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  #2641  
Old 31.07.2018, 12:32
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I was pointing out that he was a product of mass migration from Muslim countries into the UK.
There has not been any "mass migration" into the UK from Libya.

Come on, Esto. I'm no more of a fan of islamic nonsense than you are, but please stop talking utter shit.
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  #2642  
Old 31.07.2018, 12:42
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Right, it's the UK's fault. They invited them in, but didn't give them the wonderful life they expected, so of course they then get angry and turn to religious violence.
We are legally obliged to accept people claiming asylum and once it has been ascertained that their claim was legitimate, they must be treated as our own.

How many times do we have to see the same thing before we learn. People need to be spread out, not all concentrated into the cheapest, shittiest accomodations possible - this ghettoisation ALWAYS leads to issues, whether it be petty crime, violence or radicalisation and yet we still persist with the "stick them all in that cheap housing estate" attitude.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me again...you can't fool me again...as the saying goes
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  #2643  
Old 31.07.2018, 12:45
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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We are legally obliged to accept people claiming asylum and once it has been ascertained that their claim was legitimate, they must be treated as our own.

How many times do we have to see the same thing before we learn. People need to be spread out, not all concentrated into the cheapest, shittiest accomodations possible - this ghettoisation ALWAYS leads to issues, whether it be petty crime, violence or radicalisation and yet we still persist with the "stick them all in that cheap housing estate" attitude.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me again...you can't fool me again...as the saying goes
Being spread out brings its own problems of isolation, lack of adequate infrastructure and support, and persecution.

There's also the issue of personal freedom: people have a right to live in communities with people with whom they have something in common.
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  #2644  
Old 31.07.2018, 12:48
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Being spread out brings its own problems of isolation, lack of adequate infrastructure and support, and persecution.
It also forces quicker integration, however I see your point. There is a happy medium, I am sure. One thing I like about the system here, is that asylum seekers, whilst awaiting their verdict, are allowed to work (in a limited capacity) - this is essential for ongoing integration I would say.
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Old 31.07.2018, 12:57
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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There's also the issue of personal freedom: people have a right to live in communities with people with whom they have something in common.
Given that they're just as British as anyone else I'm sure that they won't need their own seclusive communities.
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  #2646  
Old 31.07.2018, 12:57
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Being spread out brings its own problems of isolation, lack of adequate infrastructure and support, and persecution.

There's also the issue of personal freedom: people have a right to live in communities with people with whom they have something in common.
When you arrive in a new country, the best thing is to get cultural immersion as quickly as possible. Chat to locals, make friends with them, pick up language, culture, ways, savour local food, customs, do the fasnacht, etc etc.

All this is much more difficult to do if you're in a ghetto and you're getting TV from home and eating food from back home and going to a shop that is just like home and you are surrounded by people who buffer you from the influences of the host country.

But of course once you are relatively integrated, then of course it is Ok to seek out people of your own culture. By choice and not by default.

It's a but like the expats congreagting in the one of the English pubs in Zürich bemoaning that the beer is so expensive in Switzerland, even though they could probably get a beer for about half the price at the Swiss place around the corner. But it just takes that little extra effort and you have to move out of your comfort zone a little more.
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  #2647  
Old 31.07.2018, 12:58
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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There has not been any "mass migration" into the UK from Libya.

Come on, Esto. I'm no more of a fan of islamic nonsense than you are, but please stop talking utter shit.
No from Libya, but Middle East and Africa, which are predominantly Muslim. You would have to be living under a rock not to notice that.

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We are legally obliged to accept people claiming asylum and once it has been ascertained that their claim was legitimate, they must be treated as our own.
Laws are being exploited by eg. people burning their passports and claiming to be from countries that are entitled to refugee status. People claiming to be minors when if fact not. Then once being granted refugee status having no desire to work or integrate. Or worse, hang around mosques and spew hatred ideology. Of course there are many who are actual refugees and willing to integrate and work, etc. But the system seems more out of control and unable to cope, as we see with ghettos, constant problems with radicalized Islamists, etc. Maybe the refugee laws should be tightened up a bit?

