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  #461  
Old 16.08.2016, 16:39
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Or those turban and/or Dhoti wearing Indians?

Of course the Jews gave up terrorism a long time ago
1948 is not that long ago really.
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  #462  
Old 16.08.2016, 16:40
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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The effect of coercion often is a calm surface but the repulsion underneath, perhaps even thirst for revenge, remains or even increases. The more people are subjected to these effects the more likely we are to help foster the next extremists, to not say terrorists. We've seen enough examples in the recent past where pressure has built over time until the attacker exploded.
Link to examples please.
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  #463  
Old 16.08.2016, 17:01
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Perhaps (not sure), but that's a rather poor reason for any ban. We call ourselves (relatively) free, with religious and personal freedom being among the topmost priorities. I don't see how a burka/niqab ban can be justified considering the fact that a ban of covering one's face during a "Demo" (?march?) has been rejected multiple times on the federal level.

Integration doesn't happen because coercion is used, what it does take is contact, talk, education, etc. to have people leave their individual bubble - a carrot if you will. For those few where that doesn't work I have no problems at all with using power, but that should be the exception rather than the rule.

The effect of coercion often is a calm surface but the repulsion underneath, perhaps even thirst for revenge, remains or even increases. The more people are subjected to these effects the more likely we are to help foster the next extremists, to not say terrorists. We've seen enough examples in the recent past where pressure has built over time until the attacker exploded.

I really don't understand how people aren't getting this.
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  #464  
Old 16.08.2016, 17:08
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Burkas are a symptom and not the disease, that's why banning them doesn't help equality. A husband who forces his wife to wear one and (mis)treats her accordingly won't change his behavior, nor will she suddenly feel empowered.
So by the same thinking, banning the KKK from wearing hoods or from burning crosses would not at all contribute to racial harmony?

After all, you're only banning the symptom, not the disease.
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  #465  
Old 16.08.2016, 17:08
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Yep. Isis, or muslim persecution of minorities in pakistan... or saudi arabia.mm you name it. There is a disproportionate amount of religious enabled violence. Or repressive action.

Is there?


Statistics have proven time and again that you are far more likely to be killed through terrorism, by a right wing fanatic than a Muslim terrorist. And, for sure, there are far fewer right wing fanatics compared to the number of Muslims on the planet.


Government sanctioned repressive action is usually politically motivated, and rarely is religion the only motivation for such action. Saudi Arabia needs to maintain the Wahhabi/Salafi sect in power, and they do that by manipulation of not only religious texts, but bastardisation of the mosques in Mecca and Madina. the vast majority of Muslims disagree entirely with that crooked government and its corruption and nepotism. But in such a society (enabled, one might add, through decades of business with western governments) there is no real recourse open to those who disagree.


People need to understand that religion can be used to keep a population blind to the weaknesses of the governing faction, and most often, is. Whether that is shoring up support by claiming adherence to a religion, or nominating a religion for everyone to draw their ire on, and save the governing faction from said ire. Im guessing Corsica was not a palatial paradise, prior to the arrival of the burkha brigade.


There are maybe 3 governments in the middle east I would say that aren't using religion as an opiate for their population, the rest are happy to do so if it means lengthening their own dynasty and maintaining their spot at the top table.
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  #466  
Old 16.08.2016, 17:10
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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So by the same thinking, banning the KKK from wearing hoods or from burning crosses would not at all contribute to racial harmony?

After all, you're only banning the symptom, not the disease.

Im pretty sure if you banned the burning of crosses, they would be just as happy burning cars. The fact that it is illegal isn't going to stop them being part of the KKK.


Preferably with their black owners inside them.
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  #467  
Old 16.08.2016, 17:11
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Statistics have proven time and again that you are far more likely to be killed through terrorism, by a right wing fanatic than a Muslim terrorist. And, for sure, there are far fewer right wing fanatics compared to the number of Muslims on the planet.

Isn't Islamic terrorism actually a form of right wing terrorism? They are fighting for divisons between people, and for old fashioned and misunderstood values etc. Sounds pretty right wing to me.
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  #468  
Old 16.08.2016, 17:13
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Source for your statisticS (plural since you say time and tine agan).

So ahmadiyya muslims are being targetted purely for political reasons?
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  #469  
Old 16.08.2016, 17:16
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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But that's the point - passing laws to control a tiny minority of a population, within a separate greater population, rarely ends well.
such as laws against drunk driving, tax evasion, banning fox hunting.
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  #470  
Old 16.08.2016, 17:19
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Oh, just an update for you all.


In addition to the imam and his priest gunned down in the street earlier this week, there has been more casualties:


http://heavy.com/news/2016/08/khalid...facebook-page/


The suspect thought the victim was a muslim. Despite protestations that he wasnt, the suspect was still happy to gun him down on his porch:


A statement released on August 14 by Jabara’s sister, Victoria, says that in the past Majors had referred to their family as “Dirty Arabs.” While a separate statement, from the Jabara family, says that Majors had issues with their other neighbors, referring to one as a “filthy Mexican” and another using “the ‘n’ word” to describe another. Other epitaphs that family say Majors threw at them were, “filthy Lebanese,” “Aye-rabs,” and “Mooslems.”


and you know what? No one is calling him a terrorist.




