All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe) - Page 70

Urs Max · #**1381** 22.09.2017, 17:57

	Quote:	Pashosh
	If that was true , there would be little need for this thread and world a much more peaceul place

Yaaaawn. Feel free to intentionally misinterpret whatever you feel like misinterpreting.

Urs Max · #**1382** 22.09.2017, 17:59

	Quote:	amogles
	People are being deported to Pakistan all the time. So I assume it is technically and legally possible. But I guess there is paperwork involved and I guess somebody who knows they are about to be deported might chose to hide, making it all more difficult. But somebody already in prison can't hide that easily, so it may actually be easier overall. Example here: https://www.ots.at/presseaussendung/...-durchgefuehrt This may be Austria, but if Austria can do it, I'd be surprised if the Uk can't.

"All the time" seems a bit rich as this is the third this year with half a dozen countries contributing. But yes, generally speaking some can be deported. What isn't known is how many else the EU wants but can't deport so if there's a bottleneck on the receiving side or not.

amogles · #**1383** 22.09.2017, 18:04

	Quote:	Urs Max
	"All the time" seems a bit rich as this is the third this year with half a dozen countries contributing. But yes, generally speaking some can be deported. What isn't known is how many else the EU wants but can't deport so if there's a bottleneck on the receiving side or not.

Quite possibly.

But that's why previously I spoke of prioritizing.

It seems unjust to be deporting harmless and well meaning folks while dangerous ones are not being deported.

Blueangel · #**1384** 22.09.2017, 18:10

	Quote:
	The highest number of enforced removals in 2015 was for Albanian nationals (1,260; 10% of the total) who have also shown the largest increase (+318; +34%) compared to 2014. The second highest was for Pakistani nationals (1,170; 10% of the total) who have also shown the largest decrease (-653; -36%). The highest number of passengers refused entry at port and subsequently departed was for United States nationals (1,813; 10% of the total), who have also shown the largest decrease compared with the previous year (-227; -11%). The second and third highest numbers were for Albanian (1,169; 7% of the total) and Brazilian nationals (874; 5% of the total). United States and Brazilian nationals who are not coming to the UK for work or for 6 months or more do not need to apply for, and be issued with, a visa prior to arrival. The first time that they can be refused entry will therefore be on arrival in the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ary-departures

I didn't expect that!

Urs Max · #**1385** 23.09.2017, 01:16

	Quote:	amogles
	Quite possibly. But that's why previously I spoke of prioritizing. It seems unjust to be deporting harmless and well meaning folks while dangerous ones are not being deported.

You're implying there's a kinda choice, that things can be sped up by acting quicker locally. This squarely refers back to the potential bottleneck mentioned above.

As a general rule, elements despised in one society for being unruly (to call it that) are probably unwanted in most societies. For this point alone, hardly any country should be expected to welcome people who are unwelcome here with open arms. Or support/enable a speedy deportation process.

marton · #**1386** 23.09.2017, 03:05

	Quote:	Pashosh
	Why not ? if a foreign national commits a serious crime he/she can be deported. the U.S has been doing it for decades. Returning to the U.K with another identity won't be easy nor cheap.

I am sure that getting another identity in say Pakistan or other ME countries is both easy and cheap.

I notice that mostly when terrorists are identified after some violent act then often there is a whole list of names that they are known by?
For example the London Bridge attack; Redouane is listed on his daughter’s birth certificate as Moroccan and gives his profession as pastry chef. However police said he also claimed to be Libyan and has in the past used the name Rachid Elkhdar, claiming to be six years younger.

