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  #2861  
Old 07.08.2018, 20:29
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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The point is that statistics cannot harm anyone - they are not racist or xenophobic - and should not be seen as such. That was the point of including white immigrants as well as less white ones - so (in this case the UK) the receiving country could make objective decisions about who if anyone they should let immigrate - and similarly for Muslim as well as non-Muslims - that is the topic of this thread y'kno.
True, statistics cannot harm anyone but if they are incorrectly used or misunderstood then then they can cause harm.
To quote again;
Quote:
“Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.”
― Aaron Levenstein
It is not enough to simply quote the headline numbers; to quote statistics properly you need to dig into them, understand the definitions used, how the numbers are calculated and what is meant.
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  #2862  
Old 07.08.2018, 21:25
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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And you have - repeatedly - but all of those insults were personal attacks - regardless as to whether or not you believe the veracity of those claims. Either personal attacks are or are not against the forum rules.



Thomas Sowell and governmental authorities are biased? Ok then.
Quote:
The crime rate among resident foreigners ("immigrant criminality") is significantly higher (by a factor 3.7 counting convictions under criminal law in 2003).[13] In 1997, there were for the first time more foreigners than Swiss among the convicts under criminal law (out of a fraction of 20.6% of the total population at the time). In 1999, the Federal Department of Justice and Police ordered a study regarding delinquency and nationality (Arbeitsgruppe "Ausländerkriminalität"), which in its final report (2001) found that a conviction rate under criminal law about 12 times higher among asylum seekers (4%), while the conviction rate among other resident foreigners was about twice as high (0.6%) compared to Swiss citizens (0.3%).[14]
Completely wrong on all counts

It seems that truth is racist on here.
Fine example here of not understanding the statistics you quote
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there were for the first time more foreigners than Swiss among the convicts under criminal law (out of a fraction of 20.6% of the total population at the time)
You do not mention that half of these foreigners in prison were here illegally without permits so were not part of the 20.6% legally here of the total population that you are trying to compare these numbers with.

There is also the fact that 40% of prisoners who are in Swiss prisons are awaiting trial so have not been found guilty of anything.
Source

Now your comparison looks completely different, oder?
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  #2863  
Old 13.09.2018, 16:02
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Interesting piece today in the New Statesman about the state of journalism when it comes to reporting on Muslim-related stories.

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When a paper that is not a tabloid, and which has a respectable investigations team, publishes four erroneous front page stories and makes no effort to explain itself, what is it left with? Are these people still journalists? If you cannot meet basic standards of honesty and accuracy, which is your actual job, nor make amends when you do not, are you still a journalist?]
All about clicks and shares, and the climate where Muslim stories facilitate the most clicks and shares seem to have made such articles exempt from accepted journalistic standards to the point where facts are replaced with dog-whistle fantasy.
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  #2864  
Old 13.09.2018, 16:15
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Fine example here of not understanding the statistics you quote


You do not mention that half of these foreigners in prison were here illegally without permits so were not part of the 20.6% legally here of the total population that you are trying to compare these numbers with.
The study does not find that the 20.6% of the population were all legal - where do you derive this from ?

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There is also the fact that 40% of prisoners who are in Swiss prisons are awaiting trial so have not been found guilty of anything.
Source
Did you ever consider the rate of recidivism before you made such a statement ?

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Now your comparison looks completely different, oder?
Why?
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  #2865  
Old 16.09.2018, 17:38
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

And in a new story that will shock everyone another NGO has been caught people smuggling for bringing in 70,000 illegals every year via Greece earning up to 500m euro per year.

I'm truly surprised that the likes of the BBC hasn't picked up on this scandal...

Quote:
On August 28, thirty members of the Greek NGO Emergency Response Centre International (ERCI) were arrested for their involvement in a people-smuggling network that has been operating on the island of Lesbos since 2015. According to a statement released by Greek police, as a result of the investigation that led to the arrests, "The activities of an organised criminal network that systematically facilitated the illegal entry of foreigners were fully exposed."

Among the activities uncovered were forgery, espionage and the illegal monitoring of both the Greek coastguard and the EU border agency, Frontex, for the purpose of gleaning confidential information about Turkish refugee flows. The investigation also led to the discovery of an additional six Greeks and 24 foreign nationals implicated in the case...
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  #2866  
Old 16.09.2018, 18:31
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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And in a new story that will shock everyone another NGO has been caught people smuggling for bringing in 70,000 illegals every year via Greece earning up to 500m euro per year.

I'm truly surprised that the likes of the BBC hasn't picked up on this scandal...
It is in the Irish Times, what more do you expect

Most reputable outlets are treating it as a crack down on humanitarian organisations rather than the dubious claim of a money making criminal network!
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  #2867  
Old 16.09.2018, 18:50
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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It is in the Irish Times, what more do you expect

Most reputable outlets are treating it as a crack down on humanitarian organisations rather than the dubious claim of a money making criminal network!
Completely different slant with no indication in the IT of how much money was taken from the "refugees" or how many people were smuggled illegally - try harder.
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  #2868  
Old 16.09.2018, 20:05
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Completely different slant with no indication in the IT of how much money was taken from the "refugees" or how many people were smuggled illegally - try harder.
According to your link half a billion euros per year, you should not believe everything you read
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  #2869  
Old 16.09.2018, 23:32
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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According to your link half a billion euros per year, you should not believe everything you read
It's a basic assumption these days that whatever agenda you're following there will always be a 'news' site that supports it. Crackpots just love to quote other crackpots, as if their very existence proves themselves right.
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  #2870  
Old 17.09.2018, 10:05
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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It's a basic assumption these days that whatever agenda you're following there will always be a 'news' site that supports it. Crackpots just love to quote other crackpots, as if their very existence proves themselves right.
That is why I quoted a source which included links to the original Greek newspaper articles. The Irish Times' nickname in Ireland is the "Immigration Times" for it's hard left slant.
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  #2871  
Old 17.09.2018, 15:45
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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That is why I quoted a source which included links to the original Greek newspaper articles. The Irish Times' nickname in Ireland is the "Immigration Times" for it's hard left slant.
Nothing in the original Greek newspaper articles about half a million euros

