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  #2741  
Old 03.08.2018, 20:18
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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In my opinion I consider Africa to be, in general, a more barbaric place than Europe.

So when greemount said ''the way to barbarianism can be very, very short'', meaning that by returning illegal immigrants will somehow lead Europe to 'barbarianism', I was just pointing out that perhaps having an influx of many people from a more barbaric place may also lead to 'barbarianism'
Oh, if you put this way.. Barbarian is not a racist term per se, but in this context it seemed a lot like one. To me they seem like desperate people trying to immigrate to Europe. Yes, they may come from less developed counties, but I wouldn't call anyone like that (unless in jest, a joke with friends or smth)

Anyway, my point was that you can't just let people drawn in the Med. Why is it so difficult to understand? There are international rules and codes of conduct. That if you don't want to look at the problem in a simply humane way. What happens with people after that is also regulated by international rules. If you want to stop illegal immigration you have to tackle the problem at source.

.....but you must know that, don't you?
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  #2742  
Old 03.08.2018, 20:33
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Math really isn't your forte. Assuming you're not simply lieing.
Oops, missed the decimal point. Sorry. Happens sometimes.


I guess spelling isn't your forte


Quote:
Verb

lieing
  1. Misspelling of lying.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lieing
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  #2743  
Old 03.08.2018, 21:27
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Anyway, my point was that you can't just let people drawn in the Med. Why is it so difficult to understand?
It's not at all, rescue them and return them to where they came from.
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  #2744  
Old 03.08.2018, 22:18
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Oops, missed the decimal point. Sorry. Happens sometimes.

I guess spelling isn't your forte

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lieing
Any more red herrings?
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  #2745  
Old 04.08.2018, 07:59
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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It's not at all, rescue them and return them to where they came from.
But where do they come from?

Sudan, Eritrea, DRC, Africa is a huge continent. Many people fleeing war or persecution, or just economic migrants, are not going to be carrying much in the way of identification. Sending them back to their last point of departure is not sending them home, anyway they may be fleeing persecution and war, so in that case they would just as well die in the Med by your logic.

Apart from genuine refugees fleeing Syria, Yemen or South Sudan or other Predominantly Muslim countries, some of those fleeing are fleeing because they are not Muslim.

I don’t see what this topic has to do specifically with the thread.
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  #2746  
Old 04.08.2018, 10:26
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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It's not at all, rescue them and return them to where they came from.
But before we return them we must process them and check for genuine refugees.
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  #2747  
Old 04.08.2018, 10:28
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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In my opinion I consider Africa to be, in general, a more barbaric place than Europe.

So when greemount said ''the way to barbarianism can be very, very short'', meaning that by returning illegal immigrants will somehow lead Europe to 'barbarianism', I was just pointing out that perhaps having an influx of many people from a more barbaric place may also lead to 'barbarianism'
Right, so you've confirmed your racism. You've just labelled the entire, diverse continent of Africa, and by implication, all who live there, as barbaric. It must be easy to distinguish these barbaric people from the sophisticated, refined people of Europe, mustn't it; those barbaric Africans are the black ones, right? So much more barbaric than the genocidal Serbs, for example, or of course the genocidal Germans of the 1930s–40s.

Have you ever been to Africa? Do you understand the heterogeneity and diversity of people in that huge continent? Do you have any comprehension of the ancient customs and traditions that instill family values, respect, all those "barbaric" concepts, in the millions of communities across Africa?

What makes you so "less barbaric"?
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  #2748  
Old 04.08.2018, 11:39
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Right, so you've confirmed your racism. You've just labelled the entire, diverse continent of Africa, and by implication, all who live there, as barbaric. It must be easy to distinguish these barbaric people from the sophisticated, refined people of Europe, mustn't it; those barbaric Africans are the black ones, right? So much more barbaric than the genocidal Serbs, for example, or of course the genocidal Germans of the 1930s–40s.

Have you ever been to Africa? Do you understand the heterogeneity and diversity of people in that huge continent? Do you have any comprehension of the ancient customs and traditions that instill family values, respect, all those "barbaric" concepts, in the millions of communities across Africa?

What makes you so "less barbaric"?
Oxford Dictionary
barbaric; Savagely cruel.

Cambridge Dictionary
barbaric; extremely cruel and unpleasant

Well, of course, blanket statements labelling a whole continent as barbaric are racist by definition.