Chuff · #**1387** 23.09.2017, 13:33

	Quote:	Castro
	Rohingya crisis: Johnson warns Suu Kyi over Muslim treatment Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has warned Myanmar's Aung San Suu Kyi that the treatment of the Muslim Rohingya is "besmirching" the country's reputation. Mr Johnson called on Ms Suu Kyi, the country's de facto leader, to "use her remarkable qualities" to end prejudice against Muslims in Rakhine state. Violence in the province erupted about a week ago, with some 58,000 refugees fleeing to neighbouring Bangladesh. More than 100 people are thought to have died in the violence. The Rohingya claim that security forces and Buddhist mobs of burning their villages. Security officials in Myanmar, also known as Burma, claim they are reacting to more than 20 attacks on police posts by Muslim Rohingya militants. Rakhine, the poorest region in Myanmar, is home to more than a million Rohingya. They have faced decades of persecution in the Buddhist-majority country, where they are not considered citizens. Ms Suu Kyi won the Nobel Peace Prize for her political activism in Myanmar, which led to the first non-military elected head of state in the country since the military coup in 1962. Although Htin Kyaw was sworn in as president in 2016 - as Ms Suu Kyi is constitutionally barred from holding the position - she is considered the de facto leader of the country. Ms Suu Kyi, who has the title state counsellor of Myanmar, came to prominence in the 1990s when she was placed under house arrest by the military government. Mr Johnson said: "Aung San Suu Kyi is rightly regarded as one of the most inspiring figures of our age, but the treatment of the Rohingya is alas besmirching the reputation of Burma. "She faces huge challenges in modernising her country. I hope she can now use all her remarkable qualities to unite her country, to stop the violence and to end the prejudice that afflicts both Muslims and other communities in Rakhine. "It is vital that she receives the support of the Burmese military, and that her attempts at peacemaking are not frustrated. "She and all in Burma will have our full support in this." Burma Campaign UK - which lobbies European governments in a bid to restore human rights and democracy in Burma - believes the foreign secretary could have gone further in his remarks. Its director, Mark Farmaner, said Mr Johnson should have also criticised the armed forces' commander-in-chief, Ming Aung Hlaing. He said: "Min Aung Hlaing's soldiers are the ones killing hundreds of Rohingya and he is the only person in Burma with the power to order soldiers to stop attacking Rohingya villagers, shooting children and burning families alive in their homes." Source

This is worth quoting again considering the terrible things that are being perpetrated against Muslims in Myanmar http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7926521.html

Pashosh · #**1388** 23.09.2017, 22:48

	Quote:	marton
	I am sure that getting another identity in say Pakistan or other ME countries is both easy and cheap.

Pakistan is not in the Middle east and getting from there to the UK with a fake identity isn't easy nor cheap. Especially after the authorities have your fingerprints and DNA.

In other news: The police caught a Muslim preacher who supported ISIS. .

"An undercover law enforcement officer recorded the 40-year-old's radical sermons from the Tunstall High Street mosque over a four-month period last year."

Why wasn't he reported by mosque visitors ? they had plenty pf time.

Castro · #**1389** 26.09.2017, 22:39

Progress at long last

Saudi women 'to be allowed driving licences'

King Salman had issued a decree allowing women to be given driving licences, the Saudi Press Agency said.

Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world that has forbidden women from driving.

Rights groups have campaigned for years to allow women in Saudi Arabia to drive. Some Saudi women have been fined and imprisoned for daring to get behind the wheel.

The decree has ordered that a ministerial body be set up to give advice within 30 days and that the order will be implemented by June 2018, according to the Saudi Press Agency.

"The royal decree will implement the provisions of traffic regulations, including the issuance of driving licences for men and women alike," the report said.

Source

marton · #**1390** 26.09.2017, 23:09

	Quote:	Castro
	Progress at long last Saudi women 'to be allowed driving licences' King Salman had issued a decree allowing women to be given driving licences, the Saudi Press Agency said. Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world that has forbidden women from driving. Rights groups have campaigned for years to allow women in Saudi Arabia to drive. Some Saudi women have been fined and imprisoned for daring to get behind the wheel. The decree has ordered that a ministerial body be set up to give advice within 30 days and that the order will be implemented by June 2018, according to the Saudi Press Agency. "The royal decree will implement the provisions of traffic regulations, including the issuance of driving licences for men and women alike," the report said. Source

As I wrote in an earlier post "My belief is that Islam, like Christianity itself already has, will slowly fade away in Western Europe and in other places that encourage education, freedom of expression and democracy."

I know it is a limited sample but most of the Muslims I know are drifting away from following many of the more burdensome rules. They do not carry prayer mats, they do not lie on the floor and face Mecca 5 times a day, they drink alcohol, marry non-Muslims, they do not have beards, Friday is not a special day....