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Pakistani prime minister to grant citizenship to 1.5 million Afghan refugees
Source
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  #2872  
Old 17.09.2018, 16:07
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I'm truly surprised that the likes of the BBC hasn't picked up on this scandal...
The BBC covered the story on 31 August...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45366329

Ekathimerini, which is one of the most read Greek news sites, also covered the story on 31 August, by posting the Reuters article...

http://www.ekathimerini.com/232174/a...ce-says-lawyer

...and the most recent article about her situation, and that of others like her, was posted here on 16 September...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...094948176.html

Now, what was the point that you're trying to make?
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  #2873  
Old 17.09.2018, 16:13
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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That is why I quoted a source which included links to the original Greek newspaper articles.
You didn't really quote anything, you just linked to some dodgy pressure group's article as if it was in itself a reputable source of news. As I said, you can aways find some crackpot site to support your views, but that's not the same thing at all as making any sort of convincing argument for them.

If you wanted to quote the Greek news articles then why didn't you just do so?
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  #2874  
Old 17.09.2018, 16:15
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Now, what was the point that you're trying to make?
I suspect it is that "I'm totally not racist, because I can totally quote totally valid sources to totally back up my biases".
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  #2875  
Old 17.09.2018, 16:33
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I suspect it is that "I'm totally not racist, because I can totally quote totally valid sources to totally back up my biases".
Or... "I was really bored and had to do some serious digging to find an article to post in this thread.", or..."I subscribe to Aljazeera and noticed this article yesterday." Hmmm...
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  #2876  
Old 17.09.2018, 16:53
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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That is why I quoted a source which included links to the original Greek newspaper articles. The Irish Times' nickname in Ireland is the "Immigration Times" for it's hard left slant.
Well, Rebekah Mercer who is part of the billionaire US Mercer family is member of the board, they also provide financing for the enterprise (at least they reportedly did until 2017, according to Wiki. That info got removed but that need not mean the financing's gone).

But anyway, a 2.3mln annual budget (for 2016) doesn't really make this a reputable news outlet. If this was financed by Russia instead you'd probably classify them as Putin trolls and bots.
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  #2877  
Old 17.09.2018, 18:05
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Well, Rebekah Mercer who is part of the billionaire US Mercer family is member of the board, they also provide financing for the enterprise (at least they reportedly did until 2017, according to Wiki. That info got removed but that need not mean the financing's gone).

But anyway, a 2.3mln annual budget (for 2016) doesn't really make this a reputable news outlet. If this was financed by Russia instead you'd probably classify them as Putin trolls and bots.
This will be the Mercer family who also finance another reputable news outlet; Breitbart!
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  #2878  
Old 17.09.2018, 21:30
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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You didn't really quote anything, you just linked to some dodgy pressure group's article as if it was in itself a reputable source of news.
Post #2865 doesn't contain quotes of the article and not just the link ??

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As I said, you can aways find some crackpot site to support your views, but that's not the same thing at all as making any sort of convincing argument for them.
Which again is why you can refer at your leisure to the links to the Greek news websites underneath the article.

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If you wanted to quote the Greek news articles then why didn't you just do so?
Because this is a website for English speaking people in Switzerland - have a look at the forum's name there and educate yourself a bit.
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  #2879  
Old 17.09.2018, 21:38
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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The BBC covered the story on 31 August...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45366329
The headline of the BBC article is :
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Europe migrant crisis: Sister of Syria star swimmer Yusra Mardini arrested in Greece
Ekathimerini, which is one of the most read Greek news sites, also covered the story on 31 August, by posting the Reuters article...

http://www.ekathimerini.com/232174/a...ce-says-lawyer

Headline :
Quote:
Syrian swimmer who saved refugees arrested in Greece, says lawyer
...and the most recent article about her situation, and that of others like her, was posted here on 16 September...

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/...094948176.html

HEadline :
Quote:
Refugee advocates blast arrests of rescue workers in Greece
which rather contrast with the headline of the article I quoted :

Quote:
Greece: "Humanitarian Aid" Organization's People-Smuggling
Now, what was the point that you're trying to make?[/QUOTE]

The very fact that you acknowledge that the subject of the three articles you quote is the fate of the swimmer or her sister RATHER than the Greece smuggling ring should tell you that there is quite some difference.

No doubt you failed to notice that neither the swimmer nor her sister were referred to at all in the gatestone article but according to you the articles are apparently quite the same ??
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  #2880  
Old 17.09.2018, 21:40
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Post #2865 doesn't contain quotes of the article and not just the link ??

Which again is why you can refer at your leisure to the links to the Greek news websites underneath the article.

Because this is a website for English speaking people in Switzerland - have a look at the forum's name there and educate yourself a bit.
The Greek news links in the article were to English language items.

You did not quote the Greek news links directly in your post because they did not confirm the sensational and excessive slant in your post?
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