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-   -   All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe) (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/244043-all-about-muslims-wake-terrorist-attacks-europe.html)

pilatus1 22.11.2015 12:05

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Two minutes browsing google on my phone shows that this is a load of bollocks.

Arabic course at a Japanese university: http://www.tufs.ac.jp/english/educat...es/arabic.html

One of several Japanese mosques:
http://www.japanorientaltours.com/mu...que_otsuka.jpg

(Can't be bothered to check the rest)
I'm not supporting the post that you argue aginst, but teaching Arabic is not the same as teaching Islam. This is part of the problem. Everything gets grouped together through stereotype. I'm against Islamic doctrine? I must be racist. Someone speaks Arabic? They must be Islamic.

My neighbor believes in aliens. He's Swiss. We argue about it, because I think that's a bunch of nonsense. But he doesn't call me racist against Swiss people.

i-b-deborah 22.11.2015 12:09

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by halevai (Post 2490344)
Islamic terror in Japan ?
Never heard of it. In fact it seems that flats or houses in Japan are not rented to Muslims. The japanese don't hire Muslims and universities don't teach Arabic. A land with 127 Million People, with hardly any muslim embassy. Citizenship to Muslims does not exist. No mosques. No teaching of Islam.
Temporary residence to Mulims only if they practice their religion at home, and they have speak fluent japanese.
Racism ? The japanese don't care. That's the law in their country.






Quote:

Originally Posted by i-b-deborah (Post 2490436)
Check your facts.

Here, I did it for you.

http://www.snopes.com/muslims-in-japan/

You're welcome.

slammer 22.11.2015 12:10

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
So what do we summarize? Religious books are written by men wanting to show that their god and nobody else´s has the biggest dick.
Or as we say today: "If you talk to god it´s called ´prayer´ if god talks to you you get locked in the loony bin"

pilatus1 22.11.2015 12:16

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Why do we as a society generally feel that it's okay to argue against Nazi ideology or Communist ideology but not against Islamic ideology? Nazi fascism and communism could both be understood as political religions. They are all just belief systems. Even Creationists are considered fair game - when someone posts an image on here with Jesus riding dinosaurs or Jesus telling little timmy that he won't go to heaven because he touches himself, we all have a good laugh. But for some reason Islam is off limits, because that would make us racists?? We might hurt someone's feelings?

I'd say it's racist to bring race into a discussion where it has no relevance.

Chuff 22.11.2015 12:23

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by i-b-deborah (Post 2490443)
Here, I did it for you.

http://www.snopes.com/muslims-in-japan/

You're welcome.

Ahh, there's nothing like a good Snopes link to embarrass someone who clearly doesn't research the facts behind their arguments. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilatus1 (Post 2490441)
My neighbor believes in aliens. He's Swiss. We argue about it, because I think that's a bunch of nonsense. But he doesn't call me racist against Swiss people.

Your neighbour doesn't call you racist because you don't believe in aliens? That has to be the most awesome example I have ever read.

pilatus1 22.11.2015 12:46

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
lol, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. But it doesn't matter. Clearly not believing in aliens and potentially being racist against Swiss people are unrelated. Same goes for not believing in Islam and potentially being racist against, against, who??:confused: Was a particular race ever even mentioned in these threads about the Paris shootings or about Muslims?:confused::confused::

pilatus1 22.11.2015 12:58

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 

halevai 22.11.2015 13:11

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pixie B (Post 2490380)
I have a question about the books...



Assuming that God exists and that both the Qu'ran and the Bible are true (perhaps there are multiple realities and dimensions and universes; both could be true at the same time! ;)

Why do believers trust the word of some long-dead humans? How do we know the humans that wrote the books didn't make some of it up? Genuine question, and I'm not questioning faith in religion or faith in God. I'm questioning faith in other humans. Humans wrote the books... Humans are liars...we all lie to varying extent... Can't people just believe in their God(s) without the books? Sure the books have cool stories and lessons in them but why do people just accept that these writers had direct contact with God to write them? If someone says in the 21st century that they've literally had direct contact with God nobody believes them :confused:


With Islam it's a matter of faith. There is no proof that their Book is divine, as there are some major mistakes in it.


1. The Koran says that the Torah (Old Testament) is from G-d and acknowledges that the Jews are the Chosen People. That G-d gave the land of Israel to the Jews. They Claim that after christianity G-d gave the prophecy over to Mohammed. This is a major mistake because it says clearly in the Old Testament that after the destruction of the second Temple G-d tood away the prophecy from the world. Second mistake: how could Mohammed be a Prophet when he didn't even know how to read or write ?


2. Sura 40 Verse 36-37 The Koran mentions Pharao speaking to Haman. This could never have happened as Pharao (Egypt) lived 900 years before Haman.(Persia)


3. Sura 28 Verse 7-9 The Koran says that the wife of Pharao raised Musa (Moses). Mistake: In the Old Testament it says that Batya, the daughter of Pharao raised Musa (Moses)


4. According to the Koran the uncle of Jesus was Musa (Moses). How can that be if he lived 1300 years before Jesus was Born ?


