Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #2781  
Old 06.08.2018, 13:22
parnell's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 642
Groaned at 218 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 2,165 Times in 1,024 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Generalisations are a good thing. Without them no one would ever get to the point, anecdotes would be never ending, jokes wouldn't work and comedy would suffer. Discussion would be boring without generalisatoins and if everyone had to be precise all of the time (a seemingly growing expectation on here it seems).

Even though most generalisations are nonsense, there is more often than not an element of truth to them. Kriss Kross made a tongue in cheek remark and then clarified it with a reasonable response for which you branded him a racist.

Generally speaking, Africa is far more barbaric than Europe, that's to say the entire heterogeneity and diversity of people in that huge continent is more barbaric than Europe. The evidence is there: Mass sexual assault in Egypt, Lynchings in Mozambique, Widespread prevalence of FGM, Genocide in Rwanda, Mass amputations in Sierra Leone, some of the world's highest rates of violent crime in South Africa, land expropriation in Zimbabwe, widespread abuses of democracy. I could go on, so I will: Child sacrifice in Uganda, widespread practice of witchcraft in Sub Saharan Africa, the Osu caste system, Famine in Ethiopia, Ethnic cleansing in South Sudan, Kidnappings in Nigeria, the spread of Ebola through the practice of eating bush meat and handling of dead corpses, Beheadings in Libya, the widespread prevalence of slavery...

This list goes on and on and on. To label someone as racist for pointing this out is not only lazy, but thoroughly ignorant. That your fellow mod banned him in part for "racist" postings shows a lack judgement for which they should probably have a word with themselves.
The modship on the forum has become objectively unbalanced - the following was deemed a "personal attack" and therefore deleted.

Quote:
Of course not - maybe if you read the link you might have understood but of course no - not you.
and

Quote:
I don't you fool - read the post again. Did you notice the bit about white drink driving rates or any of the other facts that didn't hurt your delicate sensibilities ?
Meanwhile the likes of this are allowed to stand :

Quote:
View Post
Are you back on that old chestnut. What problem are you talking about? Cultural diversity? Ethnic minorities? Refugees? Islam? Sorry mr Bigot you are mixing a lot of different issues together into one bigoted rant.
How is that not a personal attack ??
Reply With Quote
This user groans at parnell for this post:
  #2782  
Old 06.08.2018, 13:59
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,257
Groaned at 179 Times in 130 Posts
Thanked 2,771 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
The modship on the forum has become objectively unbalanced - the following was deemed a "personal attack" and therefore deleted.

and



Meanwhile the likes of this are allowed to stand :



How is that not a personal attack ??
There is so much more I could call you, but bigot seems to be about right. Tbh if I was moderating the forum I would have banned you as you seem to want to propogate hate towards certain segments of society. Itnot by intelligent debate but through a constant stream of skewed data sets and alt-right info graphics and “new reports”, while you may argue that you are presenting the truth, your sources are usually highly biased. Every time a “refugee or immigrant” commits a crime in Europe you use it as evidence to back your claims, when in relation to actual crime rates those offenders that are “immigrants” remain relatively small. Just saying.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at TobiasM for this post:
  #2783  
Old 06.08.2018, 14:15
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,257
Groaned at 179 Times in 130 Posts
Thanked 2,771 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Generalisations are a good thing. Without them no one would ever get to the point, anecdotes would be never ending, jokes wouldn't work and comedy would suffer. Discussion would be boring without generalisatoins and if everyone had to be precise all of the time (a seemingly growing expectation on here it seems).

Even though most generalisations are nonsense, there is more often than not an element of truth to them. Kriss Kross made a tongue in cheek remark and then clarified it with a reasonable response for which you branded him a racist.

