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  #1221  
Old 31.08.2017, 20:51
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

I imagine this means we'll be seeing new threads for all the bigots to express their take on Jews, Christians, Buddhists and the thousands of other religions out there.

Might be more efficient, however, to just have one megathread for bigotry in general
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  #1222  
Old 31.08.2017, 20:58
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I imagine this means we'll be seeing new threads for all the bigots to express their take on Jews, Christians, Buddhists and the thousands of other religions out there.

Might be more efficient, however, to just have one megathread for bigotry in general
Are you trying to shut down the conversation?

Who are you? Stalin?
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  #1223  
Old 31.08.2017, 21:55
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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......................

Edit - you mean like in June when Tehran was targeted by suicide bombers and teams of gunmen when they stormed Iran's parliament and the nearby shrine of Ruhollah Khomeini or in February when a suicide bomber entered the main hall of the Shrine of Lal Shahbaz Qalandar in Sehwan, Pakistan and detonated his payload amid dozens of worshippers.
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Shia Muslims are as bad as "imperialist lapdog" Muslims in the eyes of ISIS and their fellow travellers.
Actually Lal Shahbaz Qalandar was a Sufi and Sufi's are usually associated with the Sunni Muslim sect?
Answer is a bit late I know, but sometimes I have a life which gets in the way

Maybe Lal Shahbaz Qalandar was a religious exception, how would I know?
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  #1224  
Old 31.08.2017, 22:15
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Maybe not the best thread for this but anyway;
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One of the most controversial trials in Pakistani history has ended with the former military dictator Pervez Musharraf declared a fugitive and his property ordered confiscated after he failed to show in court over the assassination 10 years ago of Benazir Bhutto.

Two high-ranking police officials were sentenced on Thursday to 17 years in prison but the verdict, while bringing some closure to a process many had thought would never conclude stops short of sentencing anyone for the murder.

By failing to bring its most prominent suspect, ex-president Musharraf, to justice, the anti-terrorism court in Rawalpindi set “a dangerous precedent,” said Saroop Ijaz, a lawyer and researcher with Human Rights Watch in Pakistan.
“This is a farce. Musharraf is in plain sight. And he regularly appears on television.”
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As they say here "the fish stinks from the head"
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  #1225  
Old 31.08.2017, 22:32
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I think it also has much to do with tensions between the Islamic World and the West. Islamic traditionalists see a massive imperialist drive by Western nations to establish puppet governments in their countries and to introduce Western values and culture by stealth.
What's interesting and worth noting, is that "Western Traditionalists" see the mass influx of mainly Muslim migrants into the EU in pretty much the same way (ie: to establish Islamic culture in the Western world). So yea, something of a culture clash going on here too...


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When people say, there have been more Muslim victims of Islamic terrorism than Western ones, what they miss is that in the eyes of the extremists, the partly secularized governments of their countries and the non radicalized people on the street and all around them are part of the Western cancer that is threatening and eroding their version of Islam. They are thus not killing Muslims for the sake of killing muslims but killing the Muslims who are too westernized.
The whole "liberation of Iraq" by the US, and the "Arab Spring" was supposed to give the people of the ME freedom and democracy...but it didn't quite turn out like that. Maybe because of some of the reasons you mention above.

But it's not limited to the ME, there is also plenty deep in Africa or Asia where no Western countries are trying to really do or change anything. I'm not sure they are feeling "threatened" that their religion/culture is trying to be taken? (ie: on the "defensive")Or are they going on the "offensive", and trying to gain ground and threatening other cultures/religions?

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Southeast Asia has faced multiple terrorist attacks in the recent past, particularly in Indonesia and Malaysia. The Prime Minister of Singapore, Lee Hsien Loong, has called Southeast Asia a “key recruitment area for ISIS,” and during the opening of the ASEAN summit in November, the Malaysian Prime Minister, Najib Razak, said that the attacks were propelled by ISIS’ religious ideology. The increasing number of both terror threats in Malaysia and successful attacks in Indonesia could imply that ISIS has reinvigorated its terror networks as part of its plan for the region.
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  #1226  
Old 31.08.2017, 22:46
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Are you trying to shut down the conversation?

