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-   -   All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe) (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/244043-all-about-muslims-wake-terrorist-attacks-europe.html)

Blueangel 26.08.2017 22:42

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

It's everyone else. It's all my friends and colleagues who were quick to condemn the nazis in Charlottesville, who were happy to share "punch a nazi" memes, who were eager to make statements about not tolerating intolerance, who were keen to point out that these bastards with the swastikas are the thin end of the wedge... but who, after the Barcelona attack, quietly changed their profile pictures to the Catalan flag and offered their "thoughts and prayers" and - well, that's all.
Haven't seen the Catalan flag touted around fb this time, so perhaps that fad's passed. I was never down with it myself and don't have a tw*tter account. As for 'punch a nazi' memes... I used to go watching Spurs in the late '70's and '80's. No need for memes when you have memories. ;) Face it DB, some people started skriking when Diana died and haven't stopped since, and you know the type I mean.

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Where is the outrage from ordinary people? Not from Pegida and the EDL and the rest of the usual suspects - from people who find extreme right wing politics nauseating, people who support gay marriage and women's rights and the separation of church and state - where is their outrage about these fascist bastards who throw gay people off tall buildings and treat their women like chattels and massacre Christians and Yezidis with impunity and fight for the establishment of a theocracy which would make the DUP look like Harvey Milk? Where is the outrage from the left and the middle?
Got a proximity and effectiveness issue here. The outrage is as much use as sending a petition to Theresa May to stop dogs being eaten in Yulin. They aim to instill fear, divide and conquer. I'm not scared. I won't turn on my Muslim friends.

Quote:

I gleefully joined in the nazi-baiting myself. I scoff at the notion of "free speech" for fascists - they've already had their say, as far as I'm concerned - and think it's perfectly fine to kick the crap out of people who wave swastika flags in public places. My opinion hasn't changed in that regard.
Ditto.

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So why the double standards when it comes to Islamist terrorism? Why is it only the nutters and skinheads who seem willing to express their anger at 400+ murders in Europe in the past three years alone, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of people being massacred from Nigeria to the Philippines? Where are the voices of those who were so very, very loud last weekend? Why are all attempts to raise the subject met with accusations of bigotry, xenophobia and scorn?
Because it feeds directly into the nutters' agenda. To them, it justifies everything they've always believed. The rest of us recognise that terrorism is the World's second oldest occupation. It's just the protagonists that change.

The war against Daesh is being fought in situ, and it's going to take time, in the same way that N.I. took time, but they will be defeated.

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I'd be grateful if somebody could explain to me what the difference is, because right now I'm seeing my 20+ years' understanding of the world crashing down around my ears and I could do with some help in making sense of it all.
You're trying to rationalise the irrational, and you can't wreak revenge on a corpse. Frustrating, isn't it?

I've got 20+ years on you I think. When I was a kid, the Sunday ritual was to visit our grandparents and watch 'The World at War' at my grandfather's knee whilst he explained it to us. It massively shaped his life and permanently affected his health. Then there's my mum's adopted brother who lost all of his family except from one sister. It sickens me to the core that there are still people who choose, of their own free will, to identify themselves as nazis. They're lower than a snake's belly.

Having attended a Catholic High School, which had a huge first generation Irish contingent, and having an Irish surname (4th generation), I remember how we were targetted for abuse and violent attacks by other schools everytime there was an IRA attack in England. I'm talking pitch battles involving hundreds of kids and police involvement. In a very small way, we knew what it was to be abused for something that we had no connection with and no control over.

Lex 26.08.2017 22:46

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2837445)
Anders Behring Breivik wrote a manifesto where he claimed to be 100% Christian; so how many Christians felt the need to apologise for his actions?

Was he supported by his local priest at his local church? Did he have 5 others who thought `excellent idea`and went ahead and helped him? Did it lead to coordinated copy cat killings in the weeks after since then and was it across cities in Europe? Was the funding and support for the attack coming from christian backers? Did any christian group claim responsibility?

marton 26.08.2017 22:46

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2837449)
What about all the other Islamist groups like Hizb ut-Tahrir? Don't they also want to bring about complete chaos a global caliphate?

