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-   -   All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe) (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/244043-all-about-muslims-wake-terrorist-attacks-europe.html)

esto 28.08.2017 22:19

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2838658)
You see only what you want to see :)

...or what you don't want to see....

Lex 28.08.2017 22:19

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 22 yards (Post 2837910)

We encourage our members to voice their opinions and robustly argue their points in a respectful manner. Of course disagreements are to be expected, but we expect members not to troll, stir up religious and/or racial hatred, post deliberately misleading or provocative articles, or bully or attack those that they disagree with.

In all fairness, this extends to one of your mods also. It is bordering on trolling - hence the merry go round.

amogles 28.08.2017 23:22

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2838617)
No, you are wrong!
The Latin root is excommunicare which means "put out of the community" so not only are you banned from receiving Communion but also the privileges of the church; cutting a person off from a religious society.
Perhaps you can explain how you can call yourself a Catholic when you are banned from entering Catholic churches and other establishments and banned from communicating and confessing to Catholic Priests.

A lot of Catholiocs don't even go to church regularly, if at all. But they are still Catholics.

st2lemans 29.08.2017 08:20

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2838617)
Perhaps you can explain how you can call yourself a Catholic when you are banned from entering Catholic churches and other establishments.

If you are ex-communicated, you are NOT banned from entering churches, just from receiving sacrements. :rolleyes:

Tom

J2488 29.08.2017 09:02

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
This whole thread is pretty embarassing for EF, to be honest.

Blueangel 29.08.2017 09:13

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2838767)
This whole thread is pretty embarassing for EF, to be honest.

You ain't seen nothing yet. Next week they're solving Israel & Palestine. UN's missing a trick not having EF members on it's council. ;)

greenmount 29.08.2017 09:15

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pilatus1 (Post 2837785)


Europe's arrogance will be it's downfall.

Too much faith in the superiority of their values and the unproved conviction that their values will naturally be embraced by everyone. If it was like that it would have happened long time ago. It didn't.

But it's not (only) arrogance, it's about being very naive and easy to be fooled. Combined with the fact that people are not allowed to think with their own heads anymore.

Castro 29.08.2017 09:32

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by esto (Post 2838656)
You know what, I don't give a flying fig who's book says what, who is a "real" Christian/Muslim/whatever...what I do care about is ending the violence that we are seeing committed in the name of Islam every day all around the world. ANd so far I have not heard any answers here, only excuses, denials, etc..

As a scientist I would say that there are far too many variables in the equation. You have oil, politics, one-sided Israel policies, US Imperialism, GCC meddling, religion, tribalism, territorial expansion, Proxy US-Russian fighting, Arms deals, Western backed dictatorships, jobs in Fort Worth etc..

So yeah, unless you can nail down a few of these variables good luck trying to solve the problem.

Blueangel 29.08.2017 09:37

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Or just break the men - power - profit - greed cycle.

esto 29.08.2017 09:47

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2838795)
As a scientist I would say that there are far too many variable in the equation. You have oil, politics, US Imperialism, GCC meddling, religion, tribalism, territorial expansion, Proxy US-Russian fighting, Arms deals, Western backed dictatorships, jobs in Fort Worth etc..

So yeah, unless you can nail down a few of these variables good luck trying to solve the problem.

You can eliminate many of the variables immediately:

Oil: many countries have oil, Norway, Russia, S.America... not so much problems with Islamic Terrorism (except Islamic parts of Russia). So we can cross out oil as a root cause.

Politics: all countries have politics, not all countries have Islamic terror problems. Cross it out.

US Imperialism: blaming the US is always easy, however, US is active in many regions of the world, ex. South Korea, Japan, where no Islamic terrorism is present

Tribalism/Territorial expansion: this is definitely part of the reason for fighting in the ME. But many countries/areas also have this problem, without invoking terrorism against civilian populations (eg. Russia/Ukraine fighting)

US/Russia proxy fighting: see Ukraine, no Islamic terrorism there. In fact, look at all of E.Europe, the whole Cold War had many of the variables you stated (politics, US imperialism, US/Russia proxys, politics) yet no Islamic terrorism, or really terrorism of any kind....

Maybe...going out on a limb here...but maybe, Islamic terrorism has more to do with Islam than all of the other variables you threw out there? :confused:

Castro 29.08.2017 09:55

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by esto (Post 2838802)
You can eliminate many of the variables immediately:

Oil: many countries have oil, Norway, Russia, S.America... not so much problems with Islamic Terrorism (except Islamic parts of Russia). So we can cross out oil as a root cause.

Politics: all countries have politics, not all countries have Islamic terror problems. Cross it out.

US Imperialism: blaming the US is always easy, however, US is active in many regions of the world, ex. South Korea, Japan, where no Islamic terrorism is present

Tribalism/Territorial expansion: this is definitely part of the reason for fighting in the ME. But many countries/areas also have this problem, without invoking terrorism against civilian populations (eg. Russia/Ukraine fighting)

US/Russia proxy fighting: see Ukraine, no Islamic terrorism there. In fact, look at all of E.Europe, the whole Cold War had many of the variables you stated (politics, US imperialism, US/Russia proxys, politics) yet no Islamic terrorism, or really terrorism of any kind....

