11.2015 at 20:20.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #792  
Old 19.11.2015, 19:10
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,592
Groaned at 401 Times in 346 Posts
Thanked 17,117 Times in 9,227 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

My view is that ISIS is a criminal organisation pretending to be a terrorist organisation!
Someone at the top is making billions from everything from selling stolen oil to making shop owners pay "protection" money.

They talk about starting a Caliphate but in reality they have been sitting on more or less the same piece of real estate for a long time concentrating on maximising their income from the location instead of expanding their area of influence!
From time to time they stage something like Paris which probably they cynically plan as publicity and a way to attract more idiots to join up as unpaid tax collectors; not as the jihadists they fantasise to be!
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #793  
Old 19.11.2015, 19:57
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,687
Groaned at 142 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 4,526 Times in 1,799 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:
View Post
These military strikes in Syria may very well accomplish more in persuading impressionable people not to join, than all the ineffective circular arguments in the world about ideology and religion. If it really has to be proved in reality in this way, then bombs away. Reasoning was already given plenty of opportunity.
We can agree to disagree. Just don't beat me up

If bombing the desert stops ISIS for now, what about in the future? the next ISIS, AQ, etc. ?

The bombs won't destroy ideas. And as (i think it was you who) mentioned, for each extremist killed ten more are created. It's a damn hydra.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank pilatus1 for this useful post:
  #794  
Old 19.11.2015, 20:19
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:
View Post
We can agree to disagree. Just don't beat me up

If bombing the desert stops ISIS for now, what about in the future? the next ISIS, AQ, etc. ?

The bombs won't destroy ideas. And as (i think it was you who) mentioned, for each extremist killed ten more are created. It's a damn hydra.
I wouldn't expect bombings alone to defeat them either. But weakening them is a step in the right direction.

At the moment, all they have is a psychological edge. They tout that edge as a mandate from their god, and it attracts like minded people to join them Syria, many from Europe. Putting that claim of divine backing to a test would certainly clear that up, answer many questions, and deactivate the mind control they hold over their own people. That psychological edge can be broken. It already has, it just needs more time and pressure to fall apart.
Reply With Quote
  #795  
Old 19.11.2015, 20:33
Nil's Avatar
Nil Nil is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 10,400
Groaned at 434 Times in 338 Posts
Thanked 16,045 Times in 6,322 Posts
Nil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond reputeNil has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:
View Post
We can agree to disagree. Just don't beat me up

If bombing the desert stops ISIS for now, what about in the future? the next ISIS, AQ, etc. ?

The bombs won't destroy ideas. And as (i think it was you who) mentioned, for each extremist killed ten more are created. It's a damn hydra.
Education can do that and international support. Here and there.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Nil for this useful post:
  #796  
Old 19.11.2015, 21:03
pilatus1's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 1,687
Groaned at 142 Times in 98 Posts
Thanked 4,526 Times in 1,799 Posts
pilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond reputepilatus1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:
View Post
I wouldn't expect bombings alone to defeat them either. But weakening them is a step in the right direction.

At the moment, all they have is a psychological edge. They tout that edge as a mandate from their god, and it attracts like minded people to join them Syria, many from Europe. Putting that claim of divine backing to a test would certainly clear that up, answer many questions, and deactivate the mind control they hold over their own people. That psychological edge can be broken. It already has, it just needs more time and pressure to fall apart.
I wonder if bombing will crack the pyschological edge, or only 'strengthen their resolve' like Dubbya Bush used to say. lol.

I usually wouldn't feel compelled to spout ideological arguments about peace, religion, etc. - but was rather unnerved this morning by what one of my coworkers stated as the 'correct answer' -

"We need to line up every muslim in the world and kill every last damn one of those motherfunkers!"

reminded me of the 'final solution'

...and is exactly the mentality that ISIS hopes to provoke

Last edited by pilatus1; 19.11.2015 at 21:27.
Reply With Quote
  #797  
Old 19.11.2015, 22:04
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,592
Groaned at 401 Times in 346 Posts
Thanked 17,117 Times in 9,227 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

I notice most of the photographs of the terrorists show them clean shaven?
I thought beards were de rigueur?

Maybe they were old photos or attempts at disguises?
Reply With Quote
  #798  
Old 19.11.2015, 22:25
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,373
Groaned at 77 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Bombing ISIS will only achieve limited tactical results. Only a ground invasion will really tip ISIS backwards. I don't think anyone, EU, US or Arab is willing to commit a ground force large enough. And then even if they did, and routed ISIS on the battle field, then they would just blend into the population and it will be a repeat of the "insurgency" from 2003-2013 against the US forces in Iraq.

The issue is an Arab/Muslim problem and needs an Arab/Muslim solution. Some kind of "awakening", revolution (or evolution), a reformation...I really don't know...but it will have to come from within themselves, not from Europeans or Americans.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank esto for this useful post:
  #799  
Old 20.11.2015, 00:18
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 8,450
Groaned at 109 Times in 84 Posts
Thanked 6,083 Times in 3,407 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Well, like Vladimir put it very eloquently ...
Attached Thumbnails
shootings-explosions-paris-image.jpg  
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank jacek for this useful post:
  #800  
Old 20.11.2015, 08:30
Dechen01's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Luzern
Posts: 273
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 235 Times in 133 Posts
Dechen01 is considered knowledgeableDechen01 is considered knowledgeableDechen01 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Shootings and the explosions in Paris

Quote:
View Post
Well, like Vladimir put it very eloquently ...
http://www.englishforum.ch/attachmen...1&d=1448001036
Attached Thumbnails
shootings-explosions-paris-kasparov.jpg  
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Dechen01 for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Belgium police shooting in Verviers & explosions Sbrinz International affairs/politics 4 15.01.2015 21:56
Explosions? Village Idiot Daily life 35 11.04.2014 09:47
Where are the Cheap and Cheerfull Hotels in Paris? AussieNanny General off-topic 7 05.03.2011 15:40
The Cumbria shootings eng_ch International affairs/politics 8 05.06.2010 00:55
Looking for someone I met in Kyoto and Tokyo and Paris shine General off-topic 1 16.05.2008 15:21


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0