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-   -   All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe) (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/244043-all-about-muslims-wake-terrorist-attacks-europe.html)

greenmount 09.04.2018 21:37

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 2932679)
The interviewer in the studio was talking to somebody over the phone. A woman, I don't know if she was a journalist or just a person who happened to be on site and able to speak Romanian and so got interviewed. She mostly described what had happened, the confusion, that people were dead, that the police were cordoning the area off. And then at the end the interviewer asked whether they know anything about the guy who drove the van, or his reasons, and she said, yeah, he was a Kurdish guy who is on the police watch list. They didn't discuss it further. It was the end of the clip.

Now I expect in reality, the police wouldn't release a fact like that so early so it was probably hearsay that was spreading on the streets, which might also explain why the clip was pulled so quickly. Neverthless, it is strange that it was pulled rather than some apology or correction being offered.

But it wouold explain why there was such a massive condemnation in the media of people implying there was a middle-eastern link without anybody being reported as having said that. No counter-reaction with reaction.

Still don't understand how this stuff could get viral anywhere else apart from those 15 minutes fame on Youtube before being pulled out. Or if someone even based their suppositions on that foreign woman's relating from the scene, in an interview for a foreign channel, in a foreign language. It's a weird, complicated story, but it could have a tiny bit of "truth element" in there - the interview. I bet there were videos and comments filmed by some locals too, it's simply impossible not to...why choose to give more credibility to what someone says on an obscure tv channel from another country is beyond imagination. If really so, the media is much shittier than we ever thought.
There were rumours because they were coming from the Germans themselves, not because some video on youtube in a foreign language that probably no German even watched. As if it was hard to make a supposition or connect the dots - Kurdish manifestation on the same day plus attack etc etc
Maybe it was just a spicy element in a news show... How credible if nobody else in the press quoted this interview? Probably your Romanian friends watched that show, but let me tell you it wasn't that impactful since nobody else in the press made the same suppositions. That many people in Europe thought it was an islamic attack without checking the facts first is obvious even in this thread...I don't doubt that Erdogan wanted really badly to be a Kurdish attacker though, or that he made comments exactly like Trump did on "what happens in Sweden"...

Lol, with all sympathy for you and your stories - you deserve the equivalent of a youtube pull out for these anecdotes. :)

kriss kross 09.04.2018 22:10

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 2932606)
Keep getting updates for this thread, yet nobody has been shot, except for some guy in Romford, but I doubt certain people are interested in that as this has become yet another of kk's immigration threads. *yawn*

Ah ok, so when it was you dropping shitty anecdotes and when it was about 'kriss kross is a racist' it was all good, but when I talk back to defend myself suddenly it's "yet another one of kk's immigration threads"

Guest 09.04.2018 22:14

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932699)
Ah ok, so when it was you dropping shitty anecdotes and when it was about 'kriss kross is a racist' it was all good, but when I talk back to defend myself suddenly it's yet another one of kk's immigration threads.

What are you on about? :confused:

marton 09.04.2018 22:57

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2932449)
So you think it will go from less then 5% today, to more then 51%?

And this will happen without any of those 51% adopting any aspect of swiss culture?

And all of those 51% will be as observant as say, Saudi Arabia?

And despite the fact that most of the current 5% have already adopted swiss culture?

And that this will happen without the number of Muslims ever stabilizing or going down?

And that this will happen so quickly, that it will cause civil unrest?

Id better let my Muslim friends know they're letting the side down by not having 15 kids each.

My, what an imagination you do have...

An important point is that the Fertility rate, total (births per woman) has been falling rapidly in Arab countries for many years whereas in the euro area the rate has been roughly the same.

Source (UN data)

Another interesting fact is that the fertility rates (births per woman) of Muslims born in Europe (second generation) is much lower than of the Muslim immigrants.

Source

It is believed that the easy access to sexual education and contraception in Europe causes the fertility rate to decline towards local levels.

J2488 10.04.2018 07:43

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2932718)
An important point is that the Fertility rate, total (births per woman) has been falling rapidly in Arab countries for many years whereas in the euro area the rate has been roughly the same.

Source (UN data)

Another interesting fact is that the fertility rates (births per woman) of Muslims born in Europe (second generation) is much lower than of the Muslim immigrants.

Source

It is believed that the easy access to sexual education and contraception in Europe causes the fertility rate to decline towards local levels.

Urbanisation plays a large part too. In most cases, immigrants from rural areas move to urban areas. The first generation maintains a high birth rate but the second generation doesnt, simply because they can't afford or support so many kids. By the third generation the birth rate is the same as the native population.