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How many times do we have to see the same thing before we learn. People need to be spread out, not all concentrated into the cheapest, shittiest accomodations possible - this ghettoisation ALWAYS leads to issues, whether it be petty crime, violence or radicalisation and yet we still persist with the "stick them all in that cheap housing estate" attitude.
Migrant ghettos are complicated. It's partly people of a culture/country wanting to live together, partly affordability, and partly other reasons. I think Mälmö in Sweden should be a case study of how NOT to welcome massive amounts of refugees and then allow them to build a state within a state.
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  #2648  
Old 31.07.2018, 13:07
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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It also forces quicker integration, however I see your point. There is a happy medium, I am sure. One thing I like about the system here, is that asylum seekers, whilst awaiting their verdict, are allowed to work (in a limited capacity) - this is essential for ongoing integration I would say.
"Allowed to work"??...I think it should be mandatory!
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  #2649  
Old 31.07.2018, 13:18
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Right, it's the UK's fault. They invited them in, but didn't give them the wonderful life they expected, so of course they then get angry and turn to religious violence.
No, my point was that in some cases religious nutters have a very fertile terrain to try their ideas on...couple that with the fact the youth in general are rather hotheaded..Maybe it's better to understand how this propaganda spreads and why this youth has this profound feeling of alienation.

And you know it's not really about religion - the well established Turkish or Tatar historic communities in predominantly "Christian" EE and Balkan countries are a proof it's not about religion. I'm willing to be called stupid, idiot, leftist imbecile, if you'll find an isis fighter or a terrorist among certain communities.
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  #2650  
Old 31.07.2018, 14:01
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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No, my point was that in some cases religious nutters have a very fertile terrain to try their ideas on...couple that with the fact the youth in general are rather hotheaded..Maybe it's better to understand how this propaganda spreads and why this youth has this profound feeling of alienation.
Yea, sure. Something like 80% of the migrants coming from ME and Africa are young males. Many were raised in Muslim areas. How does the EU suddenly integrate them all, give them all good jobs, etc? What the EU is doing by allowing mass migration is not fair to native Europeans or the migrants.

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And you know it's not really about religion - the well established Turkish or Tatar historic communities in predominantly "Christian" EE and Balkan countries are a proof it's not about religion. I'm willing to be called stupid, idiot, leftist imbecile, if you'll find an isis fighter or a terrorist among certain communities.
Of course it's a mix of not only religion, but how the culture/society handles the religion. The Muslims who have been living a long time in Europe have adapted more to the European culture/values and are generally not so hardcore as the ones who have just arrived from the ME or Africa. Altho second generation immigrants (like the 2nd gen Libyan kid who blew up the concert) seem to be maybe some of the more dangerous groups.

The Balkan Muslims are a mixed bag, but still have their fair share of nutters...

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The Balkans have become a source of recruitment to ISIS. Kosovo alone has seen more than 300 people travel abroad to join the Islamic State. And it's not a just flow people. Weapons from the Balkans have been showing up in the hands of ISIS fighters also.
https://www.npr.org/2016/05/28/47982...=1533034283579
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  #2651  
Old 31.07.2018, 14:04
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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He was evacuated from Libya in August 2014, this was before ISIS extended their terrorist operations to Libya.
Source

So he was not fighting for ISIS.

The article states "Until a month before his rescue, Abedi was being monitored by UK security forces. The review into the Manchester attack found that, based on the information available at the time, the decision to close his case was sound."
So he was not fighting for anyone!
According to BBC TV this morning, he was on holiday in Libya with his younger brother. They had to leave when local inter-militia fighting broke out.

Makes sense, if he was fighting for someone then he had no reason to leave.
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  #2652  
Old 31.07.2018, 14:14
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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No from Libya, but Middle East and Africa, which are predominantly Muslim. You would have to be living under a rock not to notice that.


Laws are being exploited by eg. people burning their passports and claiming to be from countries that are entitled to refugee status. People claiming to be minors when if fact not. Then once being granted refugee status having no desire to work or integrate. Or worse, hang around mosques and spew hatred ideology. Of course there are many who are actual refugees and willing to integrate and work, etc. But the system seems more out of control and unable to cope, as we see with ghettos, constant problems with radicalized Islamists, etc. Maybe the refugee laws should be tightened up a bit?


Migrant ghettos are complicated. It's partly people of a culture/country wanting to live together, partly affordability, and partly other reasons. I think Mälmö in Sweden should be a case study of how NOT to welcome massive amounts of refugees and then allow them to build a state within a state.
It is not just migrant ghettos.