Who are you? Stalin?
Is this Godwinski's law?
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  #1227  
Old 31.08.2017, 23:36
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Is there a current, global problem with Jews, Christians, Buddhists killing thousands of random people in the name of their religion? If yes, then please feel free to start a new thread, but please try to leave your bigotry and prejudices aside (if possible)
Global problems?
Millions died in Congo, between 3 and 5 million and ongoing
Around 50,000 died in the US in 2016 from drug overdose.
Over 10,000 war deaths in Ukraine to date.
More than 10,000 murders in Mexico this year so far.
Over 13,000 murders in Duterte's drug war Philippines
460 murders this year so far in Chicago.

Compare this with around 60 people killed by Islamic terrorists in EU this year!
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  #1228  
Old 01.09.2017, 00:33
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Actually Lal Shahbaz Qalandar was a Sufi and Sufi's are usually associated with the Sunni Muslim sect?
Answer is a bit late I know, but sometimes I have a life which gets in the way

Maybe Lal Shahbaz Qalandar was a religious exception, how would I know?
Or maybe his shrine is a major Shia pilgrimage destination, which is the reason ISIS themselves gave when they claimed responsibility for the massacre.

Do keep up, clever clogs.
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  #1229  
Old 01.09.2017, 00:54
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Or maybe his shrine is a major Shia pilgrimage destination, which is the reason ISIS themselves gave when they claimed responsibility for the massacre.

Do keep up, clever clogs.
Maybe a little basic research would pay dividends?

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Attack on Lal Shahbaz Qalandar shrine was an attack on everything Sufism stands for
Sufi shrines are visited both by minority Shiite and Sunni Muslims, but radical militant groups like the Islamic State consider the practice to be against Islam
Source

Sufism, which is popular in South Asia including Pakistan, is a relatively tolerant school of Islam.
In the Sufi tradition, adherents often worship at the shrine of esteemed saints where musicians lead the crowd of devotees in ecstatic song and dance of devotion, also known as dhikr, in which the worshipper is absorbed in the rhythmic repetition of the name of God or his attributes.

"Clever Clogs"? - I must muse what could be a polite antonym
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  #1230  
Old 01.09.2017, 01:05
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Maybe a little basic research would pay dividends?



Source

Sufism, which is popular in South Asia including Pakistan, is a relatively tolerant school of Islam.
In the Sufi tradition, adherents often worship at the shrine of esteemed saints where musicians lead the crowd of devotees in ecstatic song and dance of devotion, also known as dhikr, in which the worshipper is absorbed in the rhythmic repetition of the name of God or his attributes.

"Clever Clogs"? - I must muse what could be a polite antonym
Don't tell me, tell ISIS. The point still stands.

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  #1231  
Old 01.09.2017, 08:40
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I think that is definitely part of it, but not the full story, beacause as others have said, there have also been peaceful periods in Islamic History.

I think it also has much to do with tensions between the Islamic World and the West. Islamic traditionalists see a massive imperialist drive by Western nations to establish puppet governments in their countries and to introduce Western values and culture by stealth.
.

And isn't that true? It's not only about bringing the Western culture (what do you mean actually - democracy, secularism or trying to change old traditions people don't want to change to begin with) but also the mercantilistic interests that the West is pursuing over there. Why don't they leave all these countries run their affairs in their own way.
To make a change you need that critical mass that wants a change, otherwise you replace one kind of tyranny with another. Places and people evolve at their own pace. And not everything that comes from the West is better hehe.
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  #1232  
Old 01.09.2017, 08:49
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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And isn't that true? It's not only about bringing the Western culture (what do you mean actually - democracy, secularism or trying to change old traditions people don't want to change to begin with) but also the mercantilistic interests that the West is pursuing over there. Why don't they leave all these countries run their affairs in their own way.
To make a change you need that critical mass that wants a change, otherwise you replace one kind of tyranny with another. Places and people evolve at their own pace. And not everything that comes from the West is better hehe.
Or if you are lucky like Syria you get Russia instead
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  #1233  
Old 01.09.2017, 09:00
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Or if you are lucky like Syria you get Russia instead
Hmm, Syria was not doing that bad.... A decent education system, relatively decent living standards....so it had to go of course. Whoosh...
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  #1234  
Old 01.09.2017, 13:41
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I think that is definitely part of it, but not the full story, beacause as others have said, there have also been peaceful periods in Islamic History.