5. Sura 10 Verse 94 the Koran says if you have any doubts go and ask the children of Israel.











cannut 22.11.2015 13:46

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pilatus1 (Post 2490441)
I'm not supporting the post that you argue aginst, but teaching Arabic is not the same as teaching Islam. This is part of the problem. Everything gets grouped together through stereotype. I'm against Islamic doctrine? I must be racist. Someone speaks Arabic? They must be Islamic.

My neighbor believes in aliens. He's Swiss. We argue about it, because I think that's a bunch of nonsense. But he doesn't call me racist against Swiss people.


So now I am an alien . This explaines a lot . :cool:

halevai 22.11.2015 14:00

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Correction of my earlier post.
Not Japan, it's Tokyo, one of the only major capitols in the world which has so few muslim embassies.

Corbets 22.11.2015 14:08

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by halevai (Post 2490474)
With Islam it's a matter of faith. There is no proof that their Book is divine, as there are some major mistakes in it.

O rly????

Sorry, I just couldn't think of any other response to that one. There are some pretty sweeping implications in that statement. I also think you need to revisit the logical consistency of your arguments in that post; I'm not sure what prophecy has to do with literacy.

parnell 22.11.2015 14:14

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by halevai (Post 2490474)
With Islam it's a matter of faith. There is no proof that their Book is divine, as there are some major mistakes in it.

1. Second mistake: how could Mohammed be a Prophet when he didn't even know how to read or write ?

Does a prophet neccessarily need to be the one writing ? Couldn't he/she be dictating ?

pilatus1 22.11.2015 14:18

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by parnell (Post 2490491)
Does a prophet neccessarily need to be the one writing ? Couldn't he/she be dictating ?

Sure, that's sometimes a source of contention among Muslims themselves. Did the scribes really write down exactly what Allah told to Mohammed, who in turn told them? How much was lost in the translation?

butchersblock 22.11.2015 14:26

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by halevai (Post 2490485)
Correction of my earlier post.
Not Japan, it's Tokyo, one of the only major capitols in the world which has so few muslim embassies.

Here are just a handful

Embassy of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

4-6-17, Minami-Azabu, Minato-ku, Tokyo. Post Code: 106-0047
Tel. 03-5421-7741
H.E. Mr. Farukh AMIL, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary.
Embassy of the Kingdom of Morocco

Chancery: 5-4-30 Minami-Aoyama, Minato-ku, Tokyo. Post Code: 107-0062
Tel. 03-5485-7171
H.E. Mr. Samir Arrour, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary.

Embassy of the Islamic Republic of Mauritania

Chancery: 5-17-5, Kita-Shinagawa, Shinagawa-ku, Tokyo. Post Code: 141-0001
Tel. 03-3449-3810
H.E. Mr. Yahya NGAM, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary.



Embassy of the Republic of Maldives

Chancery: Iikura IT Building 8F, 1-9-10, Azabudai, Minato-ku, Tokyo. Post Code: 106-0041
Tel: 03-6234-4315
H.E. Mr. Ahmed KHALEEL, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary.
Embassy of Libya

Chancery: 10-14, Daikanyama-cho, Shibuya-ku, Tokyo. Post Code: 150-0034
Tel. 03-3477-0701
H.E. Mr. Ahmed Abdel Karim Salem OWN, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary
Embassy of the Republic of Lebanon

Chancery: Residence Viscountess #410, 1-11-36, Akasaka, Minato-ku, Tokyo. Post Code: 107-0052
Tel. 03-5114-9950
Ms. Iman Younes, Chargé d'Affaires ad interim.
Embassy of the State of Kuwait

Chancery: 4-13-12, Mita, Minato-ku, Tokyo. Post Code: 108-0073
Tel. 03-3455-0361
H.E. Mr. Abdul-Rahman Humood Al-Otaibi, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary.
Embassy of the Republic of Kosovo

Chancery: MG Atago Bldg.10F 3-13-7 Nishi-Shinbashi, Minato-ku, Tokyo. Post Code: 105-0003
Tel. 03-6809-2577
Ms. Rudina BUKOSHI, Chargé d'Affaires ad interim.


Embassy of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan

Chancery: 39-8, Kamiyama-cho, Shibuya-ku, Tokyo. Post Code: 150-0047
Tel. 03-5478-7177
H.E. Mr. Demiye Zuher HADDAD, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary.

Embassy of the Republic of Iraq

Chancery: La Vie en Palace Shoto, 14-6 Kamiyama-cho, Shibuya-ku, Tokyo. Post Code: 150-0047
Tel. 03-5790-5311
H.E. Mr. Alaa Majid Al- HASHIMY, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary.

Embassy of the Islamic Republic of Iran

Chancery: 3-13-9, Minami-Azabu, Minato-ku, Tokyo. Post Code: 106-0047
Tel. 03-3446-8011/5
H.E. Dr. Reza NAZARAHARI, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary.

