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  #521  
Old 17.08.2016, 13:49
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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its as if i would claim the numerous inventions done in the west were done because of christianity, even in the many cases the scientist was actually a christian. it was done despite religion. im convinced that we would be much farther ahead in science if it wasnt for religion.

you cant say that some dude invented x back in the day it when it was "believe or die" and then claim that he invented x because of that religion. the religion itself does not contribute if not downright inhibits.
Furthermore, by saying you have no access to anything Muslims invented, this basically means turning back the clock. So maybe a Muslim guy invented Algebra. But many Algebraic concepts and onward developments were done by Western guys. 13th Century algebra is very different from modern algebra. Even a modern day Muslim mathematician would be pretty much stumped if told he was to use that and nothing else. Similarly in medicine, chemistry, geometry and many other disciplines you cannot separate out the fundamental principle from its development or the theory from its application. The idea is just utterly unworkable and would cast both sides back 700 years.

Even the religion itself would be in trouble. The Koran borrows a lot of stuff from Chriatisnity and Judaism. If you were to delete all that from Islam, the stuff that would be left wouldn't even make much sense on its own.
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  #522  
Old 17.08.2016, 13:54
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Having lived with lovely hijab-wearing women in the last few weeks has really opened my eyes to its attractiveness and understanding of it. As long as one wears a niqab as a personal choice, it's a lovely way to proclaim one's faith and belief. As soon as it becomes forced, it loses its attractiveness and personal identity.
Two questions:
1: Why is it needed to profess religious beliefs at all externally? It should be something personal, between you are your God. Europe in general is a secular society, you don't really see many people on a daily basis wearing religious paraphernalia. I'd like to keep it that way.

2: How can it be known who is wearing a burka because they want to and who is being forced to wear one? Since there really isn't any way to know who is being subjugated and who isn't, wouldn't it be better to just ban burkas in EU entirely as an enforcement of gender equality?
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  #523  
Old 17.08.2016, 13:54
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Perhaps not, but then, how many scientists were motivated, at least in part, due to religion? Islam promotes education and especially in the early days, many universities were funded by religious groups - so you cant divorce the two completely.


By the way, a lot of those inventions and concepts came from the ottoman empire - not Arab at all. I don't know why you keep banging on about Arabs.



And, not for the first time, im accused of being a muslim :-)
Its interesting, just because I defend them on EF, people automatically assume I am one. Never ceases to surprise me.


Im not by the way. nor do I have any intention to live in a country governed by sharia. Nor in fact, do most Muslims around the world. They and I are quite happy as we are.


That obvious outcome being the fact that forcibly relocating 1.6 billion people in the middle of the desert is actually not that good an idea?
so how much sharia is tolerable for you within a country? would you rather those people go to a country governed by sharia? even if it means you have to give up your toothbrush?
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  #524  
Old 17.08.2016, 14:10
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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The ultra orthodox are the greatest internal security threat to Israel.

Perhaps the worst crime in recent Israeli history was carried out by an Israeli religious extremist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assass..._Yitzhak_Rabin

I dont think any act by Hamas has caused this much damage to Israel.

Still, show us the numbers.
You can find the numbers here - general crime in Ultra Orthodox cities is about half of th national average, Murder is very rare.
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  #525  
Old 17.08.2016, 14:13
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Furthermore, by saying you have no access to anything Muslims invented, this basically means turning back the clock. So maybe a Muslim guy invented Algebra. But many Algebraic concepts and onward developments were done by Western guys. 13th Century algebra is very different from modern algebra. Even a modern day Muslim mathematician would be pretty much stumped if told he was to use that and nothing else. Similarly in medicine, chemistry, geometry and many other disciplines you cannot separate out the fundamental principle from its development or the theory from its application. The idea is just utterly unworkable and would cast both sides back 700 years.

Even the religion itself would be in trouble. The Koran borrows a lot of stuff from Chriatisnity and Judaism. If you were to delete all that from Islam, the stuff that would be left wouldn't even make much sense on its own.
yes it makes no sense at all to think in this way and its diverting from the point i tried to make.

status quo. choose which side of the line you want to live in and go from there. a simple thought experiment that should lead to the conclusion that most people will be better of without islam. if islam is the main factor in your life you get to choose to live with people that think in the same way and not be bothered by filthy whores and pigs. again, its win-win.

in other words, what is the benefit of mixing those 2 populations as we have today and even actively promote it?

i wonder how many are left of those 1.6 billion when they dont have to fear for apostasy consequences. freedom at last. or not, and i wish you prosperity and all on the other side.
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  #526  
Old 17.08.2016, 14:20
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Two questions:
1: Why is it needed to profess religious beliefs at all externally? It should be something personal, between you are your God.
Yeah, especially when in the same breath they say its about "modesty".

In my book, there is nothing modest about rubbing in that you are a good Mulsim and the others are bad Muslims.

Last edited by amogles; 17.08.2016 at 14:36.
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Old 17.08.2016, 14:41
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Two questions:
1: Why is it needed to profess religious beliefs at all externally? It should be something personal, between you are your God. Europe in general is a secular society, you don't really see many people on a daily basis wearing religious paraphernalia. I'd like to keep it that way.

Sometimes I feel the same way when I see certain tattoos. All those skulls and evil-looking monsters inked on people's arms take me back at times and yet it's part of our society's structure to allow people to display their personal choices as long as it's not offensive or demeaning to anyone.

2: How can it be known who is wearing a burka because they want to and who is being forced to wear one? Since there really isn't any way to know who is being subjugated and who isn't, wouldn't it be better to just ban burkas in EU entirely as an enforcement of gender equality?