I think it also has much to do with tensions between the Islamic World and the West. Islamic traditionalists see a massive imperialist drive by Western nations to establish puppet governments in their countries and to introduce Western values and culture by stealth.

When people say, there have been more Muslim victims of Islamic terrorism than Western ones, what they miss is that in the eyes of the extremists, the partly secularized governments of their countries and the non radicalized people on the street and all around them are part of the Western cancer that is threatening and eroding their version of Islam. They are thus not killing Muslims for the sake of killing muslims but killing the Muslims who are too westernized.
"Islamic traditionalists see a massive imperialist drive by Western nations to establish puppet governments in their countries and to introduce Western values and culture by stealth." But that is not new is it? Around 100 years ago after World War 1 and the end of the Ottoman Empire it was mostly divided up between the Western powers.
North Africa was also mostly under Western rule.

Of course there were militant groups seeking to make their countries independent but basically within their own countries. The terrorism in Europe only started ca. 30 years ago so what changed?
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  #1235  
Old 01.09.2017, 14:05
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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"Islamic traditionalists see a massive imperialist drive by Western nations to establish puppet governments in their countries and to introduce Western values and culture by stealth." But that is not new is it? Around 100 years ago after World War 1 and the end of the Ottoman Empire it was mostly divided up between the Western powers.
North Africa was also mostly under Western rule.

Of course there were militant groups seeking to make their countries independent but basically within their own countries. The terrorism in Europe only started ca. 30 years ago so what changed?
There have been conflicts within the Muslim world for much of the 20th Century. Think of the Suez conflict, the 7 day war, think of the events surrounding Pakistan's independence, the Russians in Afghanistan etc.

It's just these last few years the conflict has been escalated to our doorsteps so we get to be more aware of it.
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  #1236  
Old 01.09.2017, 14:08
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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"Islamic traditionalists see a massive imperialist drive by Western nations to establish puppet governments in their countries and to introduce Western values and culture by stealth." But that is not new is it? Around 100 years ago after World War 1 and the end of the Ottoman Empire it was mostly divided up between the Western powers.
North Africa was also mostly under Western rule.

Of course there were militant groups seeking to make their countries independent but basically within their own countries. The terrorism in Europe only started ca. 30 years ago so what changed?
Here's a geopolitical perspective:

http://atlanticsentinel.com/2017/02/...mic-socialism/
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  #1237  
Old 01.09.2017, 14:10
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I imagine this means we'll be seeing new threads for all the bigots to express their take on Jews, Christians, Buddhists and the thousands of other religions out there.
Excellent idea.
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  #1238  
Old 01.09.2017, 14:36
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Turkey a core power?

Since the dramatic failure of their "Policy of Zero Problems with our Neighbors" they have practically no good relations with their neighbours.
  • The government in Baghdad, far from seeing Mr. Erdogan as “the president of all Muslims,” considers the Turkish military an occupying force.
  • They backed the wrong horse in Egypt which destroyed their relationship.
  • They destroyed an excellent relationship with Israel to try to gain some points with the Arabs.
  • Syria they are backing the rebels who now look likely to lose.
  • Greece; they are almost enemies.
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  #1239  
Old 01.09.2017, 15:05
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Turkey a core power?

Since the dramatic failure of their "Policy of Zero Problems with our Neighbors" they have practically no good relations with their neighbours.
  • The government in Baghdad, far from seeing Mr. Erdogan as “the president of all Muslims,” considers the Turkish military an occupying force.
  • They backed the wrong horse in Egypt which destroyed their relationship.
  • They destroyed an excellent relationship with Israel to try to gain some points with the Arabs.
  • Syria they are backing the rebels who now look likely to lose.
  • Greece; they are almost enemies.
Yes they are.
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  #1240  
Old 01.09.2017, 15:14
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Have to agree here... IMO, this is not "hate speech" and if your own political leanings makes you think it is hate speech, then you are treading on a slippery slope, Castro.

Moreover, a one month ban for stating opinions that many reasonable people would not consider excessive... remember Voltaire, I say (even if he wasn't the first to say it)!

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You are treading on thin ice KK, any more of your hate and you will be off on one.
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