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  #2821  
Old 07.08.2018, 12:44
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Go and work together with some cannibals. Write a book on how you get on.
Wow.
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  #2822  
Old 07.08.2018, 12:50
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Isn't that all a bit subjective? How can one culture be "better" than another?
I'd say if your culture doesn't involve eating other human beings than it's better than one which does.
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  #2823  
Old 07.08.2018, 13:01
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I'd say if your culture doesn't involve eating other human beings than it's better than one which does.
To be fair, most cultures have got ugly histories (and indeed present events still today) of appalling treatment, death and torture of humans so eating them, whilst abhorrent, is just another shitty human trait to add to the rest.

I know it sounds a bit #whataboutism but if the thread has plumbed the WTF-depths of cannibalism by this point then, meh.
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  #2824  
Old 07.08.2018, 14:10
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

How can people claim not to be bigots, when clearly they post ad-infinitum in refuelling a thread about Islam with any and every statistic or news report that paints a terrible picture of refugees, asylum seekers and immigrants and even pushing those boundaries by bringing in Black American society. What next Aboriginals in Australia? Native Americans?

It you want a debate about immigration, which does need a sensible debate, it would better done by people with more smarts then some of the posters here. It needs to carried out without prejudice and with intelligent discourse.
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  #2825  
Old 07.08.2018, 15:13
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Here's something interesting - the UK prison stats just released :

page 10 has the Irish as being 8% of foreign prisoners.... wonder how that is as against the total UK population. According to wiki there are 382,000 Irish-born people in the UK (pop 65m) - which means that as a whole we are a lot more naughty than Poles for example and by my reckoning worse than the Jamaicans.
Most notable to this thread is that the proportion of Muslim prisoners has increased from 8% in 2002 to 15% in 2018 (page 11).
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Old 07.08.2018, 15:16
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Here's something interesting - the UK prison stats just released :

page 10 has the Irish as being 8% of foreign prisoners.... wonder how that is as against the total UK population. According to wiki there are 382,000 Irish-born people in the UK (pop 65m) - which means that as a whole we are a lot more naughty than Poles for example and by my reckoning worse than the Jamaicans.
Most notable to this thread is that the proportion of Muslim prisoners has increased from 8% in 2002 to 15% in 2018 (page 11).
Would it muddy the waters if any of the Irish, Poles or Jamaicans were Muslims?

Statistics 101 - it means sweet FA if you don't use equal data sets (comparing nationalities then chucking in a religion as an equivalent set of data ). My maths teacher would have filled my book with red pen back in the day...
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  #2827  
Old 07.08.2018, 15:42
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Would it muddy the waters if any of the Irish, Poles or Jamaicans were Muslims?
Not unless you conflate birthplace with religion - I didnt do that - you shouldn't either.

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Statistics 101 - it means sweet FA if you don't use equal data sets (comparing nationalities then chucking in a religion as an equivalent set of data ). My maths teacher would have filled my book with red pen back in the day...
I couldn't link to the seperate sections of the pdf directly but put them into two different sentences so as not to confuse you.
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Old 07.08.2018, 15:46
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Not unless you conflate birthplace with religion - I didnt do that - you shouldn't either.
What was your point of including Irish, Poles and Jamaicans then? If you aren't making some kind of comparison then it's irrelevant and pointless.
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  #2829  
Old 07.08.2018, 15:47
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Not unless you conflate birthplace with religion - I didnt do that - you shouldn't either.


I couldn't link to the seperate sections of the pdf directly but put them into two different sentences so as not to confuse you.
How does it deal with people who convert whilst inside?
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  #2830  
Old 07.08.2018, 15:50
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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What was your point of including Irish, Poles and Jamaicans then? If you aren't making some kind of comparison then it's irrelevant and pointless.
The point is that statistics cannot harm anyone - they are not racist or xenophobic - and should not be seen as such. That was the point of including white immigrants as well as less white ones - so (in this case the UK) the receiving country could make objective decisions about who if anyone they should let immigrate - and similarly for Muslim as well as non-Muslims - that is the topic of this thread y'kno.
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  #2831  
Old 07.08.2018, 15:59
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Here's something interesting - the UK prison stats just released :

page 10 has the Irish as being 8% of foreign prisoners.... wonder how that is as against the total UK population. According to wiki there are 382,000 Irish-born people in the UK (pop 65m) - which means that as a whole we are a lot more naughty than Poles for example and by my reckoning worse than the Jamaicans.
Most notable to this thread is that the proportion of Muslim prisoners has increased from 8% in 2002 to 15% in 2018 (page 11).
Generally speaking, if you compare two similarly developed countries, say Ireland and France, you will find that the French are overrepresented in Irish prisons and the Irish in French prisons. This is far from new, some of the reasons for this phenomenon have been mentioned ad nauseam in the threads you frequent.