Maybe...going out on a limb here...but maybe, Islamic terrorism has more to do with Islam than all of the other variables you threw out there? :confused:

Religion has been present since the 7th century, why haven't we seen 1400 years of terrorism?
cue.. furious googling

Capo 29.08.2017 09:58

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2838600)
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is listed as an anti Muslim extremist by the Southern Poverty Law Centre.



Hahahaha, give me a break! Women are brutally subjugated, homosexuals killed, children run over by vans, but according to a Marxist group "some parts of her story are not true" is more important?!? :jester:



Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2838600)

Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a Somali-born activist who says she endured female genital mutilation and fled civil wars and an arranged marriage in Africa. She then moved to the Netherlands and became a parliamentarian for a time. But key parts of the story she told Dutch immigration authorities and the public there turned out to be false — she had never witnessed any civil war, attendees said she was at her wedding despite her claim to have not been present, and her husband paid her way to Europe and later granted her a divorce. Leaving the Netherlands after quitting its Parliament in disgrace, Hirsi Ali became a citizen of the United States, accepting an invitation to join the conservative American Enterprise Institute. Although she now positions herself as an ex-Muslim champion of women’s rights, her anti-Muslim rhetoric is remarkably toxic. In 2007, she told Reason magazine that the West should “defeat” Islam and that “we are war with Islam.” The same year, she said that Islam was “the new fascism” and a “destructive, nihilistic cult of death” in an interview with The London Evening Standard. In 2014, Brandeis University withdrew its offer of an honorary degree for her, saying that it had been unaware of her vitriolic attacks on Islam. While in the Netherlands, she wrote the script for a short and provocative film about women and Islam directed by the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, who was murdered in the street by a jihadist a short time after its release. The murderer left a note threatening to also kill Hirsi Ali pinned to his victim’s body with a knife.


amogles 29.08.2017 09:59

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2838807)
Religion has been present since the 7th century, why haven't we seen 1400 years of terrorism?
cue.. furious googling

I thought you said you were a scientist.

Then you will know there is a difference between a sufficient condition and a necessary condition.

http://philosophy.wisc.edu/hausman/3...ll/nec-suf.htm

marton 29.08.2017 10:02

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2838807)
Religion has been present since the 7th century, why haven't we seen 1400 years of terrorism?
cue.. furious googling

True so what changed 40 years ago?

esto 29.08.2017 10:03

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2838807)
Religion has been present since the 7th century, why haven't we seen 1400 years of terrorism?
cue.. furious googling

Good question. My hypothesis (based on zero Googling) is that religions evolve, and go thru different stages. Christianity had a very dark and violent period before it became reformed. I would say that right now is a dark period for Islam...and it's now time for a reformation...

What's your thoughts? It's all America's fault?

JoeUK 29.08.2017 10:03

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2838807)
Religion has been present since the 7th century, why haven't we seen 1400 years of terrorism?
cue.. furious googling

Depends on your definition of terrorism. For sure millions of people have been slaughtered within that timeframe in allegiance to imaginary friends.

amogles 29.08.2017 10:12

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2838631)
It is not an argument, it is a statement of fact.
If you do not understand that simple statement that says more about you than it says about the statement.

To try to make it simple for you look at this way, all three religions are Abrahamic religions.
This means each religion was started by Abraham.
Abraham had one God.
The one God of each religion is the same one God of Abraham.
You are free to read the holy book of each religion to confirm each religion was started by Abraham. :)

If you go back in time you will find that Rugby and Soccer were once the same game, but that the rules evolved differently.

But you wouldn't argue that a Rugby ball is the same shape as a Soccer ball now, would you, or that all the same rules apply?

Just because three major religions were started by the same guy, this does not mean they haven't evolved, each in their own way, and that their present concepts and understanding of God are still identical.

amogles 29.08.2017 10:17

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrVertigo (Post 2838392)

"Allah is great" is not the shahada my dear and does not make you muslim as stated by other ignorant posters....... the shahada has 2 parts:
- there is no other god than God , and Muhammad is his prophet.

OK, let's take you by your word.

Do you have evidence that ISIS people left out the second part of that proclamation?

If not, what relevance does this have to them being or not not being Muslims?

Pashosh 29.08.2017 10:25

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Castro (Post 2838795)
As a scientist I would say that there are far too many variables in the equation. You have oil, politics, one-sided Israel policies, US Imperialism, GCC meddling, religion, tribalism, territorial expansion, Proxy US-Russian fighting, Arms deals, Western backed dictatorships, jobs in Fort Worth etc..

So yeah, unless you can nail down a few of these variables good luck trying to solve the problem.

Israel has nothing to do with Islamist terrorism except as an anti semitic excuse.

pilatus1 29.08.2017 10:29

Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by marton (Post 2838631)
It is not an argument, it is a statement of fact.
If you do not understand that simple statement that says more about you than it says about the statement.

To try to make it simple for you look at this way, all three religions are Abrahamic religions.
This means each religion was started by Abraham.
Abraham had one God.
The one God of each religion is the same one God of Abraham.
You are free to read the holy book of each religion to confirm each religion was started by Abraham. :)


People are killing each other over a dumb story made up by caravan robber, and the response is to argue the details of the story... to decide if everyone who has heard and believes the story is a true story believer or not.

'statements of fact', lol..


Quote:

Originally Posted by J2488 (Post 2838767)
This whole thread is pretty embarassing for EF, to be honest.


Islam is pretty embarrassing for modern man, to be honest.


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