Embassy of the Republic of Indonesia

Chancery: 5-2-9, Higashi-Gotanda, Shinagawa-ku, Tokyo. Post Code: 141-0022
Tel. 03-3441-4201
H.E. Dr. Yusron IHZA MAHENDRA, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary.

22 yards 22.11.2015 15:06

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by halevai (Post 2490474)
1. The Koran says that the Torah (Old Testament) is from G-d and acknowledges that the Jews are the Chosen People. That G-d gave the land of Israel to the Jews. They Claim that after christianity G-d gave the prophecy over to Mohammed. This is a major mistake because it says clearly in the Old Testament that after the destruction of the second Temple G-d tood away the prophecy from the world. Second mistake: how could Mohammed be a Prophet when he didn't even know how to read or write ?


What's with the "G-d"? Is the "O" key missing from your keyboard? Or is this along the lines of depictions of Mohammed or mentioning Lord Voldemort?

Quote:

Originally Posted by halevai (Post 2490474)
Not Japan, it's Tokyo, one of the only major capitols in the world which has so few muslim embassies.

What exactly is a "muslim embassy"? Presumably they're somewhat different to Christian embassies.

halevai 22.11.2015 15:07

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by parnell (Post 2490491)
Does a prophet neccessarily need to be the one writing ? Couldn't he/she be dictating ?


You're right.

halevai 22.11.2015 15:20

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbets (Post 2490488)
O rly????

Sorry, I just couldn't think of any other response to that one. There are some pretty sweeping implications in that statement. I also think you need to revisit the logical consistency of your arguments in that post; I'm not sure what prophecy has to do with literacy.


https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/illiterate
Illiterate: 1. unable to read and write
2. violating acceted standards in reading and writing
3. uneducated, ignorant or uncultured.


Doesn't really fit to the image of a Prophet, does it ?


butchersblock 22.11.2015 15:20

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 22 yards (Post 2490521)
Or is this along the lines of depictions of Mohammed or mentioning Lord Voldemort?
.

Yes

pilatus1 22.11.2015 15:29

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by butchersblock (Post 2490527)

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

parnell 22.11.2015 15:30

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Very good article here about Molenbeek - the place where a lot of the recent Islamist violence has originated written by a war photographer... it resonates with a lot of what has been said on this thread :

Quote:

I called Molenbeek my home for nine years. In 2005, it was the city’s last affordable neighborhood — in large part because of its bad reputation. My apartment, just across the canal from the city center, is close to the home where two suspects in the Paris attacks were based, and around the corner from where the shooter from the foiled Thalys attack in August had been staying.
Quote:

Slowly, we woke up to reality. Hassan turned out to be a crook and disappeared with €95,000, the entire budget the tenants had pooled together for our building’s renovation. The neighborhood was hardly multicultural. Rather, with roughly 80 percent of the population of Moroccan origin, it was tragically conformist and homogenous. There may be a vibrant alternative culture in Casablanca and Marrakech, but certainly not in Molenbeek.

Over nine years, as I witnessed the neighborhood become increasingly intolerant. Alcohol became unavailable in most shops and supermarkets; I heard stories of fanatics at the Comte des Flandres metro station who pressured women to wear the veil; Islamic bookshops proliferated, and it became impossible to buy a decent newspaper. With an unemployment rate of 30 percent, the streets were eerily empty until late in the morning. Nowhere was there a bar or café where white, black and brown people would mingle. Instead, I witnessed petty crime, aggression, and frustrated youths who spat at our girlfriends and called them “filthy whores.” If you made a remark, you were inevitably scolded and called a racist. There used to be Jewish shops on Chaussée de Gand, but these were terrorized by gangs of young kids and most closed their doors around 2008. Openly gay people were routinely intimidated, and also packed up their bags.

I finally left Molenbeek in 2014. It was not out of fear. The tipping point, I remember, was an encounter with a Salafist, who tried to convert me on my street. It boiled down to this: I could no longer stand to live in this despondent, destitute, fatalistic neighborhood.
Quote:

The debate is paralyzed by a paternalistic discourse in which radical Muslim youths are seen, above all, as victims of social and economic exclusion. They in turn internalize this frame of reference, of course, because it arouses sympathy and frees them from taking responsibility for their actions. The former Socialist mayor Philippe Moureax, who governed Molenbeek from 1992 to 2012 as his private fiefdom, perfected this culture of denial and is to a large extent responsible for the current state of affairs in the neighborhood.

Two journalists had already reported on the presence of radical Islamists in Molenbeek and the danger they posed — and both became victims of character assassination. In 2006, Hind Fraihi, a young Flemish woman of Morrocan descent published “Undercover in Little Morocco: Behind the Closed Doors of Radical Islam.” Her community called her a traitor; progressive media called her a “spy” and a “girl with personal problems.”

In 2008, Arthur van Amerongen was tarred and feathered for “Brussels Eurabia,” and called a “Batavian Fascist” by a francophone newspaper. When he and I went back to Molenbeek in March and I subsequently described it as an “ethnic and religious enclave and a parochial, closed community” in an interview with Brussel Deze Week, that too provoked the wrath of progressive Belgium and an ensuing media storm.


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