We are not in the 1940's anymore. Have a look around who is doing the killing in Europe and trying to enforce their way of life; it is not National Socialists.

Hizb ut-Tahrir is a non violent group, so what is your point :confused:

kriss kross 26.08.2017 22:53

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2837479)
Hizb ut-Tahrir is a non violent group, so what is your point :confused:

Apparently Islam is also non-violent.

marton 26.08.2017 22:57

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by parnell (Post 2837458)
He said later that he wasn't a Christian but was a follower of Odinism. I'm certain you know of this but you prefer to ignore it.

When he killed 77 people he was a Christian terrorist, from your link "he said he planned to pray to God for help during his attacks."

Please explain the relevance of your point that he later changed his religion?

marton 26.08.2017 23:00

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2837480)
Apparently Islam is also non-violent.

So you failed to explain the point of your reference to Hizb ut-Tahrir?

Hizb ut-Tahrir have never been linked to a violent act.

pilatus1 26.08.2017 23:04

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2837483)
So you failed to explain the point of your reference to Hizb ut-Tahrir?

Hizb ut-Tahrir have never been linked to a violent act.

lol

'Hizb ut-Tahrir has been described as "controversial",[23] and as of mid 2015 it was banned in Germany, Russia, China, Egypt, Turkey,[24] and all but 3 Arab countries.[25][26] On July 19, 2017, the Indonesian government formally revoked Hizbut Tahrir's charter, citing incompatibility with government regulations on extremism. [27] Some observers believe it is a victim of unjust and untrue allegations of connections to terrorism[28] as the organization has never been "overtly involved" in terrorism or even any "violent actions";[29] that its role in radicalization of young Muslims has been "exaggerated",[30] and/or that the re-establishment of its caliphate would provide stability and security.[31][32][33] In March 2017, at a public forum in Sydney Australia, a Hizb ut-Tahrir spokesman was asked about Article 7c of the Hizb ut-Tahrir constitution.[3] In response, he said, "Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that."[34] Critics and others argue that the party is engaged in "politics of hatred"[35] and intolerance which is a "natural precursor" of and provides ideological justification for[36] violence;[35] that actions such as calling suicide bombers "martyrs",[37] accusing western countries of waging war on Islam and Muslims,[38][39] or calling for the destruction of Hindus in Kashmir, Russians in Chechnya and Jews in Israel—are extremist;[40] or that it opposes violence and military expansion not in principle but only until its "Islamic state" has been established.[29]'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizb_ut-Tahrir

marton 26.08.2017 23:22

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pilatus1 (Post 2837485)
lol

'Hizb ut-Tahrir has been described as "controversial",[23] and as of mid 2015 it was banned in Germany, Russia, China, Egypt, Turkey,[24] and all but 3 Arab countries.[25][26] On July 19, 2017, the Indonesian government formally revoked Hizbut Tahrir's charter, citing incompatibility with government regulations on extremism. [27] Some observers believe it is a victim of unjust and untrue allegations of connections to terrorism[28] as the organization has never been "overtly involved" in terrorism or even any "violent actions";[29] that its role in radicalization of young Muslims has been "exaggerated",[30] and/or that the re-establishment of its caliphate would provide stability and security.[31][32][33] In March 2017, at a public forum in Sydney Australia, a Hizb ut-Tahrir spokesman was asked about Article 7c of the Hizb ut-Tahrir constitution.[3] In response, he said, "Islam is clear that apostates do attract capital punishment, we don't shy away from that."[34] Critics and others argue that the party is engaged in "politics of hatred"[35] and intolerance which is a "natural precursor" of and provides ideological justification for[36] violence;[35] that actions such as calling suicide bombers "martyrs",[37] accusing western countries of waging war on Islam and Muslims,[38][39] or calling for the destruction of Hindus in Kashmir, Russians in Chechnya and Jews in Israel—are extremist;[40] or that it opposes violence and military expansion not in principle but only until its "Islamic state" has been established.[29]'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizb_ut-Tahrir