J2488 10.04.2018 07:46

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

What are you on about? :confused:
No one really knows, most of the time.

greenmount 10.04.2018 10:44

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 2932606)
Keep getting updates for this thread, yet nobody has been shot, except for some guy in Romford

We're on another thread now :rofl: Equally unrelated to what happened in Münster, Germany. I think some people really enjoy stirring the pot a little..

Elu 10.04.2018 11:02

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932641)
I find it fascinating that Europe has struggled to integrate small percentages of Muslims yet you're confident that as their numbers grow this task will somehow become more achievable and their values will somehow align more with Europe's.


I'm convinced Europe will learn from past mistakes. For example: This culture of unconditional welcome will not happen again.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932641)
Let's look at one example that you spoke of as "hell no, not in my country":

In this scenario you describe above, you explain that under your values, marriage and relations with a child is wrong and unacceptable.

Given that their holy prophet, whom they hold as an example of the best human being, married and had relations with a child, what do you think happens in this idealistic amalgamated system that you speak of?

Do they put your values above the values of Muhammad? Or do you meet in the middle and settle at say 14 years old? How does it play out?


I see little to no chances to change the mindsets of immigrants with such extreme values. They will have to accept that those things are different here or learn it the hard way through strict and severe sanctions.

I bet my money on their second generation if and when they are given the opportunity to be socialised in our multicultural society. An example of what I mean was posted by marton some posts above --> decreasing birth rates.

greenmount 10.04.2018 11:08

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elu (Post 2932828)
I bet my money on their second generation if and when they are given the opportunity to be socialised in our multicultural society. An example of what I mean was posted by marton some posts above --> decreasing birth rates.

You know what, I think talking about other people's fertility is very patronising. I can understand some concerns in regards with demographics but....seriously?

Elu 10.04.2018 11:14

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 2932833)
You know what, I think talking about other people's fertility is very patronising. I can understand some concerns in regards with demographics but....seriously?



I was not talking about fertility, i was talking about birth rates. One is a biological subject the other i'd say more socio-cultural?
I fail to see where my statement was patronising (I translate patronising with herablassend, bevormundend).

J2488 10.04.2018 11:20

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elu (Post 2932841)
I was not talking about fertility, i was talking about birth rates. One is a biological subject the other i'd say more socio-cultural?
I fail to see where my statement was patronising (I translate patronising with herablassend, bevormundend).



So you accept that second and third generation immigrants are integrating into the socio-clutural norms of their host countries?


All is good, then.

Guest 10.04.2018 11:22

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2932848)
So you accept that second and third generation immigrants are integrating into the socio-clutural norms of their host countries?

They're not. HTH.

kriss kross 10.04.2018 11:23

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elu (Post 2932828)
I see little to no chances to change the mindsets of immigrants with such extreme values. They will have to accept that those things are different here or learn it the hard way through strict and severe sanctions.

So Muslims who believe in marriage of a girl who has reached mensus, regardless of age, have "extreme values"?

J2488 10.04.2018 11:25

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz1983 (Post 2932851)
They're not. HTH.





Then explain the reduced birth rate.


HTH.

J2488 10.04.2018 11:26

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932853)
So Muslims who believe in marriage of a girl who has reached mensus, regardless of age, have "extreme values"?



can you provide any evidence that marriage between grown men and underage girls is in fact, widespread and common among the muslim community?


no?


thought not.

Elu 10.04.2018 11:30

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2932848)
So you accept that second and third generation immigrants are integrating into the socio-clutural norms of their host countries?

All is good, then.



Yes they do, but its not an automated process and needs a lot of work from their side and we as a host have to provide opportunities and boundaries.

Elu 10.04.2018 11:32

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932853)
So Muslims who believe in marriage of a girl who has reached mensus, regardless of age, have "extreme values"?



Compared to our local values yes, i would consider them extreme.

J2488 10.04.2018 11:35

Re: A shooting just happened in ( *fill in the blank * )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elu (Post 2932864)
Compared to our local values yes, i would consider them extreme.

I think most people would and do.


But Im waiting for our resident muslim hater, KK, to provide some evidence that its happening all the time within the muslim community in europe...




...God forbid he should make a conclusion about muslims based on incorrect or incomplete evidence. That would be about as bad as blaming muslims for a vehicle ramming attack despite it being known widely that the perpetrator had nothing at all to do with muslims...right KK?

kriss kross 10.04.2018 11:38

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elu (Post 2932864)
Compared to our local values yes, i would consider them extreme.

I think you may find that these 'extreme views' that a girl may be married once she has reached mensus, are rather prevalent in the Muslim community.

J2488 10.04.2018 11:40

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932873)
I think you may find that these 'extreme views' that a girl may be married once she has reached mensus, are rather prevalent in the Muslim community.



I think i may well find that, if you were able to provide any evidence supporting that suppposition.


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