In UK, the Socialist dream of housing everybody ran into the law of unintended consequences when some of the council housing estates and tower blocks turned into ghettos of a criminal and violent underclass.

Very difficult to find a workable solution.
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  #2653  
Old 31.07.2018, 14:33
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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According to BBC TV this morning, he was on holiday in Libya with his younger brother. They had to leave when local inter-militia fighting broke out.
"On holiday in Libya"? LOL, sure, ok, just like all the Russians "on holiday" in Ukraine with their Kalashnikovs

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In UK, the Socialist dream of housing everybody ran into the law of unintended consequences when some of the council housing estates and tower blocks turned into ghettos of a criminal and violent underclass.
Yea, those "Socialist dreams" look good on paper, but don't always play out too well in reality
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Old 31.07.2018, 15:08
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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She's got some very good points there regarding Europe's immigration policy problems, and double standards/hypocrisy.
Spoken by someone who has obviously never been to Canada!
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  #2655  
Old 31.07.2018, 15:10
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Yea, those "Socialist dreams" look good on paper, but don't always play out too well in reality
No, they don't, but as you said it's also a question of affordability. At least the UK has found a solution, in other countries they would have to take out their own people to house the new obligatory contingents of immigrants. (if)
And if Europe finds money for that, but not for equally desperate local cases....then I'd never agree with Europe.
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Old 31.07.2018, 15:14
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I was pointing out that he was a product of mass migration from Muslim countries into the UK. Same as the fellows at the Mosque who recruited him, I would assume. Or should we just pretend and ignore this problem exists out of fear of being labeled "islamophobe" or whatever?



Right, it's the UK's fault. They invited them in, but didn't give them the wonderful life they expected, so of course they then get angry and turn to religious violence.
But neutral Switzerland has a higher percentile of muslims than the warmongering UK, so what is your point exactly?
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  #2657  
Old 31.07.2018, 15:18
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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But neutral Switzerland has a higher percentile of muslims than the warmongering UK, so what is your point exactly?
Most of them are Balkan Muslims.
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  #2658  
Old 31.07.2018, 15:23
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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If I wanted to watch alt right videos (which I don't) then I would go straight to you tube.

Here we have a thread about Europe and you post a video by a Canadian lady without any attempt by you to explain how it is relevant to this thread so obviously I am not motivated to watch it?

Of course, Canadian ladies dare to talk about Islam and I dare to choose not to listen until I know the relevance.

I suppose your claim "(sic) Shes doesn't know any muslims!" is another one of your groundless assumptions without you offering any evidence to support it?
1 - She was giving an interview on Sky News Australia, not a alt-right Youtube channel.

2 - Oh, is this a thread about Europe? Why have you posted about a muslim lady in the USA? Still, the Islam problem is a world wide problem.

3 - She brings a very relevant north american view on the problem that Europe is facing right now: the muslim population will surpass judeo-christian population in Europe as soon as 2040 (Sweden). According to the quran, all mulims should fight and subjugated the infidels.

4 - By now any intelligent person is aware that Islam is a problem and we should fight back with.
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  #2659  
Old 31.07.2018, 15:30
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Where do people mock Christians?

Nope, sorry complaining about church bells doesn’t count!

Parnell you and Kriss Kross and Capo, incessantly come on this Forum to post your distaste of immigrants, of which you are all!

Well I still think the only good fascist is a dead fascist! So what, are you a fascist then Parnell or would you have supported them in the 1930s? I assume you would have been on the side of Mussolini and Hitler then. Quite frankly I am extremely glad they didn’t win the war. Maybe you should tootle off back to your Hitler shrine.
First of all, YOU FOR CALLING ME A FASCIST! I have people in my family who suffered the tragedy of fascism and I don't accept a fag like you calling me like that! YOU!

Second, racism is related to RACE, not religion! I warmly welcome Arabic Christians who are seeking refuge in Europe.

Third, I dated a "MUSLIM" girl: she is from Iran and in her national ID it's written "RELIGION DENOMINATION: MUSLIM". She is atheist, but because of the Islamic regime she have no choice!
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Old 31.07.2018, 15:35
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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There has not been any "mass migration" into the UK from Libya.

Come on, Esto. I'm no more of a fan of islamic nonsense than you are, but please stop talking utter shit.
Aham

Not immigration from just Libya but Pakistan and other countries:


It's funny that 10 years ago the British were complaining about Polish immigraton...
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