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-   -   All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe) (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/244043-all-about-muslims-wake-terrorist-attacks-europe.html)

Capo 28.02.2017 16:21

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 2736373)
You can have christianity, or you can have equal rights for women. You can't have both.

Ephesians 5:
"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

What percentage of Christians follow this literally? :rolleyes:

Capo 28.02.2017 16:29

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Russkov (Post 2736388)
Christian culture, clearly superior:

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ralia-revealed

"Seven per cent of Australia’s Catholic priests were accused of abusing children in the six decades since 1950, according to new data from the royal commission."

To be fair, 7 is a lucky number.

7% of 3000 Australian priests = 210 persons.

Total number of Catholics in Australia = 5.5 million

210/5.5M = 0.003% of Australian Catholics are pedophiles

Guess what is the percentage of muslims who want sharia law, wife beating, agree with terrorist attacks, etc.? :rolleyes:


kriss kross 28.02.2017 17:05

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2748114)
So the right to privacy for everyone else in the congregation should be ignored?

What about the people who attended the sermon without knowing in advance what was going to be said at the sermon? They're filmed too. Once that film is in the public domain, they become targets as well.

You do know that the vast majority of the congregants will not know in advance what the sermon will cover, right? and that just because it is said in a sermon, doesnt mean most wont just ignore it (in much the same way as most Christians dont act on the sermons they receive on Sundays)

Is this not why Switzerland has privacy laws? Could the whistle not have been blown (something which all reasonable people would agree is good) without breaking another law in the process?
Why did he go to the press and not the police in the first place?
Surely if the imam was inciting murder, the police are the people to deal with it, not the press?
Did they not realize that it is more difficult to prosecute, if the evidence is obtained illegally, as this was?

In any case, it will now go through the courts who will make the decision. I think most people are happy with that.

Its a cheap shot, to claim that the police should not take seriously something which was against the law, based only on your anti-muslim fanaticism.

Perhaps you’re right and the reason they’re prosecuting the two whistle-blowers is simply because other innocent people may have been filmed (although I’m doubtful as i'm not aware that any footage has been publicly released)

And I agree that the people inside the mosque probably didn’t know what the particular sermon was going to be about (however, it should be noted this particular mosque has had other problems in the past including having an ISIS cell operating from it as well as the previous Imam being forced to step down after accusations of also having extremist views)

I just thought that considering most Muslims are against extremism they would be pleased to see it being exposed and removed from their mosque. And given the controversial history of the mosque you'd think the mosque leaders would be relieved to see extremist elements removed.
Instead, the whistle-blowers were first bashed by members of the mosque and are now threatened with prosecution. Strange.

kriss kross 28.02.2017 17:07

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2748118)
Regarding the Berlin Mosque, from your own source:

Looks like the mosque was closing anyway and wasn't 'banned' as you claim.

Tell the truth, now. Dont want any of those 'alternative facts' flying around here.


''Berlin authorities have banned the Fussilet mosque, which Anis Amri used to attend.
A ban on the mosque has been discussed since 2015. After the December attack, officials moved quickly to implement the ban''

Hmmm :rolleyes:

Guest 28.02.2017 17:28

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Capo (Post 2748218)
What percentage of Christians follow this literally? :rolleyes:

Quote:

"In response to this four-part question, 22% of Americans say the Bible is the actual word of God, to be taken literally -- a bit lower than when using the three-part question. Twenty-eight percent believe it is the actual word of God, but with multiple interpretations possible.Jun 4, 2014
Gallup poll.

Scary amounts of people...:eek:

amogles 28.02.2017 17:49

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2748258)
Perhaps you’re right and the reason they’re prosecuting the two whistle-blowers is simply because other innocent people may have been filmed (although I’m doubtful as i'm not aware that any footage has been publicly released)

And I agree that the people inside the mosque probably didn’t know what the particular sermon was going to be about (however, it should be noted this particular mosque has had other problems in the past including having an ISIS cell operating from it as well as the previous Imam being forced to step down after accusations of also having extremist views)

I just thought that considering most Muslims are against extremism they would be pleased to see it being exposed and removed from their mosque. And given the controversial history of the mosque you'd think the mosque leaders would be relieved to see extremist elements removed.
Instead, the whistle-blowers were first bashed by members of the mosque and are now threatened with prosecution. Strange.

If you go onto Youtube you can find countless pulpit sermons by Christian preachers. You can find a good many muslim ones too. Doesn't a preacher want to reach as many people as possible? Shouldn't a preacher welcome a broadcasting of his sermons?

Or if there is really something the preacher wants to discuss in private (for whatever reason), then he shouldn't be talking in the mosque either, unless there is strict access control.

esto 28.02.2017 19:34

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 2736373)
You can have christianity, or you can have equal rights for women. You can't have both.

Ephesians 5:
"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

Sure you can, Christianity has been reformed, not many Christians are taking the Bible verbatim anymore, premarital sex is pretty much the norm, the Pope is getting more relaxed about things like homosexuality, etc.

Islam on the other hand, is in desperate need of reform :(

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/m...33.23%20PM.png
https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...charts/275450/

Guest 28.02.2017 19:48

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by esto (Post 2748336)
Sure you can, Christianity has been reformed, not many Christians are taking the Bible verbatim anymore, premarital sex is pretty much the norm, the Pope is getting more relaxed about things like homosexuality, etc.

That's probably true in Europe, for example, but according to the link I posted above, 22% of Americans might disagree with you. The Earth is apparently only 6000 years old and humans and dragons lived at the same time, as well as woman was made from the rib of Adam.