#**1391** 27.09.2017, 11:12

	Quote:	marton
	As I wrote in an earlier post "My belief is that Islam, like Christianity itself already has, will slowly fade away in Western Europe and in other places that encourage education, freedom of expression and democracy." I know it is a limited sample but most of the Muslims I know are drifting away from following many of the more burdensome rules. They do not carry prayer mats, they do not lie on the floor and face Mecca 5 times a day, they drink alcohol, marry non-Muslims, they do not have beards, Friday is not a special day....

Unfortunately (?), those people are not usually the shouty types which act as a dog-whistle to the easily roused. There are probably millions more of the "drifting away" types, either openly or secretly, but the focus is always on the gobshites who enjoy their ongoing coverage in the tabloids.

#**1392** 28.09.2017, 09:26

The Swiss lower house has voted to stop Mosques being financed from abroad and that Imams should be obliged to preach in a Swiss national language. Very sensible in my view. You want to stop terrorism? This is how you start.

Swiss parliament in favour of tightening rules for mosques and imams

baboon · #**1393** 28.09.2017, 09:33

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The Swiss lower house has voted to stop Mosques being financed from abroad and that Imams should be obliged to preach in a Swiss national language. Very sensible in my view. You want to stop terrorism? This is how you start. Swiss parliament in favour of tightening rules for mosques and imams

I presume you would approve of christian churches in Switzerland not being allowed to preach in English either, then.

#**1394** 28.09.2017, 09:47

	Quote:	baboon
	I presume you would approve of christian churches in Switzerland not being allowed to preach in English either, then.

If Christians were being radicalised in churches and carrying out terrorist attacks then I would approve. But they're not.

baboon · #**1395** 28.09.2017, 10:02

	Quote:	Loz1983
	If Christians were being radicalised in churches and carrying out terrorist attacks then I would approve. But they're not.

So no christians anywhere in the world have ever bombed abortion clinics or attacked doctors carrying out abortions then?

FunnyBone · #**1396** 28.09.2017, 10:12

	Quote:	baboon
	So no christians anywhere in the world have ever bombed abortion clinics or attacked doctors carrying out abortions then?

Look no further than the US (but I'm sure your comment was sarcastic.). However, are there any other "first-world" countries that harass women as much as the US does? I use "first-world" in quotation marks because the US doesn't qualify as first-world when it comes to healthcare.

#**1397** 28.09.2017, 11:02

	Quote:	baboon
	So no christians anywhere in the world have ever bombed abortion clinics or attacked doctors carrying out abortions then?

Zzzzzz. Not nearly on the same scale, but you know that already. And in the US, which I don't care about, because I live in Switzerland. They're building walls around the Eiffel Tower, they're putting concrete blocks across Westminster Bridge to stop Islamic terrorist attacks. Treat the cause, not the symptoms.

#**1398** 28.09.2017, 11:14

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The Swiss lower house has voted to stop Mosques being financed from abroad and that Imams should be obliged to preach in a Swiss national language. Very sensible in my view. You want to stop terrorism? This is how you start. Swiss parliament in favour of tightening rules for mosques and imams

The language thing in mosques I find pointless, petty, self-defeating and antagonistic, and it won't stop terrorism. It's just Switzerland being uncharacteristically knee-jerking. I bloody hope they don't go down this same idiotic sledge-hammer route you see in the UK, pandering to the perpetually outraged who have pretty much contributed to the concrete-blocks-on-bridges situation themselves.

I can sort of see the idea behind stopping funding from outside but Switzerland is hardly an impoverished country. Determined people are hardly unable to fund terrorism from the inside, are they?

Castro · #**1399** 28.09.2017, 11:42

Was there a committee formed with experts in religion, extremism and security? or a report published to aid MPs in their decision making?

#**1400** 28.09.2017, 11:58

	Quote:	baboon
	I presume you would approve of christian churches in Switzerland not being allowed to preach in English either, then.

If you'd heard some of the rambling sermons at the Anglican church in Zurich, you would!