My original statements did not include burkas but since you asked, it is my opinion that if a woman chooses to cover her face entirely, I question the society she lives in and the reasons why she needs "protection" by wearing such a defamation of personal identity.
xxx

Last edited by olygirl; 17.08.2016 at 16:00.
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  #528  
Old 22.08.2016, 19:47
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Even in reasonably functioning Muslim countries, it's still the religion that retards them.

Malaysian singer Namewee held for 'insulting Islam'
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  #529  
Old 22.08.2016, 20:15
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Surprised this was missed on here - only picked up on it as there was yet another stabbing in Brussels today by a woman (details as yet unreleased):

Belgium machete attacker was earmarked for deportation

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The man who injured two policewomen with a machete in a suspected terror attack in the Belgian city of Charleroi on Saturday had been earmarked for deportation.
Belgian authorities have confirmed the 33-year-old Algerian assailant had lived in Belgium since 2012 and had ignored two expulsion orders. The perpetrator, who was shot dead by police during the attack, was known to police before the attack for petty crime.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/49dcc94e-5...#axzz4I58yzWi5

At the same time news comes that our wonderful welfare state for which taxpayers shell out was supporting the PAris killers :

https://www.rt.com/news/354734-welfa...lgium-attacks/

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Belgian financial investigators looking into the terrorist attacks found that Salah Abdeslam, charged with taking part in the Paris assaults, had collected €19,000 ($21,000) in welfare payments, which were stopped just a few weeks before the attacks were carried out in the French capital in November, WSJ reports.
Makes you feel just great about paying taxes.
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  #530  
Old 23.08.2016, 10:37
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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so how much sharia is tolerable for you within a country? would you rather those people go to a country governed by sharia? even if it means you have to give up your toothbrush?


Like most Muslims, I don't want to live in a sharia governed system. Sharia is a system of jurisprudence, not a set of laws - it was never supposed to be applied literally.


But then, im not the one suggesting it, am I?
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Old 23.08.2016, 10:39
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Surprised this was missed on here - only picked up on it as there was yet another stabbing in Brussels today by a woman (details as yet unreleased):

Belgium machete attacker was earmarked for deportation




http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/49dcc94e-5...#axzz4I58yzWi5

At the same time news comes that our wonderful welfare state for which taxpayers shell out was supporting the PAris killers :

https://www.rt.com/news/354734-welfa...lgium-attacks/



Makes you feel just great about paying taxes.

Im pretty sure a negligible amount of your taxes went to the guy. Your taxes pay for the infrastructure of your country. If you want to feel good about it, go walk around a hospital.
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  #532  
Old 23.08.2016, 10:58
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Im pretty sure a negligible amount of your taxes went to the guy. Your taxes pay for the infrastructure of your country. If you want to feel good about it, go walk around a hospital.
Save your breath, it is like talking to a brick wall. That's the way the media works here, lay the blame on something, someone or a group of people, spread as much fear, to distract the "ignorant masses" from the real problems in society, like the fact that the mega-corporations are getting off tax free and the rich are rinsing society and the environment from the top down and the bottom up.
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  #533  
Old 23.08.2016, 10:59
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Like most Muslims.
Ahh, finally, some insight into your posting style in these threads.
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Old 23.08.2016, 11:15
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Save your breath, it is like talking to a brick wall. That's the way the media works here, lay the blame on something, someone or a group of people, spread as much fear, to distract the "ignorant masses" from the real problems in society, like the fact that the mega-corporations are getting off tax free and the rich are rinsing society and the environment from the top down and the bottom up.
I think I get it. If you claim to be the biggest victim, then its everybody else's fault, and you win.
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  #535  
Old 23.08.2016, 11:24
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Ahh, finally, some insight into your posting style in these threads.
Posting style? You mean not anti-someones personal belief. What would my posting style make me? no scrap that question I think I can guess your answer!

Seriously though, in a thread that was created to question Islam and Muslims its good to have Muslims contribute otherwise its just a bunch of privileged white western armchair bigots complaining about immigration and non integration, without any particular expertise on the matter and the internet or the Daily Mail as reference material.
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  #536  
Old 23.08.2016, 11:32
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I think I get it. If you claim to be the biggest victim, then its everybody else's fault, and you win.
Phos I have no idea what you mean by that? Care to elaborate? No on second thoughts I really don't care what you have to say.
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Old 23.08.2016, 11:36
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Phos I have no idea what you mean by that? Care to elaborate? No on second thoughts I really don't care what you have to say.


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Save your breath, it is like talking to a brick wall.
of course
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  #538  
Old 23.08.2016, 11:42
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Phos I have no idea what you mean by that? Care to elaborate? No on second thoughts I really don't care what you have to say.
Strawman much? Since i am not white. Nor do i read the daily mail i think your bias is showing and it's appalling.

Any belief is fair game to criticism. Particularly those that coadjuvate violent behaviour

Last edited by Pewpewpew; 23.08.2016 at 12:26.
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  #539  
Old 23.08.2016, 12:15
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Strawman much?
It was a generalization, you should learn to read...

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Particularly does that coadjuvate violent behaviour
...and write in English, if you are going to contribute to any meaningful discussion.
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  #540  
Old 23.08.2016, 12:24
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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It was a generalization, you should learn to read...



...and write in English, if you are going to contribute to any meaningful discussion.
Given the level of your arguments, you should probably learn to think before you make such idiotic statements. and i can see the idea came through to at least 2 readers.
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