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-   -   All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe) (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/244043-all-about-muslims-wake-terrorist-attacks-europe.html)

kriss kross 10.04.2018 20:11

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace1 (Post 2933104)
Really? The whole thread is atbout Muslims, you're saying that Muslims support child marriage, and that Muslims will try to legalise it in Europe after they've somehow taken over.

Given that marriage with a child who has reached mensus is allowed under Islamic law and was also practiced by Muhammad, the role model who all Muslims aspire to be like, I don't think that most Muslims would be against child marriage with a girl 'of age' - why would they be if they truly believe in Islam? :confused:

And the question, which you seem unable to answer, is in the future if they were to form a majority of a European city, will they put European values over Islamic values?

Ace1 10.04.2018 20:27

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2933110)
Given that marriage with a child who has reached mensus is allowed under Islamic law and was also practiced by Muhammad, the role model who all Muslims aspire to be like, I don't think that most Muslims would be against child marriage with a girl 'of age' - why would they be if they truly believe in Islam? :confused:

You really are confused, aren't you? How many Muslims have you asked about this? None? Thought not. But don't let that stop you, after all, you don't seem to worry about facts getting in the way of a good rant the rest of the time, so why start now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2933110)

And the question, which you seem unable to answer, is in the future if they were to form a majority of a European city, will they put European values over Islamic values?

Repeating it doesn't make it a valid question. It's based on a false assumption, as has been pointed out to you. Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

kriss kross 10.04.2018 20:39

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace1 (Post 2933120)
You really are confused, aren't you? How many Muslims have you asked about this? None? Thought not. But don't let that stop you, after all, you don't seem to worry about facts getting in the way of a good rant the rest of the time, so why start now?

I've asked a lot of Muslims about it, most of them agree that marriage with a girl 'of age' is permissible under Islam and see nothing wrong with it.

You seem to have this idea that I don't know any Muslims yet I grew up very close with a lot of them and I've had many, many conversations with them about Islam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace1 (Post 2933120)
Repeating it doesn't make it a valid question. It's based on a false assumption, as has been pointed out to you. Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

It was about a hypothetical situation, I wouldn't call it impossible that Muslims may one day make up the majority of a European city.

But if you can't/don't want to answer that's fine.

marton 10.04.2018 20:53

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
This is really a nothing burger!

ca 2,000 alleged cases of Honour crime per year, read your link and they are really talking about domestic violence. Sadly there were 1.1 million cases of domestic violence reported to the police in the UK last year so the Muslim part is very small.
Source

"Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal"; but many non-Muslims think the same. Over 7,000 hate crimes against LGBT reported last year.
Source

"Over 40% of UK Muslims support “aspects” of sharia law", but how is this different from Christians following some of the Ten Commandments? Ecclesiastical courts and consistory courts still exist today but with much reduced powers.

"Turks in Germany voted" So anybody here who takes an active interest in home country politics like Brexit or Trump is not integrated?

"NHS attended to 9,000 FGM cases in England" From your link "Figures from 2015-16 showed that 18 of the newly recorded cases that year took place in the UK.", so how does anything that happened in their home countries long ago to minors without their informed consent have anything to do with their integration today?

marton 10.04.2018 21:11

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2933110)
Given that marriage with a child who has reached mensus is allowed under Islamic law and was also practiced by Muhammad, the role model who all Muslims aspire to be like, I don't think that most Muslims would be against child marriage with a girl 'of age' - why would they be if they truly believe in Islam? :confused:

And the question, which you seem unable to answer, is in the future if they were to form a majority of a European city, will they put European values over Islamic values?

You do realise marriage with a child who has reached mensus was a rule the Muslims borrowed from the Christian Bible?

Look at Ezekiel 16:4 - 8!
Actually the Biblical definition could be interpreted as before mensus!!
Quote:

You grew and developed and entered puberty. Your breasts had formed and your hair had grown,
Example; Many sources claim Mary was 12 years old when she married Joseph!

Guest 10.04.2018 21:43

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2933128)
This is really a nothing burger!

ca 2,000 alleged cases of Honour crime per year, read your link and they are really talking about domestic violence. Sadly there were 1.1 million cases of domestic violence reported to the police in the UK last year so the Muslim part is very small.
Source

"Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal"; but many non-Muslims think the same. Over 7,000 hate crimes against LGBT reported last year.
Source

"Over 40% of UK Muslims support “aspects” of sharia law", but how is this different from Christians following some of the Ten Commandments? Ecclesiastical courts and consistory courts still exist today but with much reduced powers.

"Turks in Germany voted" So anybody here who takes an active interest in home country politics like Brexit or Trump is not integrated?

"NHS attended to 9,000 FGM cases in England" From your link "Figures from 2015-16 showed that 18 of the newly recorded cases that year took place in the UK.", so how does anything that happened in their home countries long ago to minors without their informed consent have anything to do with their integration today?

May I refer you to this handy list?

marton 10.04.2018 22:05

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz1983 (Post 2933141)
May I refer you to this handy list?

You agree your post was "a nothing burger".
Thanks

To quote an EF colleague
"You're not very good at this debating thing, are you?"

greenmount 11.04.2018 00:08

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
So much hate between people is not a good thing at all... I suggest you all cool down a bit.

greenmount 11.04.2018 08:19

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by parnell (Post 2933087)
That's why I choose to live in a country with genuine democracy - where the people are allowed to vote on almost everything as opposed to countries like Germany where "people like Loz" have been dismissed... until their predictions have come to pass.

Loz is a punching box who punches back, I wouldn't worry about him.
Right, Loz? :msncool:

Btw parnell, how long was your last ban? :rofl:

Guest 11.04.2018 08:39

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2933162)
You agree your post was "a nothing burger".
Thanks

To quote an EF colleague
"You're not very good at this debating thing, are you?"

