Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #501  
Old 17.08.2016, 11:47
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 6,601
Groaned at 298 Times in 204 Posts
Thanked 15,267 Times in 4,675 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Having lived with lovely hijab-wearing women in the last few weeks has really opened my eyes to its attractiveness and understanding of it. As long as one wears a niqab as a personal choice, it's a lovely way to proclaim one's faith and belief. As soon as it becomes forced, it loses its attractiveness and personal identity.

I asked these very tolerant and open-minded Egyptian women about their views on niqabs. They replied as long as it was a personal choice, they will respect the women who wear the although they don't always understand why anyone would want to. However, as soon as niqabs are forced upon women, then the problem lies not with the piece of clothing but with relationship between the husband and wife or with the society in which they live.

The difference between hijabs, niqabs, burkas, etc. http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241
__________________
Faith isn't about everything turning out okay. Faith is about being okay no matter how things turn out.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #502  
Old 17.08.2016, 11:54
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 474
Groaned at 228 Times in 164 Posts
Thanked 1,821 Times in 1,001 Posts
Pashosh is considered unworthyPashosh is considered unworthyPashosh is considered unworthy
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Lol. Israel calls itself the Jewish state. That not political at all, is it?
Israel is a democratic country for Jews, not a theocracy.

It's beaches have this:


and this:

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Pashosh for this useful post:
  #503  
Old 17.08.2016, 11:54
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,263
Groaned at 183 Times in 131 Posts
Thanked 2,771 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
So the fact they joined before they discovered religion means that religion was a major factor for them to join ISIS in the first place? what sorcery is that? Have ISIS discovered time travel?


For gods sake man, read the article. Nobody is saying there aren't religious men and women in ISIS - the point is that most don't understand their own religion well enough to know what to do, and ISIS takes advantage of that.
Well the Independent is not better then Huff Post or Vice, so I wouldn't take much of what is said on there too seriously.

I doubt very much that the people who join IS are not aware of their religion, they might not be scholarly at it though, most christened Christians have probably never read the Bible either. I don't think many of IS are actually recent converts to Islam, just Muslims that never really practiced their faith enough to understand that IS is not what Islam is about.

A lot of Muslims feel repressed by a post 9/11 world where being a young Muslim man has castigated and disenfranchised them, thus pushing those that were not particularly religious into the hands of extremist by reinforcing the "us" vs "them" situation.
Reply With Quote
  #504  
Old 17.08.2016, 12:01
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,210
Groaned at 86 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Israeli Muslim Arabs are much more likely to commit violent crime than any other group. Israeli Christian Arabs much less likely.

btw - Religious Muslim women and relgious Jewish orthodox women wear very modest swimming clothes. never caused problems.
You know perfectly that education level is higher among Palestinian christians than Palestinian muslims. Wouldn't a wise person like you conclude that violence is consequence of lack of education instead of "religious" or "racial" reasons?

Quote:
View Post
cherry picking headlines is easy, but the numbers tell a different story.Ultra orthodox jews rarely commit violent crime (Murder is very rare in Ultra orthdox communities).

Religious Muslims, unfortunately, commit violent crimes and their victims number in the millions - Alegria alone suffered at least 100,000. you can continue in alphbetic order.

The difference is that Islam is a political religion, seeking influence in the world.

The Burka/Burkini/Hijab/Niqab is seen (possibly wrongly), as the "uniform" of Islamism, hence the legislation.
Your depiction of ultra-orthodox community as perfect is unfortunately not related to reality. Violent crimes are not higher than other communities but also not lower. Several sexual abuse against children, violence against those who want to leave the ultra-orthodox community, gang violence against women by modesty patrols are very very well known and common in Jerusalem. Several recent statements by ultra-orthodox rabbis raise serious questions about future co-existence with secular israeli jews....not speaking here at all about Arabs or palestinians.


Burka/Burkini/Niqab should be banned for security reasons, and it's not mentioned anywhere in the Quran. Those who want to wear Hijab should do it if it's their own wish. Hijab is not mentioned in Quran as well...it says that women should show "modesty"....how to do it is open for interpretation.
__________________
Resist, support, donate: ACLU
They tried to bury us, they did not know that we are seeds (Mexican proverb)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MrVertigo for this useful post:
  #505  
Old 17.08.2016, 12:06
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
@ Richdog, I don't think anyone would deny (not even the PC brigade) that "IS/Daesh" are not extremist religious fundamentalist Islamic nutters.

You miss the point, and that is that IS does not represent the majority of moderate mainstream Islamic or Muslim society. It represents a small and very dangerous fundamentalist ideology. The fact that it has a willing and dedicated leadership and it manages to indoctrinate weak minded, uneducated and disenfranchised Muslim men and women and children into their ideology doesn't change the fact that they are not representative of all Muslims.