Tell me again how passing laws to prevent women dressing a certain way will make this shitty world a better place?
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  #471  
Old 16.08.2016, 17:25
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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such as laws against drunk driving, tax evasion, banning fox hunting.

Drunk driving - public safety. Drunk drivers are more likely to kill people because they go out of control while in control of heavy machinery.


Tax evasion - literally, not paying your fair share in society. Unfair, if you withdraw the same from society.


Fox hunting - cruelty to animals.


wearing a burkini...?


Remind me, who is killed when a woman wears a burkini?
Are the burkinis purchased from a mega corporation based in the cayman islands?
Or are there millions of neoprene-skinned foxes being butchered to make the burkinis?


Don't try to be so disingenuous.
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  #472  
Old 16.08.2016, 17:26
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Isn't Islamic terrorism actually a form of right wing terrorism? They are fighting for divisons between people, and for old fashioned and misunderstood values etc. Sounds pretty right wing to me.
Ask Anders Breivik if he would describe himself as a muslim?
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  #473  
Old 16.08.2016, 17:59
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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So by the same thinking, banning the KKK from wearing hoods or from burning crosses would not at all contribute to racial harmony?

After all, you're only banning the symptom, not the disease.
How many people have been killed by burkas?
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  #474  
Old 16.08.2016, 18:03
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Tell me again how passing laws to prevent women dressing a certain way will make this shitty world a better place?
ill tell you when you tell me how islam makes this shitty world a better place.

imagine if you will:
tomorrow. line in the sand. side A is a land with no islam whatsoever, side B is a land that may be influenced or ruled by islamic values. everybody gets to choose once and for all with no further contact between sides.

win-win right? or who loses what?
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  #475  
Old 16.08.2016, 19:15
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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ill tell you when you tell me how islam makes this shitty world a better place.

imagine if you will:
tomorrow. line in the sand. side A is a land with no islam whatsoever, side B is a land that may be influenced or ruled by islamic values. everybody gets to choose once and for all with no further contact between sides.

win-win right? or who loses what?
"tomorrow. line in the sand. " We will need a lot of space for everybody so how about Empty Quarter (Rub' al Khali)- the world's largest sand desert and covering much of Saudi Arabia, Oman, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen?
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  #476  
Old 16.08.2016, 19:38
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

fine by me.
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  #477  
Old 16.08.2016, 19:41
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

One of the UK's most infamous radical clerics has been convicted of inviting others to support the so-called Islamic State, it can now be reported. Police said Anjem Choudary, 49, had stayed "just within the law" for years, but was arrested in 2014 after pledging allegiance to the militant group.
Many people tried for serious terror offences were influenced by his social media posts and speeches, police said.
Choudary was convicted alongside confidant Mohammed Mizanur Rahman. Scentencing for both will be on 6th September 2016 in London.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37098751
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  #478  
Old 16.08.2016, 20:41
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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One of the UK's most infamous radical clerics has been convicted of inviting others to support the so-called Islamic State, it can now be reported. Police said Anjem Choudary, 49, had stayed "just within the law" for years, but was arrested in 2014 after pledging allegiance to the militant group.
Many people tried for serious terror offences were influenced by his social media posts and speeches, police said.
Choudary was convicted alongside confidant Mohammed Mizanur Rahman. Scentencing for both will be on 6th September 2016 in London.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37098751
This Anjem Choudhury?











There are many who believe he is an MI5 asset who acts as a honeypot to lure in the real radicals. Once in his circle they're a lot easier to track and hopefully stop before they do anything stupid. What gives credence to these theories were the apparent impunity he had to say the craziest shit for years whilst others were locked up for saying far less. The other apparent giveaway was his lack of any religious training and his reliance on others e.g. Omar Bakri for verses and arguments to back up his rhetoric.

Would be interesting to see if he serves his time in general circulation or solitary.
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  #479  
Old 17.08.2016, 00:14
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Drunk driving - public safety. Drunk drivers are more likely to kill people because they go out of control while in control of heavy machinery.


Tax evasion - literally, not paying your fair share in society. Unfair, if you withdraw the same from society.


Fox hunting - cruelty to animals.


wearing a burkini...?


Remind me, who is killed when a woman wears a burkini?
Are the burkinis purchased from a mega corporation based in the cayman islands?
Or are there millions of neoprene-skinned foxes being butchered to make the burkinis?


Don't try to be so disingenuous.
i was only responding to the seeping generalization that laws that affect a minority are always ineffective and always backfire.
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  #480  
Old 17.08.2016, 09:09
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Your comment would make sense in the very short thread discussing Ultra orthodox terrorist attacks.

Ultra Orthodox jewish values are also alien to current western thinking. but they keep their values to themselves and don't expect others to conform to them. They are usually extremly non violent.
Sorry to disagree again with you.
-Palestinian baby burned by nationalist Ultra Orthodox
- Teenager killed at Gay Pride and others stabbed by Ultra orthodox
- Modesty patrols violence against women and shops open on Shabatt.
- Hasidic violence in NY against black gay man
- Police refuses to enter Mea'Sharim because of violent ultra orthodox residents
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