Generally speaking, Africa is far more barbaric than Europe, that's to say the entire heterogeneity and diversity of people in that huge continent is more barbaric than Europe. The evidence is there: Mass sexual assault in Egypt, Lynchings in Mozambique, Widespread prevalence of FGM, Genocide in Rwanda, Mass amputations in Sierra Leone, some of the world's highest rates of violent crime in South Africa, land expropriation in Zimbabwe, widespread abuses of democracy. I could go on, so I will: Child sacrifice in Uganda, widespread practice of witchcraft in Sub Saharan Africa, the Osu caste system, Famine in Ethiopia, Ethnic cleansing in South Sudan, Kidnappings in Nigeria, the spread of Ebola through the practice of eating bush meat and handling of dead corpses, Beheadings in Libya, the widespread prevalence of slavery...

This list goes on and on and on. To label someone as racist for pointing this out is not only lazy, but thoroughly ignorant. That your fellow mod banned him in part for "racist" postings shows a lack judgement for which they should probably have a word with themselves.
Er no. Sorry to tell you that generalisation is not always acceptable. It’s how it’s presented, if it’s negatively representative of a minority or denigrating them for others amusement that’s wrong. That’s not to say cultural stereotyping is always bad. But it’s how it’s used.

I feel that this topic has also been covered before and I quite get your anti-PC stance, I find the sanitized PC world can also be OTT, but in the end why do you feel it’s OK to offend somebody based on their culture or racial profile?
Reply With Quote
  #2784  
Old 06.08.2018, 14:34
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

I don't see the issue here, apart from people getting a little upset that their tails are being tweaked.

Everyone is free to generalise to their heart's content, go for it. Other people are free to call you on it, if it appears to be racist or bigoted. Don't complain, suck it up, that's the deal we have with our facsimile of free speech on here.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #2785  
Old 06.08.2018, 15:23
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,361
Groaned at 75 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
I don't see the issue here, apart from people getting a little upset that their tails are being tweaked.

Everyone is free to generalise to their heart's content, go for it. Other people are free to call you on it, if it appears to be racist or bigoted. Don't complain, suck it up, that's the deal we have with our facsimile of free speech on here.
100% agreed. I'm not threatened by people posting views I disagree with. When free speech starts getting censored because people don't agree with those views, that's when things start to get frightening.

The banter here is no worse than you see on TV political talk shows or whatever. Sometimes it rises above, and some intelligent debate happens, and sometimes it sinks below into mud-slinging. If you can't take the heat, don't enter the kitchen ...well, of course some personal attacks limits and forum rules withstanding....
Reply With Quote
  #2786  
Old 06.08.2018, 15:23
parnell's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 642
Groaned at 218 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 2,165 Times in 1,024 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
There is so much more I could call you, but bigot seems to be about right.
And you have - repeatedly - but all of those insults were personal attacks - regardless as to whether or not you believe the veracity of those claims. Either personal attacks are or are not against the forum rules.

Quote:
View Post
Tbh if I was moderating the forum I would have banned you as you seem to want to propogate hate towards certain segments of society. Itnot by intelligent debate but through a constant stream of skewed data sets and alt-right info graphics and “new reports”, while you may argue that you are presenting the truth, your sources are usually highly biased.
Thomas Sowell and governmental authorities are biased? Ok then.

Quote:
View Post
Every time a “refugee or immigrant” commits a crime in Europe you use it as evidence to back your claims, when in relation to actual crime rates those offenders that are “immigrants” remain relatively small. Just saying.
Completely wrong on all counts