I don't particularly like any religion, I am a hardcore atheist. However I wholeheartedly agree that people should be allowed to practice their religious beliefs whatever they may be, but they should do it peacefully and without judgement on others and should of course follow secular law, especially in societies that are not based on religion.

This - exactly, thanks.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #506  
Old 17.08.2016, 12:09
Pashosh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Baden
Posts: 474
Groaned at 228 Times in 164 Posts
Thanked 1,821 Times in 1,001 Posts
Pashosh is considered unworthyPashosh is considered unworthyPashosh is considered unworthy
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
You know perfectly that education level is higher among Palestinian christians than Palestinian muslims. Wouldn't a wise person like you conclude that violence is consequence of lack of education instead of "religious" or "racial" reasons?

Your depiction of ultra-orthodox community as perfect is unfortunately not related to reality. ...

Burka/Burkini/Niqab should be banned for security reasons, and it's not mentioned anywhere in the Quran. Those who want to wear Hijab should do it if it's their own wish. Hijab is not mentioned in Quran as well...it says that women should show "modesty"....how to do it is open for interpretation.
Thank you for the compliment.

Education is a chicvken and egg question: Why are Christian arabs more educated ? nobody is stopping anyone from getting an education based on his/her religion.

Ultra orthodox Jews have their faults, yet they are a lot less violent then most communities, and the numbers prove it.
Reply With Quote
  #507  
Old 17.08.2016, 12:13
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,717
Groaned at 1,063 Times in 733 Posts
Thanked 18,104 Times in 7,045 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
@ Richdog, I don't think anyone would deny (not even the PC brigade) that "IS/Daesh" are not extremist religious fundamentalist Islamic nutters.

You miss the point, and that is that IS does not represent the majority of moderate mainstream Islamic or Muslim society. It represents a small and very dangerous fundamentalist ideology. The fact that it has a willing and dedicated leadership and it manages to indoctrinate weak minded, uneducated and disenfranchised Muslim men and women and children into their ideology doesn't change the fact that they are not representative of all Muslims.
Are you actually being serious? Where did I give ANY indication that I thought ISIS represented all of the Muslim world? Seriously, the reason I didn't even click on to that implication in J2488's posts (if it was even there) is because it never entered my mind in the discussion. I have never said or implied such a thing, and to do so would be patently ridiculous.

Seriously guys, I am genuinely concerned for some of your reading comprehension skills. Either that, or some people are so rabid in their arguments that they are ignoring very basic common sense and seeing what they want to see.

It is genuinely baffling.

Last edited by Chuff; 17.08.2016 at 12:25.
Reply With Quote
  #508  
Old 17.08.2016, 12:16
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,263
Groaned at 183 Times in 131 Posts
Thanked 2,771 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Are you actually being serious? Where did I give ANY indication that I thought ISIS represented all of the Muslim world? Seriously, the reason I didn't even click on to that implication in J2488's posts (if it was even there) is because it never entered my mind in the discussion. I have never said or implied such a thing, and to do so would be patently ridiculous.

Seriously guys, I am genuinely concerned for some of your reading comprehension skills. Either that, or some people are so rabid in their arguments that they are ignoring very basic common sense and seeing what they want to see.

It is genuinely baffling.
Yeah sorry I was referring to you in just the first paragraph, the PC brigade comment. I'll edit that a bit so it doesn't seem so skewed.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TobiasM for this useful post:
  #509  
Old 17.08.2016, 12:24
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,717
Groaned at 1,063 Times in 733 Posts
Thanked 18,104 Times in 7,045 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Yeah sorry I was referring to you in just the first paragraph, the PC brigade comment. I'll edit that a bit so it doesn't seem so skewed.
Thanks Tobias, you had me scratching my head a little there.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #510  
Old 17.08.2016, 12:32
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,263
Groaned at 183 Times in 131 Posts
Thanked 2,771 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Ultra orthodox Jews have their faults, yet they are a lot less violent then most communities, and the numbers prove it.
I disagree Ultra orthodox settlers, who openly carry machine guns and police their communities targeting non Jewish Arabs regardless of the law is a regular occurrence, and in Israel the military is regularly filmed committing nasty acts against Palestinian civilians.

Its a fine line between the extremists on both sides. They both consider the other the mortal enemy of their respective religions, and they both teach this to their children, thus maintaining the status quo.

I would agree that there are more likely to be more Palestinians with an absolute hatred of Israel and that teach their children that sentiment, but if you were born into and grew up in a repressed society that is run by religious nut cases, and taught to hate those that you see are repressing you, then you are certainly more likely to think or behave like one. (I am no way condoning the violence that has been perpetrated by either side). I don't see any solution while religion plays such a defining role in life in this part of the world.
Reply With Quote
  #511  
Old 17.08.2016, 12:44
MrVertigo's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 3,210
Groaned at 86 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 5,788 Times in 2,254 Posts
MrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond reputeMrVertigo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Thank you for the compliment.

