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-   -   All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe) (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/244043-all-about-muslims-wake-terrorist-attacks-europe.html)

Elu 10.04.2018 11:42

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932873)
I think you may find that these 'extreme views' that a girl may be married once she has reached mensus, are rather prevalent in the Muslim community.


Yes, and you know my opinion about it, what do you want more?

kriss kross 10.04.2018 11:43

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2932869)
But Im waiting for our resident muslim hater, KK, to provide some evidence that its happening all the time within the muslim community in europe...

It is irrelevant, I'm not discussing the prevalence of the practice, I'm discussing the justification for it in the Islamic world - and ultimately, whether Muslims would accept and adopt Western views of child marriage over their own Prophets.

J2488 10.04.2018 11:43

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
He wants you to comment on how disgusting all these muslims are. Thats pretty much the only reason he frequents this thread.

kriss kross 10.04.2018 11:44

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elu (Post 2932879)
Yes, and you know my opinion about it, what do you want more?

I just wanted to hear you agree that the majority of Muslims do in fact hold 'extreme views' in the European sense.

J2488 10.04.2018 11:44

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932881)
It is irrelevant, I'm not discussing the prevalence of the practice, I'm discussing the justification for it in the Islamic world - and ultimately, whether Muslims would accept and adopt Western views of child marriage over their own Prophets.



Ahh, so now its irrelevant, but a minute ago it wasnt?


I thought we were discussing about how the muslims live in Europe?


Or have you moved the goalposts yet again because you couldnt find any evidence?

Castro 10.04.2018 11:54

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932881)
It is irrelevant, I'm not discussing the prevalence of the practice, I'm discussing the justification for it in the Islamic world - and ultimately, whether Muslims would accept and adopt Western views of child marriage over their own Prophets.

Poverty is one of the leading causes of child brides. A Bangladeshi rickshaw driver with 7 kids will marry them off as soon as he can. That doesn't exclude other reasons such as rebellious teens being drugged and bundled on a plane to Pakistan, but none of this is intrinsically Islamic... like I'm sure you know.

kriss kross 10.04.2018 11:55

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2932886)
Ahh, so now its irrelevant, but a minute ago it wasnt?


I thought we were discussing about how the muslims live in Europe?

Right, and we were discussing whether, in a general sense, Muslims would put European values above Islamic values.

In this specific case, whether they would put European views of child marriage above those of their Prophet.

I think you realise all this though and are simply attempting to obfuscate the point because you know the answer and you don't like it.

greenmount 10.04.2018 12:35

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Values change with time...are also influenced by education, socioeconomic status, social inclusion, law enforcement etc.

Anyways. I'll let everyone else here debate these issues ad nauseam. It's like watching funny gifs with cats playing table tennis...lol Who can give a definite answer on such things? I congratulate those, they have...vision. People are different. You can't generalise.

Elu 10.04.2018 12:37

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932853)
So Muslims who believe in marriage of a girl who has reached mensus, regardless of age, have "extreme values"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932885)
I just wanted to hear you agree that the majority of Muslims do in fact hold 'extreme views' in the European sense.



STOP!
Don't you dare putting words into my mouth like that :msnmad:


In no words I wrote something about the majority of muslims.


EDIT: Oops sorry krisskross my mistake, i overread "prevalent" in your second question.

Elu 10.04.2018 13:07

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932885)
I just wanted to hear you agree that the majority of Muslims do in fact hold 'extreme views' in the European sense.



Hmm sorry I didn't see that you altered your statement a bit before asking for a confirmation. My bad.


Let me clarify then: Nope I dont think that a majority of muslims has those extreme views.

J2488 10.04.2018 13:11

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932896)
Right, and we were discussing whether, in a general sense, Muslims would put European values above Islamic values.

In this specific case, whether they would put European views of child marriage above those of their Prophet.

I think you realise all this though and are simply attempting to obfuscate the point because you know the answer and you don't like it.



The fact there is no prevalence of child brides would indicate that the muslim community have already put that european value above that of their homelands, in this respect.


The fact that they talk like us, dress like us, learn like us, work like us, pay taxes like us, have passports like us, do military service like us, and generally live like us indicates that they have already put 'european' values above their religious values.


Even when the values contradict, most are quite happy to take the european values, and dont want to make a big deal about it. Consider the number of muslims who buy meat from migros and coop; its not halal but they have adapted to what is available.


Believe it or not, muslims are like you and me, just trying to live their lives in an increasingly chaotic world. They have no intention of marrying their daughters off at the age of 12.


I do know the answer; Muslims are, by and large, integrated into european society. They contribute in myriad ways to european society as a whole, and are as european as you and me. And this infuriates people like you because you have some deep seated belief that they are a lesser, different people, and you dont think they should be here.

kriss kross 10.04.2018 13:16

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Elu (Post 2932925)
Hmm sorry I didn't see that you altered your statement a bit before asking for a confirmation. My bad.