Samaire13 28.02.2017 21:03

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Capo (Post 2748224)
Guess what is the percentage of muslims who want sharia law, wife beating, agree with terrorist attacks, etc.? :rolleyes:



Well, while I agree the number of radical Muslims is not as tiny as some overly politically correct people make it out to be, I'm not sure Ben Shapiro should be your go-to source either...

kriss kross 28.02.2017 21:27

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by esto (Post 2748336)
Sure you can, Christianity has been reformed, not many Christians are taking the Bible verbatim anymore, premarital sex is pretty much the norm, the Pope is getting more relaxed about things like homosexuality, etc.

Islam on the other hand, is in desperate need of reform :(

Amen :msncool:

marton 28.02.2017 21:31

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by esto (Post 2748336)
Sure you can, Christianity has been reformed, not many Christians are taking the Bible verbatim anymore, premarital sex is pretty much the norm, the Pope is getting more relaxed about things like homosexuality, etc.

Islam on the other hand, is in desperate need of reform :(

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/m...33.23%20PM.png
https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...charts/275450/

Whereas in the Christian religion "“I…take you to be my husband, to have and to hold from this day forward; for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and obey, till death us do part, according to God’s holy law.”"

Samaire13 28.02.2017 21:46

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2748399)
Whereas in the Christian religion "“I…take you to be my husband, to have and to hold from this day forward; for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and obey, till death us do part, according to God’s holy law.”"

I've literally never heard "obey" being used in Christian wedding vows, at least not in the 21st century. I'm not disputing it's there and may still be used, but I've just never heard it.

That being said though, my simple view: every radical version of every religion is dangerous and despicable. Actually if I had a say, I'd happily eliminate every single religion in this world cause aside from power and greed, it is the main cause for every problem, conflict, war and everything in between there ever was. But I'm an atheist, always have been and always will be. I will never see what good religion does.

And I specifically mean religion. Not faith. Or belief. Nothing wrong with believing in God. Or Allah. Or fairies. Or dwarfs. The problem doesn't occur at that stage.

kriss kross 28.02.2017 21:50

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2748399)
Whereas in the Christian religion "“I…take you to be my husband, to have and to hold from this day forward; for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and obey, till death us do part, according to God’s holy law.”"

Where in the Muslim religion a man can beat his wife - but it's ok as it's only as a last resort :rofl:

Medea Fleecestealer 28.02.2017 21:54

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2748399)
Whereas in the Christian religion "“I…take you to be my husband, to have and to hold from this day forward; for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, cherish, and obey, till death us do part, according to God’s holy law.”"

Sorry, but it's optional these days for an Anglican wedding.

"In the Alternative Service Book (1980) two versions of the vows are included: the bride and groom must select one of the versions only. Version A:

I, ____, take you, ____, to be my wife (or husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy law, and this is my solemn vow.

Version B is identical except for the clause "to love and to cherish" where the groom says "to love, cherish, and worship" and the bride says "to love, cherish, and obey".[9]

Since 2000 the service in Common Worship the normal vows are as follows:

I,___, take you, ___, to be my wife (or husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy law, in the presence of God I make this vow.

However, the bride and groom may choose to replace the clause "to love and to cherish" with "to love, cherish, and obey" when the bride makes her vows.[10]

On September 12, 1922, the Episcopal Church voted to remove the word "obey" from the bride's section of wedding vows. Other churches of the Anglican Communion each have their own authorized prayer books which in general follow the vows described above though the details and languages used do vary."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_vows

As an agnostic I agree with Samaire13. The sooner all religion dies out the better.

marton 28.02.2017 22:33

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 2748417)
Sorry, but it's optional these days for an Anglican wedding.

"In the Alternative Service Book (1980) two versions of the vows are included: the bride and groom must select one of the versions only. Version A:

I, ____, take you, ____, to be my wife (or husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy law, and this is my solemn vow.

Version B is identical except for the clause "to love and to cherish" where the groom says "to love, cherish, and worship" and the bride says "to love, cherish, and obey".[9]

Since 2000 the service in Common Worship the normal vows are as follows:

I,___, take you, ___, to be my wife (or husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy law, in the presence of God I make this vow.

However, the bride and groom may choose to replace the clause "to love and to cherish" with "to love, cherish, and obey" when the bride makes her vows.[10]

On September 12, 1922, the Episcopal Church voted to remove the word "obey" from the bride's section of wedding vows. Other churches of the Anglican Communion each have their own authorized prayer books which in general follow the vows described above though the details and languages used do vary."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_vows

As an agnostic I agree with Samaire13. The sooner all religion dies out the better.

Optional but not abolished :D

Medea Fleecestealer 28.02.2017 22:44

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2748448)
Optional but not abolished :D

No, but Islam doesn't even give the option.

marton 28.02.2017 22:57

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 2748454)
No, but Islam doesn't even give the option.

Well if you were to take the bible seriously :eek:

For example.
Deuteronomy 25:11-12New King James Version (NKJV)

11 “If two men fight together, and the wife of one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of the one attacking him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the genitals,
12 then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall not pity her.

kriss kross 28.02.2017 23:08

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 2748454)
No, but Islam doesn't even give the option.

As a sexist misogynist I gotta be honest, Islam is looking rather appealing

Medea Fleecestealer 01.03.2017 07:18

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2748463)
Well if you were to take the bible seriously :eek:

For example.
Deuteronomy 25:11-12New King James Version (NKJV)

11 “If two men fight together, and the wife of one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of the one attacking him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the genitals,
12 then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall not pity her.

So let me get this straight. Wife saves husband from a beating and possibly death and her reward is to get her hand cut off. :msncrazy: Is it any wonder I think religion is one of the greatest evils the human race has ever had to deal with.

Urs Max 01.03.2017 22:35

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Capo (Post 2748218)
What percentage of Christians follow this literally? :rolleyes:

Considering what I replied to, what do you think was the point of posting that?


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