No it isn't "a nothing burger", it's just pointless to engage with you when your arguments are so fantastical.

greenmount 11.04.2018 08:52

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2933001)
Wherever their roots are.

According to this theory, we should all live in Africa. :msnsad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueangel (Post 2933030)
And your roots are Swiss or British or both, as you've laid claim to both in your posts?

It's curious. I had an Australian friend here of Asian origins who felt threatened by certain immigrants in Australia and said it's much better living here, especially because she has a daughter. We didn't discuss more because I always change the subject when things like this pop up, I'm too embarrassed for their embarrassment so to speak. But there's something going on there I couldn't put my finger on, justified or not -( and frankly I'm not going to dig for every shite that I come across with).

Elu 11.04.2018 08:59

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2933110)

And the question, which you seem unable to answer, is in the future if they were to form a majority of a European city, will they put European values over Islamic values?



I think your question is just not as simple as you think.


Do we consider values of secular muslims too or just those who describe themselves as believers? If the secular muslims don't count, do we take them into account when we determine who has the majority?

What are islamic values? The Scharia? Or the qurans many interpretations by various groups?


I guess if you want an answer you need to be more precise...

The same with "christian" values. Who defines them? The Pope? The bible? Jehovas witnesses? The bible belt? My dad? ...Are my values christian just because I'm baptised?

amogles 11.04.2018 09:33

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2933056)
There is a real problem, ill give you that. The problem is people like you. Europe would be much better off without your kind, and the hatred you foment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elu (Post 2933095)
Cheers mate, I like you too :rolleyes:

Remember, fear is the path to the dark side :D

Strange that those who accuse the others of fear and say fear is wrong are themselves driven by fear. Fear of people who disagree with them.

Elu 11.04.2018 09:44

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 2933252)
Strange that those who accuse the others of fear and say fear is wrong are themselves driven by fear. Fear of people who disagree with them.



krisskross and I would find some common ground if we would talk irl and I agreed with him on many other threads. In this one, he's far to undifferentiated for me.

marton 11.04.2018 10:03

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Loz1983 (Post 2933227)
No it isn't "a nothing burger", it's just pointless to engage with you when your arguments are so fantastical.

I simply quoted facts which you failed to challenge, not exaggerated headlines. :p

Guest 11.04.2018 10:46

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2933263)
I simply quoted facts which you failed to
challenge, not exaggerated headlines. :p

These are not facts:

Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2933128)
but how is this different from Christians following some of the Ten Commandments? Ecclesiastical courts and consistory courts still exist today but with much reduced powers.

So anybody here who takes an active interest in home country politics like Brexit or Trump is not integrated?

And these are not arguments:

Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2933128)
Sadly there were 1.1 million cases of domestic violence reported to the police in the UK last year so the Muslim part is very small.

but many non-Muslims think the same. Over 7,000 hate crimes against LGBT reported last year.

HTH.

parnell 11.04.2018 11:03

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 2933220)
Loz is a punching box who punches back, I wouldn't worry about him.
Right, Loz? :msncool:

Btw parnell, how long was your last ban? :rofl:

1 month (and for posting a very popular 2000s internet meme! - in fairness I was in the wrong and posted an apology to the member on the thread but that was ignored by the mods) - what was heartwarming was the mods who PM'd me on return to say that they were glad I returned.

The vitriol and personal insults that kriss and others receive - just for putting forward their point of view and even from mods makes a mockery of this forum's rules. I don't post very much anymore - maybe just to call out the most absurd of posts - like saying that folks like Loz are the problem rather than actual terrorists and criminals - which was an incredibly abusive post.

Either the forum has rules which it applies fairly and to all or it does not. I happen to live in Switzerland and love being here for the additional freedoms it allows over other countries - but I accept that this forum is dominated by people who believe in Corbynite type censorship.

amogles 11.04.2018 11:07

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2933133)
Example; Many sources claim Mary was 12 years old when she married Joseph!

In the middle-ages, it was also Church teaching that her marraige was never consummated, that giving birth did not compromise her physical virginity, and that she never consummated her marriage afterwards either.

Thoretically that is still Church dogma today but most people just shrug at the thought, and think, what does it matter either way?

Many protestant denominations on the other hand, disagree, and claim Jesus had a younger brother.

Both points of view are based on rather tenuous interpretation of marginal and ambiguous statements in the Bible.

Blueangel 11.04.2018 11:17

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 2933297)
Many protestant denominations on the other hand, disagree, and claim Jesus had a younger brother.

Both points of view are based on rather tenuous interpretation of marginal and ambiguous statements in the Bible.

The Christian faiths also deny that there were 12 female apostles even though they get a mention in the gospels of Luke and Matthew. C'est la vie.

parnell 11.04.2018 11:20

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amogles (Post 2933297)
In the middle-ages, it was also Church teaching that her marraige was never consummated, that giving birth did not compromise her physical virginity, and that she never consummated her marriage afterwards either.

Thoretically that is still Church dogma today but most people just shrug at the thought, and think, what does it matter either way?

Many protestant denominations on the other hand, disagree, and claim Jesus had a younger brother.

Which ones - out of genuine interest ?

HEre :

Quote:

Catholics and Orthodox, as well as some Anglicans and Lutherans, believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary;[4][5][6] they teach that James, along with others named in the New Testament as "brothers" (Greek: ἀδελφοί, translit. adelphoi, lit. 'brothers')[7] of Jesus, were not the biological children of Mary, but were possibly cousins of Jesus[8] or step-brothers from a previous marriage of Joseph.


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