Let me clarify then: Nope I dont think that a majority of muslims has those extreme views.

So despite the fact that child marriage is allowed under Islamic law and that Prophet Muhammad engaged in it himself, you believe that most Muslims think it's wrong?

greenmount 10.04.2018 13:19

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932931)

Believe it or not, muslims are like you and me, just trying to live their lives in an increasingly chaotic world. They have no intention of marrying their daughters off at the age of 12.


I do know the answer; Muslims are, by and large, integrated into european society. They contribute in myriad ways to european society as a whole, and are as european as you and me. And this infuriates people like you because you have some deep seated belief that they are a lesser, different people, and you dont think they should be here.

Yes, and replace "Muslims" with any other group that some people here (I'd give some names but don't want to provoke any more discussions on the British Forum) don't feel like they should be where they are or that are "lesser, different people"...

kriss kross 10.04.2018 13:24

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2932928)
The fact there is no prevalence of child brides would indicate that the muslim community have already put that european value above that of their homelands, in this respect.

Again, I never commented on the prevalence of the practice nor did I suggest that Muslims would all run off to marry children.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2932928)
The fact that they talk like us, dress like us, learn like us, work like us, pay taxes like us, have passports like us, do military service like us, and generally live like us indicates that they have already put 'european' values above their religious values.

My question was, in the hypothetical situation that they form a majority of a European city in the future, would they continue to put European values above Islamic values?

Guest 10.04.2018 13:26

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2932928)
The fact there is no prevalence of child brides would indicate that the muslim community have already put that european value above that of their homelands, in this respect.

The fact that they talk like us, dress like us, learn like us, work like us, pay taxes like us, have passports like us, do military service like us, and generally live like us indicates that they have already put 'european' values above their religious values.

Even when the values contradict, most are quite happy to take the european values, and dont want to make a big deal about it. Consider the number of muslims who buy meat from migros and coop; its not halal but they have adapted to what is available.

Believe it or not, muslims are like you and me, just trying to live their lives in an increasingly chaotic world. They have no intention of marrying their daughters off at the age of 12.

I do know the answer; Muslims are, by and large, integrated into european society. They contribute in myriad ways to european society as a whole, and are as european as you and me. And this infuriates people like you because you have some deep seated belief that they are a lesser, different people, and you dont think they should be here.

Funny, you complain when others lump Muslims all into the same boat and then do it yourself.

Yes, many Muslims are integrated into European society, however there are still massive numbers which are not, nor ever will be. Especially when people like you deny there is a problem.

Elu 10.04.2018 13:26

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932931)
So despite the fact that child marriage is allowed under Islamic law and that Prophet Muhammad engaged in it himself, you believe that most Muslims think it's wrong?



I have no idea what most muslims think and thats not what we started talking about. We were talking about how values can change when immigrating into another culture.

Castro 10.04.2018 13:28

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2932931)
So despite the fact that child marriage is allowed under Islamic law and that Prophet Muhammad engaged in it himself, you believe that most Muslims think it's wrong?

You are talking about the Arabian peninsula in 630AD, life expectancy of the general population was just 35. Back then there were no schools, universities or Justin Bieber concerts. As soon as you hit puberty, you were an adult.

You are like a pound shop Terminator.. you just don't stop

kriss kross 10.04.2018 13:31

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2932928)
I do know the answer; Muslims are, by and large, integrated into european society. They contribute in myriad ways to european society as a whole, and are as european as you and me.

Well, I don't believe that some Hijabi with no roots in the continent is as European as me so we'll have to agree to disagree there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2932928)
And this infuriates people like you because you have some deep seated belief that they are a lesser, different people, and you dont think they should be here.

You keep insisting that I hate them and consider them inferior to me. I simply think that they have their own homeland that shares their culture and that they may be happier enjoying their Islamic lifestyle there.

parnell 10.04.2018 13:32

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2932928)
The fact there is no prevalence of child brides would indicate that the muslim community have already put that european value above that of their homelands, in this respect.

Fact huh ?

Quote:

Denmark's response has swung first one way and then the other.
In February, Integration Minister Inger Stojberg vowed to act after a review found dozens of cases of girls living with older men in asylum seekers' accommodation - which the minister called "totally unacceptable".
Couples would require "exceptional reasons" to live together below the age of 18 (the legal age for marriage in Denmark) and no cohabitation would be allowed whatsoever if one party was below 15.
But separation reportedly prompted two migrants under 18 to attempt suicide.
The policy was reversed earlier this week - with children as young as 14 reunited with their husbands - after the issue was raised with the Danish Immigration Service (DIS) by lawmaker Josephine Fock.


Data suggest that in Germany there are at least 1,000 marriages where one or both parties are under the legal marriage age of 18, of which more than half are in the southern state of Bavaria.
and that just from the BBC and just those that are reported...

amogles 10.04.2018 14:10

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
And finally we realize that Jimmy Saville was a muslim. :)


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