Quote:
The crime rate among resident foreigners ("immigrant criminality") is significantly higher (by a factor 3.7 counting convictions under criminal law in 2003).[13] In 1997, there were for the first time more foreigners than Swiss among the convicts under criminal law (out of a fraction of 20.6% of the total population at the time). In 1999, the Federal Department of Justice and Police ordered a study regarding delinquency and nationality (Arbeitsgruppe "Ausländerkriminalität"), which in its final report (2001) found that a conviction rate under criminal law about 12 times higher among asylum seekers (4%), while the conviction rate among other resident foreigners was about twice as high (0.6%) compared to Swiss citizens (0.3%).[14]
It seems that truth is racist on here.
Reply With Quote
  #2787  
Old 06.08.2018, 15:26
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
And you have - repeatedly - but all of those insults were personal attacks - regardless as to whether or not you believe the veracity of those claims. Either personal attacks are or are not against the forum rules.
Fine line, innit? If you wrote something bigoted and he called you a bigot, it's probably just factual reporting and I'm sure you wouldn't object to being called that.
Reply With Quote
  #2788  
Old 06.08.2018, 15:38
parnell's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 642
Groaned at 218 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 2,165 Times in 1,024 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
Fine line, innit? If you wrote something bigoted and he called you a bigot, it's probably just factual reporting and I'm sure you wouldn't object to being called that.
It's not a fine line at all - he also did not call me a bigot in the instance quoted above. It is also a pejorative term and therefore by definition is a personal attack.
Reply With Quote
  #2789  
Old 06.08.2018, 15:53
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post

How is that not a personal attack ??
It is, quite clearly. Use the Report button and it will be removed. There are no double standards here, but we're not superhuman so rely on members bringing such things to our attention, rather than just using them to justify their own aggressive postings.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #2790  
Old 06.08.2018, 16:01
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,179
Groaned at 678 Times in 569 Posts
Thanked 23,267 Times in 12,214 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
The crime rate among resident foreigners ("immigrant criminality") is significantly higher (by a factor 3.7 counting convictions under criminal law in 2003).[13] In 1997, there were for the first time more foreigners than Swiss among the convicts under criminal law (out of a fraction of 20.6% of the total population at the time).
In 1999, the Federal Department of Justice and Police ordered a study regarding delinquency and nationality (Arbeitsgruppe "Ausländerkriminalität"), which in its final report (2001) found that a conviction rate under criminal law about 12 times higher among asylum seekers (4%), while the conviction rate among other resident foreigners was about twice as high (0.6%) compared to Swiss citizens (0.3%).[14]
[/URL]

It seems that truth is racist on here.
You know that these misleading statistics have often been discussed here?

There are more foreigners in prison because it is the practice here not to grant bail to accused foreigners awaiting trial whereas Swiss citizens can wait at home..

The conviction rate for foreigners is higher because the police usually let off first offences by Swiss citizens with a warning. They see this as crime prevention which is their main task.

Anyway these numbers are 20 years old, there are numbers available for last year
Reply With Quote
  #2791  
Old 06.08.2018, 16:17
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
It's not a fine line at all - he also did not call me a bigot in the instance quoted above. It is also a pejorative term and therefore by definition is a personal attack.
Plenty of people would use the term leftist in a pejorative manner on here too. I suspect you wouldn't complain at that term being used? A bigot is just someone being intolerant generally or intolerant of other people's views - if you are doing that (not judging here) then it isn't pejorative, is it? If you are doing it, it sounds like you are being a bit snowflakey complaining about it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #2792  
Old 06.08.2018, 16:18
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
You know that these misleading statistics have often been discussed here?

There are more foreigners in prison because it is the practice here not to grant bail to accused foreigners awaiting trial whereas Swiss citizens can wait at home..

The conviction rate for foreigners is higher because the police usually let off first offences by Swiss citizens with a warning. They see this as crime prevention which is their main task.

Anyway these numbers are 20 years old, there are numbers available for last year
I suspect local people have access to better defence representation and can also prepare themselves better, given that all documentation is in their mother tongue.

Imagine the state we'd be in, if we had to rely on the eejits on here to give us legal advice, and we are mainly educated people with a decent level of integration and local language skills!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #2793  
Old 06.08.2018, 16:24
My2pups's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Used to be Zurich
Posts: 1,706
Groaned at 94 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 1,989 Times in 870 Posts
My2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

I suggest you Google Voltaire...

