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Old 14.09.2016, 14:53
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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For instance, in Sharia, a non-Muslim cannot be in charge of a Muslim so a non-Muslim can never be a manager in the larger economy, a non-Mulsim must pay the jizya, sometimes, you have physical punishment of non-Muslims who are people of the book (pagans are simply killed), such as the requirement that non-Muslims wear heavy wooden yokes around the neck.
Meanwhile in the modern world
I am enjoying these history lessons, but times have actually moved on from burning witches and heretics or charging non Muslims a supplemental tax.
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  #602  
Old 14.09.2016, 14:53
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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The issue is that by nature every religion's aim is to convert and assimilate as many people as possible. If everyone would just practice their religion privately and leave everyone else the hell alone then there wouldn't be a problem.

The zeitgeist changes, and it's time for religion to get cast into the annals of history.
When an ancient religion is abolished it is simply replaced with the bullcrap du jour, e.g. Communism, fascism, etc.

I believe there are many religions where the adherents do not attempt to convert non-believers: Judaism, Druze, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, etc.
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Old 14.09.2016, 14:57
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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When an ancient religion is abolished it is simply replaced with the bullcrap du jour, e.g. Communism, fascism, etc.

I believe there are many religions where the adherents do not attempt to convert non-believers: Judaism, Druze, Yazidis, Zoroastrians, etc.
There is nothing wrong with trying to help lead people to what one thinks is a better way of living. Everybody does that, even doing it on this thread. The real crime is punishing those one can't convince, while trying to apply the same precepts for the whole world.
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Old 14.09.2016, 15:04
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Meanwhile in the modern world
I am enjoying these history lessons, but times have actually moved on from burning witches and heretics or charging non Muslims a supplemental tax.
And the rest of the list, which is only a sample?

The Ottomans abolished jizya in 1856 under pressure from the west but kept it going under a different name until the Caliphate's collapse. North Africa abolished it only after the French took over in the 19th and early 20th Centuries. Islamic State, the Taliban and Boko Haram require jizya today (if you haven't been murdered or enslaved first).

And as far as times having moved on, I know you have been following the news. Enlightenment principles are not winning out, particularly in the Islamic world.
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Old 14.09.2016, 15:09
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Meanwhile in the modern world
I am enjoying these history lessons, but times have actually moved on from burning witches and heretics or charging non Muslims a supplemental tax.
Errr, Ahmadi shopkeeper in the UK, bloggers in Bangladesh and Pakistan, women in short shorts in France. And then there are statements from the UK that the social welfare Muslims and asylum seekers receive are rightfully jizya. Modern applications of the same ideas, no?.
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Old 14.09.2016, 15:11
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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And as far as times having moved on, I know you have been following the news. Enlightenment principles are not winning out, particularly in the Islamic world.
On that note, whoever is brave enough, go to Saudi Arabia and play dumb and ask someone educated and intelligent where is the closest Christian temple as you would like to go and pray.
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Old 14.09.2016, 15:18
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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On that note, whoever is brave enough, go to Saudi Arabia and play dumb and ask someone educated and intelligent where is the closest Christian temple as you would like to go and pray.
Here we go again, there are 50 Muslim majority countries in the world and the one example continually parrotted is Saudi Arabia.

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We spoke to experts on religion and government in Muslim countries. The consensus: There are churches and/or synagogues in almost every Muslim country.

Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic relations, said Graham was incorrect. “There are lots of Christian churches and synagogues in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Jordan, Indonesia, Qatar, Kuwait. … If you go to any number of so-called Muslim countries you will see thriving Christian and Jewish populations.” One member of the Iranian Parliament is Jewish, Hooper noted. “The only one where you don’t see it, where you can’t have a Christian church or synagogue is Saudi Arabia,” Hooper said.

The cities of Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia are the two holiest cities in Islam, said Akbar S. Ahmed, chair of Islamic Studies at American University. So no churches or synagogues are allowed there. He compared them to the Vatican.
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Old 14.09.2016, 15:23
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Here we go again, there are 50 Muslim majority countries in the world and the one example continually parrotted is Saudi Arabia.
Did you know that CAIR is a Muslim Brotherhood front? Hardly a good source unless you want to see the spewing of Muslim Brotherhood propaganda in real time.
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Old 14.09.2016, 15:28
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Regarding the UK group Prevent (radicalization) mentioned a page back, one would assume that their cases are more or less evenly spread out across all religions considering they are all equally suspectible to violence, extremism and fanaticism.