The British in Irish prisons may be an exception to this rule for historical reasons. But then again, perhaps not.
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  #2832  
Old 07.08.2018, 16:01
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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The point is that statistics cannot harm anyone - they are not racist or xenophobic - and should not be seen as such. That was the point of including white immigrants as well as less white ones - so (in this case the UK) the receiving country could make objective decisions about who if anyone they should let immigrate - and similarly for Muslim as well as non-Muslims - that is the topic of this thread y'kno.
Still a bit of an odd way of looking at Muslims (topic of the thread...).
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  #2833  
Old 07.08.2018, 16:08
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Generally speaking, if you compare two similarly developed countries, say Ireland and France, you will find that the French are overrepresented in Irish prisons and the Irish in French prisons.
Can you provide any evidence for that ? Genuinely interested.
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This is far from new, some of the reasons for this phenomenon have been mentioned ad nauseam in the threads you frequent.
Again I'm not familiar with this "phenemenon" but keen to see evidence.

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The British in Irish prisons may be an exception to this rule for historical reasons. But then again, perhaps not.
If anything I had expected the Irish to be over-represented due to the amount of anti-British sentiment many of them bear as well as the large number of ethnically Irish travellers who have been extremely difficult to manage in both countries.
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  #2834  
Old 07.08.2018, 16:16
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Still a bit of an odd way of looking at Muslims (topic of the thread...).
Of course but the contention of at least one poster is that by posting stats one is a bigot or a racist - I firmly believe this not to be true and certainly have no problem if someone highlights the criminality visited by my own particular crowd. In fact the reverse is true - if I think it's going on around me you can be sure I'd be mentioning it to all my countrywomen and men that they were letting the side down.

This is exactly the approach taken by Maajid Nawaz in relation to Pakistani grooming gangs in the UK - an approach I think should be commended and not villified as has happened in wider society and even on this board.

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  #2835  
Old 07.08.2018, 16:17
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Here's something interesting - the UK prison stats just released :

page 10 has the Irish as being 8% of foreign prisoners.... wonder how that is as against the total UK population. According to wiki there are 382,000 Irish-born people in the UK (pop 65m) - which means that as a whole we are a lot more naughty than Poles for example and by my reckoning worse than the Jamaicans.
Most notable to this thread is that the proportion of Muslim prisoners has increased from 8% in 2002 to 15% in 2018 (page 11).
"Most notable to this thread is that the proportion of Muslim prisoners has increased from 8% in 2002 to 15% in 2018" Thanks for this good news that only this increase while the number of Muslims in the population has doubled.
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  #2836  
Old 07.08.2018, 16:22
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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The point is that statistics cannot harm anyone - they are not racist or xenophobic - and should not be seen as such. That was the point of including white immigrants as well as less white ones - so (in this case the UK) the receiving country could make objective decisions about who if anyone they should let immigrate - and similarly for Muslim as well as non-Muslims - that is the topic of this thread y'kno.
You do know Islam is a religion so non-Muslims could be allowed to immigrate under your objective rules and then later convert to Islam and even locals convert; or would you propose deportation in such cases?
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  #2837  
Old 07.08.2018, 16:23
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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"Most notable to this thread is that the proportion of Muslim prisoners has increased from 8% in 2002 to 15% in 2018" Thanks for this good news that only this increase while the number of Muslims in the population has doubled.
Do you have a source for that please ? Also do you agree this is a massive over-representation since in 2001 only 3% of the UK population were Muslim?
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  #2838  
Old 07.08.2018, 16:27
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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You do know Islam is a religion so non-Muslims could be allowed to immigrate under your objective rules and then later convert to Islam and even locals convert; or would you propose deportation in such cases?
I propose responsibility in all cases - if any section of society is seen as bringing undue net costs on their hosts (as can be objectively determined by statistical evidence) then it should be right of the host society to implement all measures to recoup or at the very least reduce those costs.
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Old 07.08.2018, 16:39
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I propose responsibility in all cases - if any section of society is seen as bringing undue net costs on their hosts (as can be objectively determined by statistical evidence) then it should be right of the host society to implement all measures to recoup or at the very least reduce those costs.
How far do you propose to take this? Foreigners create more crime, so we deport all foreigners and don't allow any in? Irish create more crime, etc etc.

This is the whole crux though, isn't it. Treating people as individuals rather than as a homogenous group of <religion x>, <race y>, or <nationality z> - if as a law abiding, tax paying, positive contributing Irishman you got deported because a few of your countrymen kept getting eggy after a few too many bevvies, don't you think that is ridiculous and unfair?
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  #2840  
Old 07.08.2018, 16:44
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Do you have a source for that please ? Also do you agree this is a massive over-representation since in 2001 only 3% of the UK population were Muslim?
According to Pew research here there were 4.1 Million Muslims in UK in 2016
In 2001 there were 1.6 Million according to the UK office for National Statistics here so the Muslim population has likely trebled!

"do you agree this is a massive over-representation" impossible to speculate without more detail on the actual offences. For example, if most Muslims are in prison for immigration offences then it is not a fair comparison with locals who cannot commit such offences.
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