From your link " the organization has never been "overtly involved" in terrorism or even any "violent actions""

pilatus1 26.08.2017 23:24

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2837489)
From your link " the organization has never been "overtly involved" in terrorism or even any "violent actions""

Oh, how nice of them.

marton 26.08.2017 23:30

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2837483)
So you failed to explain the point of your reference to Hizb ut-Tahrir?

Hizb ut-Tahrir have never been linked to a violent act.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2837489)
From your link " the organization has never been "overtly involved" in terrorism or even any "violent actions""

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilatus1 (Post 2837490)
Oh, how nice of them.

How nice of me to have posted correct information :D

pilatus1 26.08.2017 23:33

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2837491)
How nice of me to have posted correct information :D

you've missed the point entirely.

no v8 today?

Castro 26.08.2017 23:34

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by esto (Post 2837432)
ISIS and Islamic Radicals have a very clear aim: they want the world to live according to their interpretation of Islamic Law, and destroy anyone who is against them. That's what they are doing right now in the ME and other parts of the world. You seriously don't see that?
Happy reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_state

It might help if you had read it yourself :rolleyes:

Quote:

This article is about the type of government. For the Islamic jihadist group that calls itself "the Islamic State", see Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. For other uses, see Islamic state (disambiguation).

Castro 26.08.2017 23:49

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2837480)
Apparently Islam is also non-violent.

This is something you will probably never understand, and I pity that.

Xavier Martinez, the father of three-year-old Xavi who died in the Barcelona attack, hugs Imam Driss Salym.



This is not some hug-a-tree lefty, but the grieving father of an innocent child who refuses to give in to hate. There is no greater insult to the barstewards in Raqqa who planned this attrocity than a :fu: from a unified Barcelona.

kriss kross 26.08.2017 23:55

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
It's a gesture that does absolutely nothing to stop all the problems stemming from Islam.

Blueangel 27.08.2017 00:02

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lex (Post 2837478)
Was he supported by his local priest at his local church? Did he have 5 others who thought `excellent idea`and went ahead and helped him? Did it lead to coordinated copy cat killings in the weeks after since then and was it across cities in Europe? Was the funding and support for the attack coming from christian backers? Did any christian group claim responsibility?

No. That was the IRA.

marton 27.08.2017 00:10

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pilatus1 (Post 2837494)
you've missed the point entirely.

no v8 today?

Possibly because both you and KKK were unable to explain the relevance of quoting a non violent group in a terrorism related thread..

For Christian terrorism I quote the Mothers Union :D :rofl:

Sold both the V8s some years ago :thumbup:

marton 27.08.2017 00:12

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lex (Post 2837478)
Was he supported by his local priest at his local church? Did he have 5 others who thought `excellent idea`and went ahead and helped him? Did it lead to coordinated copy cat killings in the weeks after since then and was it across cities in Europe? Was the funding and support for the attack coming from christian backers? Did any christian group claim responsibility?

So you agree he was a Christian terrorist?

kriss kross 27.08.2017 00:24

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2837503)
Possibly because both you and KKK were unable to explain the relevance of quoting a non violent group in a terrorism related thread..

I don't think you have to slander people as Ku Klux Klan members if they point out the obvious problems within Islamic communities.

Still better than a Nazi I guess.

marton 27.08.2017 00:25

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kriss kross (Post 2837506)
I don't think you have to slander people as Ku Klux Klan members if they point out the obvious problems within Islamic communities.

Still better than a Nazi I guess.

Sorry, my Freudian slip :eek:

pilatus1 27.08.2017 00:26

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2837504)
So you agree he was a Christian terrorist?

maybe a glass of water would help.


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