Four African countries are in the top 30 of the Press Freedom Index. UK was no. 40 and the US no. 45.
Egypt, the cradle of civilisation, is barbaric?
Holiday destinations like Madagascar, Seychelles, Mauritius and more are barbaric?
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  #2749  
Old 04.08.2018, 11:46
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Right, so you've confirmed your racism. You've just labelled the entire, diverse continent of Africa, and by implication, all who live there, as barbaric
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What makes you so "less barbaric"?
I said that I believe, in general, Africa to be a more barbaric place than Europe and I stand by that.

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So much more barbaric than the genocidal Serbs, for example, or of course the genocidal Germans of the 1930s–40s.
Sure, Europe has also had a barbaric history and committed horrible acts - but if you're willing to admit and discuss that then you should do Africa the same, and not refrain from criticising them because of their skin colour.
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Old 04.08.2018, 12:07
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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But where do they come from?

Sudan, Eritrea, DRC, Africa is a huge continent.
I think he just means simply to bring them back to the point where the boat came from (eg. Morocco, a safe country, BTW), not return each individual to their respective home countries. That is a headache, as you and any EU migration officer can easily recognize...



Quote:
In my opinion I consider Africa to be, in general, a more barbaric place than Europe.
There's currently plenty of war, savagery, etc.. many of these reasons are justified in giving asylum to African people in the EU. ...but to point out that Africa is not really a nice, safe place is considered "racist" by some people? Ok, LOL... the sword has two edges

Last edited by esto; 04.08.2018 at 13:43.
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Old 04.08.2018, 12:07
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I said that I believe, in general, Africa to be a more barbaric place than Europe and I stand by that.



Sure, Europe has also had a barbaric history and committed horrible acts - but if you're willing to admit and discuss that then you should do Africa the same, and not refrain from criticising them because of their skin colour.
Lol, as usual you completely miss the point yet again, not only did you generalise a whole continent, you had to throw the little I shouldn’t criticize them based on skin colour statement to defend your ignorance. Twonk. I do often wonder why we bother to reply to your posts!
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Old 04.08.2018, 12:14
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I said that I believe, in general, Africa to be a more barbaric place than Europe and I stand by that.



Sure, Europe has also had a barbaric history and committed horrible acts - but if you're willing to admit and discuss that then you should do Africa the same, and not refrain from criticising them because of their skin colour.
"skin colour", and you claim not to be racist?

Do you mean the light beige skin of the San or the deep black skin of the Dinka?
Source
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  #2753  
Old 04.08.2018, 12:18
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I don't think he just means simply to bring them back to the point where the boat came from (eg. Morocco, a safe country, BTW), not return each individual to their respective home countries. That is a headache, as you and any EU migration officer can easily recognize...



There's currently plenty of war, savagery, etc.. many of these reasons are justified in giving asylum to African people in the EU. ...but to point out that Africa is not really a nice, safe place is considered "racist" by some people? Ok, LOL... the sword has two edges
But he did not say "Africa is not really a nice, safe place" but Africa is "barbaric" which is a racist generalisation? Your sword seems to be askew
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  #2754  
Old 04.08.2018, 12:36
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Right, so you've confirmed your racism. You've just labelled the entire, diverse continent of Africa, and by implication, all who live there, as barbaric. It must be easy to distinguish these barbaric people from the sophisticated, refined people of Europe, mustn't it; those barbaric Africans are the black ones, right? So much more barbaric than the genocidal Serbs, for example, or of course the genocidal Germans of the 1930s–40s.

Have you ever been to Africa? Do you understand the heterogeneity and diversity of people in that huge continent? Do you have any comprehension of the ancient customs and traditions that instill family values, respect, all those "barbaric" concepts, in the millions of communities across Africa?

What makes you so "less barbaric"?
Saying Ireland has a lot more alcoholics than say Saudi Arabia does not equate to saying Ireland is full of alcoholics.

comparative
kəmˈparətɪv/Submit
adjective
1.
measured or judged by estimating the similarity or dissimilarity between one thing and another; relative.
"he returned to the comparative comfort of his own home"
synonyms: relative, qualified, modified; in/by comparison
"they left the city for the comparative cool of the country"
2.
involving the systematic observation of the similarities or dissimilarities between two or more branches of science or subjects of study.
"comparative religion"

Whilst at the same time a young lady in Milan escaped being raped by a Nigerian asylum seeker who had quite the criminal record..

Quote:
(ANSA) - Milan, August 3 - Police said Friday that they have arrested a 31-year-old Nigerian man in relation to a rape attempt at Milan's Garibaldi station last month. The victim, a 25-year-old woman, managed to repel the attack using pepper spray.
The suspect, an undocumented migrant who has made a request to Italy for international protection, had previously been reported for alleged sexual violence against a woman on a train in November 2017, sources said.
He also has a criminal record for drug offences that is "six-pages long".
On the "genocidal Serbs" - I tend to agree - they have had a particularly poor record when it comes to violence against their near neighbours - and indeed are over represented in Swiss crime statistics - therefore they should suffer higher barriers to entry.