Quote:
View Post
There is so much more I could call you, but bigot seems to be about right. Tbh if I was moderating the forum I would have banned you as you seem to want to propogate hate towards certain segments of society. Itnot by intelligent debate but through a constant stream of skewed data sets and alt-right info graphics and “new reports”, while you may argue that you are presenting the truth, your sources are usually highly biased. Every time a “refugee or immigrant” commits a crime in Europe you use it as evidence to back your claims, when in relation to actual crime rates those offenders that are “immigrants” remain relatively small. Just saying.
Reply With Quote
  #2794  
Old 06.08.2018, 16:27
My2pups's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Used to be Zurich
Posts: 1,706
Groaned at 94 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 1,989 Times in 870 Posts
My2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

I think many EFers would also wear the term "Leftist" as a badge of honor. I don't think you can say the same for the term bigot or the more loaded term racist.

Quote:
Plenty of people would use the term leftist in a pejorative manner on here too. I suspect you wouldn't complain at that term being used? A bigot is just someone being intolerant generally or intolerant of other people's views - if you are doing that (not judging here) then it isn't pejorative, is it? If you are doing it, it sounds like you are being a bit snowflakey complaining about it.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank My2pups for this useful post:
  #2795  
Old 06.08.2018, 16:37
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
I think many EFers would also wear the term "Leftist" as a badge of honor. I don't think you can say the same for the term bigot or the more loaded term racist.
Why ever not?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #2796  
Old 06.08.2018, 16:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
I think many EFers would also wear the term "Leftist" as a badge of honor. I don't think you can say the same for the term bigot or the more loaded term racist.
I suspect most of the people accused of being "leftist" on here, whatever it really means, probably don't care as it is a daft label which I am sure they don't believe applies to them. I am sure many of the bigots on here feel the same way, so what's the issue? Do bigots feel that being called a bigot is worse than being called a leftist? If so, why engage in bigotry and not leftism?
Reply With Quote
  #2797  
Old 06.08.2018, 16:42
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
I suggest you Google Voltaire...
What has overpriced beer in a Dada Bar got to do with this?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #2798  
Old 06.08.2018, 16:49
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 12,179
Groaned at 678 Times in 569 Posts
Thanked 23,267 Times in 12,214 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
I think many EFers would also wear the term "Leftist" as a badge of honor. I don't think you can say the same for the term bigot or the more loaded term racist.
Leftist is a generalisation that often does not apply, there are many shades of opinion that lazy people often concatenate und then use in a pejorative sense.

I have some liberal views but am not anti capitalist, for example.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #2799  
Old 06.08.2018, 16:54
parnell's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 642
Groaned at 218 Times in 140 Posts
Thanked 2,165 Times in 1,024 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
You know that these misleading statistics have often been discussed here?

There are more foreigners in prison because it is the practice here not to grant bail to accused foreigners awaiting trial whereas Swiss citizens can wait at home..

The conviction rate for foreigners is higher because the police usually let off first offences by Swiss citizens with a warning. They see this as crime prevention which is their main task.

Anyway these numbers are 20 years old, there are numbers available for last year
Can you please provide links with statistics to each of the three claims you make above ?
Reply With Quote
  #2800  
Old 06.08.2018, 16:54
My2pups's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Used to be Zurich
Posts: 1,706
Groaned at 94 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 1,989 Times in 870 Posts
My2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond reputeMy2pups has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Is it so difficult to understand?

TobiasM
Tbh if I was moderating the forum I would have banned you as you seem to want to propogate hate towards certain segments of society.

Quote:
What has overpriced beer in a Dada Bar got to do with this?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will borders with CH be affected after terrorist attacks? McTAVGE Daily life 19 15.11.2015 18:14
The All Muslims are evil thread bigblue2 General off-topic 4 27.08.2010 15:46
Confused about coverage in rest of Europe on Swiss Health Insurance Wingnut Insurance 8 15.12.2008 09:20


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0