Education is a chicvken and egg question: Why are Christian arabs more educated ? nobody is stopping anyone from getting an education based on his/her religion.

Ultra orthodox Jews have their faults, yet they are a lot less violent then most communities, and the numbers prove it.
- Already under British occupation there was a differentiated treatment between Palestinian Christians and Muslims regarding access to infrastructure, education, travel, etc....
- Starting from 1948, Israeli occupier continued that policy to the point that in several villages only muslims were expelled and christians were allowed to stay. The life of a refugee from camp to camp with no stability make it more difficult to build an optimistic future.

I try to convince myself about the numbers you don't mention regarding crimes committed by Ultra-orthodox. Please do consider that settler's violence against Palestinians (muslim or christians) are also crimes.
__________________
Resist, support, donate: ACLU
They tried to bury us, they did not know that we are seeds (Mexican proverb)
Reply With Quote
  #512  
Old 17.08.2016, 12:51
Kosti's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oranje County
Posts: 488
Groaned at 27 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 871 Times in 364 Posts
Kosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond reputeKosti has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Ultra orthodox Jews have their faults, yet they are a lot less violent then most communities, and the numbers prove it.
The ultra orthodox are the greatest internal security threat to Israel.

Perhaps the worst crime in recent Israeli history was carried out by an Israeli religious extremist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assass..._Yitzhak_Rabin

I dont think any act by Hamas has caused this much damage to Israel.

Still, show us the numbers.
Reply With Quote
  #513  
Old 17.08.2016, 12:58
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 982
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,158 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Are you actually being serious? Where did I give ANY indication that I thought ISIS represented all of the Muslim world? Seriously, the reason I didn't even click on to that implication in J2488's posts (if it was even there) is because it never entered my mind in the discussion. I have never said or implied such a thing, and to do so would be patently ridiculous.

Seriously guys, I am genuinely concerned for some of your reading comprehension skills. Either that, or some people are so rabid in their arguments that they are ignoring very basic common sense and seeing what they want to see.

It is genuinely baffling.

Are you for real?


Quote:
View Post
Again, I don't give two hoots that every recruit doesn't know their religion perfectly, I just care what atrocities they do in the end in the name of ISIS and their perception of Islam.
Reply With Quote
  #514  
Old 17.08.2016, 12:58
manwithnoname's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 466
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,209 Times in 484 Posts
manwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Sure, lets imagine that. But are the Muslims allowed to take with them all their contributions?
Including, but not limited to:
-the concept of further education, and 'Universities'
-the concept of hospitals, and the practice of modern surgery, the modern understanding of the circulatory system, and the practice of vaccination
-The idea of soap to clean oneself
-the science of astronomy and the understanding of celestial bodies
-the chemistry practices of distillation, crystallisation, and filtration
-the concept of heavier-than-air flight
-Coffee
-Toothhbrushes
-Algebra (named after the guy, for crying out loud)
-the scientific field of Optics (and by extension, glasses)
-Music
-The motorised Crank
-Mosaic art

The side without Muslims is beginning to sound like quite a smelly unpleasant place to be. At the very least, they will have terrible halitosis.

But sure, you go live on that side.
haha they were so religous they came up with all that? or were there scientific people in the middle east, back in the day? not so much anymore, how come?

and as if only the islam believers invented e.g. music lol.

maybe you are confusing muslims - arabs.

pretty sure that if we split the land and everybody gets to keep all the knowledge currently available itll be a a better deal for the islam side.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank manwithnoname for this useful post:
  #515  
Old 17.08.2016, 13:09
Sbrinz's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,885
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
Sbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond reputeSbrinz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
How many people have been killed by burkas?
Many, many, women have been killed when wearing a burka. They cross a street and because of the burka they cannot see the traffic approaching them.
Reply With Quote
  #516  
Old 17.08.2016, 13:16
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 982
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,158 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
haha they were so religous they came up with all that? or were there scientific people in the middle east, back in the day? not so much anymore, how come?

and as if only the islam believers invented e.g. music lol.

maybe you are confusing muslims - arabs.

pretty sure that if we split the land and everybody gets to keep all the knowledge currently available itll be a a better deal for the islam side.


Whether you like it or not, noname, they were Muslims, and to quote you,


'side A is a land with no islam whatsoever'

'No Islam whatsoever' means no Muslim influence whatsoever - which means none of their achievement either. You cant pick and choose.


The fact is, Muslims, or as you call them, 'islam believers', have contributed far more to modern society than you actually realise, and are comfortable with, I venture.