If you could travel back in time to the 1930s I would fully agree with your contentions about the Germans.
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  #2755  
Old 04.08.2018, 12:40
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Saying Ireland has a lot more alcoholics than say Saudi Arabia does not equate to saying Ireland is full of alcoholics.

comparative
kəmˈparətɪv/Submit
adjective
1.
measured or judged by estimating the similarity or dissimilarity between one thing and another; relative.
"he returned to the comparative comfort of his own home"
synonyms: relative, qualified, modified; in/by comparison
"they left the city for the comparative cool of the country"
2.
involving the systematic observation of the similarities or dissimilarities between two or more branches of science or subjects of study.
"comparative religion"

Whilst at the same time a young lady in Milan escaped being raped by a Nigerian asylum seeker who had quite the criminal record..
Lol, dictionary definitions!

Nigeria is also home to Christians, this thread is about what exactly? Surely not your new anti immigration platform!
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  #2756  
Old 04.08.2018, 13:15
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

If people - left , right or centre wish to learn from the mistakes of the past they will wish to call those mistakes out for what they are - as per Marseilles , Paris St. Denis and so on.

I'd highly recommend and especially to those who think of me as right-wing a read of the following article by the young black economist and philisopher Coleman Hughes on "Black American Culture and the Racial Wealth Gap".

I will grant you that the article title (the article itself which is full of statistics) is not immediately pertinent to that of this thread but just a very quick taste :

Quote:
More importantly, those who believe they are helping black Americans—or any demographic group—succeed by encouraging them to blame society are mistaken. Talking honestly about harmful behavioral patterns is the only way to reliably correct them. This ethical blind-spot is thrown into sharp relief by imagining instead that it was a loved one who was making disastrous financial decisions. Would you withhold criticism from them for fear that you’d be ‘blaming the victim’? Would you feed this person story after story meant to confirm their belief that society had caused all their problems? Or would you view it as your duty—a duty born out of your love for that person—to point out their self-defeating behaviors and encourage them to make wiser decisions? To alter a quote from James Baldwin: I love black American culture, and exactly for this reason I insist on the right to criticize it perpetually.
Have a good weekend fellow EFers.
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  #2757  
Old 04.08.2018, 13:29
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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There's currently plenty of war, savagery, etc.. many of these reasons are justified in giving asylum to African people in the EU. ...but to point out that Africa is not really a nice, safe place is considered "racist" by some people? Ok, LOL... the sword has two edges
"Africa has enormous problems with war, persecution and a lack of human rights, that's why so many are trying to escape and that's why Europe needs to help them"

"How dare you say Africa is a more barbaric place than Europe, that's racist"
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  #2758  
Old 04.08.2018, 13:34
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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There's currently plenty of war, savagery, etc.. many of these reasons are justified in giving asylum to African people in the EU. ...but to point out that Africa is not really a nice, safe place is considered "racist" by some people? Ok, LOL... the sword has two edges
C'mon, read again the sentence. Context is everything. He didn't say only that. I don't want to make a huge deal because of a word, in all fairness I've seen worse than that here, but one should be more careful with words....and first of all with generalisations.


Btw, I bet many (most?) of those coming by boat to Italy are from countries where Christians are either persecuted, or simply from countries where Christians form a significant part of the population. So it's a mixed crowd, what does that have to do with the thread's title..
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Old 04.08.2018, 13:58
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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"Africa has enormous problems with war, persecution and a lack of human rights, that's why so many are trying to escape and that's why Europe needs to help them"

"How dare you say Africa is a more barbaric place than Europe, that's racist"
"Africa" another generalization; it is a few individual African countries that have these problems.

There is a war in Ukraine and lack of human rights in Russia so using your definition is Europe also barbaric?
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  #2760  
Old 04.08.2018, 14:16
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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"Africa" another generalization; it is a few individual African countries that have these problems.

There is a war in Ukraine and lack of human rights in Russia so using your definition is Europe also barbaric?
...but it's not such a bad thing to be barbaric, trust me.
Quote:
In Ancient Rome, the Romans used the term towards non-Romans such as the Germanics, Celts, Gauls, Iberians, Thracians, Illyrians, Berbers, Parthians, and Sarmatians.


How things change, eh?
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