Yet their cases seem to be almost exclusively muslims who are suspectible to terrorism. Doesn't really add up.
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Old 14.09.2016, 15:28
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Did you know that CAIR is a Muslim Brotherhood front?
Really?

Do you have credible sources for this?
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Old 14.09.2016, 15:28
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Here we go again, there are 50 Muslim majority countries in the world and the one example continually parrotted is Saudi Arabia.
Oh, sorry, you're right. On a recent trip to one of the "thriving" countries on your list i saw a women being booed because she was not veiled and entered the car on the driver seat.
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Old 14.09.2016, 20:02
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Here we go again, there are 50 Muslim majority countries in the world and the one example continually parrotted is Saudi Arabia.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...violent-attack

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A Muslim mob stripped a 70-year-old Christian woman and paraded her naked on the streets in an attack last week in which seven Christian homes were ransacked and torched in a province south of the Egyptian capital.
According to the local Orthodox Coptic church and security officials, the assault in the Minya province village of Karama on Friday began after rumours spread that the woman’s son had had an affair with a Muslim woman – a taboo in conservative Egypt.
Police have arrested six men suspected of taking part in the violence and are looking for 12 more, the security officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorised to speak to the media.
Anba Makarios, Minya’s top Christian cleric, told a talkshow host on the private Dream TV network that the woman was dragged out of her home by the mob, who beat and insulted her before stripping off her clothes and forcing her to walk through the streets as they chanted Allahu Akbar, or “God is greatest”.
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Old 14.09.2016, 21:52
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Really?

Do you have credible sources for this?
Yes: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...cott-w-johnson

http://www.investigativeproject.org/...-status-legit#
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Old 15.09.2016, 05:56
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

the president of the USA doesnt agree with you

https://www.cair.com/press-center/pr...an-mosque.html
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Old 15.09.2016, 08:06
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Both these links state the Govt. did not proceed against CAIR due to lack of evidence; so these links do not prove anything
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Old 15.09.2016, 12:20
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Both these links state the Govt. did not proceed against CAIR due to lack of evidence; so these links do not prove anything
Proceed with what? There seems to be plenty of evidence of CAIR's linkage with the Muslim Brotherhood, it was started by its supporters. But I don't see what laws they've broken. What are we denying today?
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Old 15.09.2016, 13:19
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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the president of the USA doesnt agree with you

https://www.cair.com/press-center/pr...an-mosque.html
The Obama administration has a policy of engagement with Islamist groups regardless of their affiliations, particularly with the Muslim Brotherhood. You'll recall the Obama admin's support for Morsi in Egypt, for example. The Obama admin has met with the Muslim Brotherhood even post-Morsi, risking a rift with our major ally, Egypt. In addition, the Director of National Intelligence, Gen. Clapper testified before Congress that the Muslim Brotherhood was "largely secular", an absurd statement subsequently walked back by the DNI after a hailstorm of criticism, but one that supports the foreign policy view in the Obama administration that the Muslim Brotherhood is the future in the Islamic world and it's best to get on board with them now because they can help against the likes of al-Qaeda et al.

Leftist naivete at work at the highest levels of the US government, sadly.

Last edited by NomadAmericano; 15.09.2016 at 13:53.
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Old 15.09.2016, 15:03
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Proceed with what? There seems to be plenty of evidence of CAIR's linkage with the Muslim Brotherhood, it was started by its supporters. But I don't see what laws they've broken. What are we denying today?
" it was started by its supporters." Well it would not be started by its enemies would it?

"Proceed with what? " Well if you had read the links that I was quoting you would have understood "what".
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Old 15.09.2016, 15:14
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Those links are about the Holy Land Foundation, which was proven in court to be sending money to Hamas.
Holy Land made a donation to CAIR, among hundreds of other groups it donated to.

I dont see how that rises to the level of proof that CAIR is a "front" for the Muslim Brotherhood.
The phrase "to front" indicates leadership or prominent representation.
Those links have no such information.

If getting money from a certain group is considered "to front" that group, then by that rather absurd standard of evidence, Donald Trump would be fronting the KKK and the American Nazi party.
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Old 15.09.2016, 16:18
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I dont see how that rises to the level of proof that CAIR is a "front" for the Muslim Brotherhood.
The phrase "to front" indicates leadership or prominent representation.
Those links have no such information.
Not necessarily. It could also mean they propagate the Muslim Brotherhood agenda. Or it was founded through the Muslim Brotherhood, and is now carrying forth. All of these have been alleged with some evidence. A pattern of behaviour is enough to establish these as well.
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