Tell you what, why don't you try to live without those things for a week - and come back and tell us how it was. Better still, why not carve out a place in a secluded area, and live like that for the rest of your days? Im sure the 'islam believers' wont mind if you take a toothbrush with you though.
Reply With Quote
  #517  
Old 17.08.2016, 13:17
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 982
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,158 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Many, many, women have been killed when wearing a burka. They cross a street and because of the burka they cannot see the traffic approaching them.




Do you even know what a burka is?
Reply With Quote
  #518  
Old 17.08.2016, 13:18
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 982
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,158 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Having lived with lovely hijab-wearing women in the last few weeks has really opened my eyes to its attractiveness and understanding of it. As long as one wears a niqab as a personal choice, it's a lovely way to proclaim one's faith and belief. As soon as it becomes forced, it loses its attractiveness and personal identity.

I asked these very tolerant and open-minded Egyptian women about their views on niqabs. They replied as long as it was a personal choice, they will respect the women who wear the although they don't always understand why anyone would want to. However, as soon as niqabs are forced upon women, then the problem lies not with the piece of clothing but with relationship between the husband and wife or with the society in which they live.

The difference between hijabs, niqabs, burkas, etc. http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241
#




I venture the vast majority of those in favour of such a ban have indeed never spoken to such a woman.
Reply With Quote
  #519  
Old 17.08.2016, 13:27
manwithnoname's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Basel
Posts: 466
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,209 Times in 484 Posts
manwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond reputemanwithnoname has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Whether you like it or not, noname, they were Muslims, and to quote you,


'side A is a land with no islam whatsoever'

'No Islam whatsoever' means no Muslim influence whatsoever - which means none of their achievement either. You cant pick and choose.


The fact is, Muslims, or as you call them, 'islam believers', have contributed far more to modern society than you actually realise, and are comfortable with, I venture.


Tell you what, why don't you try to live without those things for a week - and come back and tell us how it was. Better still, why not carve out a place in a secluded area, and live like that for the rest of your days? Im sure the 'islam believers' wont mind if you take a toothbrush with you though.
its as if i would claim the numerous inventions done in the west were done because of christianity, even in the many cases the scientist was actually a christian. it was done despite religion. im convinced that we would be much farther ahead in science if it wasnt for religion.

you cant say that some dude invented x back in the day it when it was "believe or die" and then claim that he invented x because of that religion. the religion itself does not contribute if not downright inhibits.

i say "islam believers" to stress its about religous people. since you seem to think muslims == arabs

many people want to live according to islam standards and want to force them on people that do not fancy that. you want to live like that, fine by me. but lets part ways so we do not bother each other. like i said, win-win.

im not sure why you start a pissing contest with "islamic" inventions like the toothbrush. im not even gonna play because its too obvious what the outcome will be.
Reply With Quote
  #520  
Old 17.08.2016, 13:34
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 982
Groaned at 249 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 2,158 Times in 997 Posts
J2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond reputeJ2488 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
its as if i would claim the numerous inventions done in the west were done because of christianity, even in the many cases the scientist was actually a christian. it was done despite religion. im convinced that we would be much farther ahead in science if it wasnt for religion.

you cant say that some dude invented x back in the day it when it was "believe or die" and then claim that he invented x because of that religion. the religion itself does not contribute if not downright inhibits.

i say "islam believers" to stress its about religous people. since you seem to think muslims == arabs

many people want to live according to islam standards and want to force them on people that do not fancy that. you want to live like that, fine by me. but lets part ways so we do not bother each other. like i said, win-win.

im not sure why you start a pissing contest with "islamic" inventions like the toothbrush. im not even gonna play because its too obvious what the outcome will be.

Perhaps not, but then, how many scientists were motivated, at least in part, due to religion? Islam promotes education and especially in the early days, many universities were funded by religious groups - so you cant divorce the two completely.


By the way, a lot of those inventions and concepts came from the ottoman empire - not Arab at all. I don't know why you keep banging on about Arabs.



And, not for the first time, im accused of being a muslim :-)
Its interesting, just because I defend them on EF, people automatically assume I am one. Never ceases to surprise me.


Im not by the way. nor do I have any intention to live in a country governed by sharia. Nor in fact, do most Muslims around the world. They and I are quite happy as we are.


That obvious outcome being the fact that forcibly relocating 1.6 billion people in the middle of the desert is actually not that good an idea?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will borders with CH be affected after terrorist attacks? McTAVGE Daily life 19 15.11.2015 18:14
The All Muslims are evil thread bigblue2 General off-topic 4 27.08.2010 15:46
Confused about coverage in rest of Europe on Swiss Health Insurance Wingnut Insurance 8 15.12.2008 09:20


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0