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  #1421  
Old 29.09.2017, 12:45
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I don't understand, what you are trying to dispute?

1 - The Quran has more than 100 verses that are clear about fighting non believers.
Just for balance, the bible is way more violent towards non-believers (well, and believers, it seems )
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  #1422  
Old 29.09.2017, 12:52
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Its probably a sign of the times that I could find myself agreeing with the likes of Peter Hitchens.
A committed Christian and pretty outspoken on Islam, and yet he has the clarity of thought and to see these bans and restrictions for what they truly are. Just because you don't like or understand something, its not a reason to ban or restrict it.



See 9:26 onwards
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  #1423  
Old 29.09.2017, 13:43
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Just for balance, the bible is way more violent towards non-believers (well, and believers, it seems )
So, how many millions Christians follow that literally?

The Christians evolved, they are not killing people anymore because of what is written in the bibble. Muslims on the other hand are still 400 years behind...

Last edited by Capo; 29.09.2017 at 15:38.
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Old 29.09.2017, 14:09
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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So, how many millions Christians follow that literally?

The Christians evolved, they are not killing people anymore because of that is written in the bibble. Muslims on the other hand are still 400 years behind...
Killing people in what way, though?

There are millions of Christians who take the bible literally - they may not be out there rampaging with the sword but there are a scary number of documented cases of them foregoing medical care for themselves or their loved ones in favour of "the power of prayer", for example.

If you only look for the single sensationalist stories with all the blood, guts and gore, you miss the equivalent examples which add balance.

There are many ways in which Christians have died or caused deaths through their literal beliefs.

I'm not entirely disagreeing with you about muslims but they clearly don't hold the monopoly on causing needless deaths through the word of their belief system.
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Old 29.09.2017, 14:26
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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The Christians evolved, they are not killing people anymore because of that is written in the bibble. Muslims on the other hand are still 400 years behind...
How about GWB who claims to be obeying god's orders to end the tyranny in Iraq when he had it invaded?
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Old 29.09.2017, 14:34
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

The late Christopher Hitchens put it much better in a shorter time


I'm almost sorry he was an athiest - that guy deserved heaven, if there was one .
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Old 29.09.2017, 14:51
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

I'm an atheist and couldn't abide Hitchens.

This is the thing... If you're an atheist, people assume you admire Hitchens, Dawkins, etc. If you're a socialist, people assume you admire Chomsky. I can't stand the lot of them because I'm more than capable of thinking for myself ta very much! I have a couple of very close friends who share my views, but who insist upon quoting these 'great thinkers', which to my mind, totally defeats the object of thinking for yourself.
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Old 29.09.2017, 15:34
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I don't understand, what you are trying to dispute?

1 - The Quran has more than 100 verses that are clear about fighting non believers.

2 - From the 1.6 billion Muslims, a large part (some say 160 million, some say 600M), does believe that the Quran should be followed literally.

3 - Many Westerners, Mulsim women and gays, shias and sunnis, have been suffering and dying due to 1) and 2).
Quoting single verses out of context is a meaningless exercise.

Here are two Hundred Verses about Compassionate Living in the Quran, so what?
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  #1429  
Old 29.09.2017, 15:39
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I'm an atheist and couldn't abide Hitchens.

This is the thing... If you're an atheist, people assume you admire Hitchens, Dawkins, etc. If you're a socialist, people assume you admire Chomsky. I can't stand the lot of them because I'm more than capable of thinking for myself ta very much! I have a couple of very close friends who share my views, but who insist upon quoting these 'great thinkers', which to my mind, totally defeats the object of thinking for yourself.
Which one of Hitchen's arguments do you want to refute ?
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  #1430  
Old 03.10.2017, 09:34
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Why not ? if a foreign national commits a serious crime he/she can be deported. the U.S has been doing it for decades.

Returning to the U.K with another identity won't be easy nor cheap.
Well that is your opinion but the reality is;

A man who fatally stabbed two women outside Saint-Charles station in Marseille on Sunday has been traced through his fingerprints to multiple fake identities, prosecutors have said.

The public prosecutor, Frédéric Molins, said the man had been traced through his fingerprints to seven different identities in France and several north African countries since 2005.

Source
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  #1431  
Old 03.10.2017, 10:15
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

This Islamist terrorist was never deported - I doubt he could have entered France using a fake identity.
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  #1432  
Old 03.10.2017, 11:54
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Now the truth and hopefully a fulsome apology from the Daily Mail

And to add to that:

Five-year-old girl 'misses' Muslim fosterers, court hears

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41476357

But I guess we should trust the word of her prostitute drug taking mother?
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  #1433  
Old 03.10.2017, 16:53
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I'm an atheist and couldn't abide Hitchens.

This is the thing... If you're an atheist, people assume you admire Hitchens, Dawkins, etc. If you're a socialist, people assume you admire Chomsky. I can't stand the lot of them because I'm more than capable of thinking for myself ta very much! I have a couple of very close friends who share my views, but who insist upon quoting these 'great thinkers', which to my mind, totally defeats the object of thinking for yourself.
I could disagree and say that it is possible and easy to imagine to actually think for oneself and follow Chomsky, Hitchens and Dawkins. Not that I agree with all but with the essence, many independent thinkers do. You don''t have to be a socialist at all to agree with Chomsky, nor be a non-socialist and disagree with him (me). Or be a linguist and disagree with his simplistic generative grammar theory (me).

To assume that people agree or disagree is as wrong and lazy, actually, as the nature of all assumptions.
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  #1434  
Old 04.10.2017, 13:21
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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The way I understand things, that would require recognising Islam as an official religion, on par with the two Christian denominations. This in turn requires a responsible and governing body on the religion's side. However, denominations that don't partake in that governing body are still outside and unregulated. Similar to the evangelists on the Christian side for example.
I didn't say the state should sponsor or micromanage the training. The Islamic communities could set up their own training courses just as many Christian denominations train their own ministers without drawing on state support or institutions, and thus without running the risk of being accused of bowing to the state's ideology in return for those 12 miserly pieces of silver. Just by virtue of having people who grew up here and who are familiar with local culture etc would make them more Swiss in their teachings and outlook. I'm sure there are plenty of young people who grew up here who take an interest in Islamic theology and would like to bceome preachers. If the only route open to them is to go to some dodgy country to be trained, that's not good. If they furthermore need to learn some foreign language first, that may dissuade them and hence you get a shortage of good and local preachers and need to start importing dodgy ones.

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However, this may be asking too much after banning one the religion's most showy symbols, the minaret. Which believeing Christian would once churchtowers got banned?
You could also use this as a bargaining chip. If you get your house in order we'll give you back your burkas and minarets and things.

Admittedly, I'm not truly comfortable with that, as it amounts to blackmail. But just as a thought.
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  #1435  
Old 05.10.2017, 21:59
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Come on, 'fess up. Who in Regensdorf doesn't know their flags..?

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A man was reportedly asked if he was an Islamic State sympathiser after his neighbours mistook a Jack Daniel's flag for the black-and-white terrorist insignia.

[...]

...the unnamed Italian man plans to sue whoever wrote the letter for damaging his reputation – libel, in English.


I guess he should be looking for an English speaking, short-sighted, tee-totaller...
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  #1436  
Old 05.10.2017, 22:06
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I didn't say the state should sponsor or micromanage the training. The Islamic communities could set up their own training courses just as many Christian denominations train their own ministers without drawing on state support or institutions, and thus without running the risk of being accused of bowing to the state's ideology in return for those 12 miserly pieces of silver. Just by virtue of having people who grew up here and who are familiar with local culture etc would make them more Swiss in their teachings and outlook. I'm sure there are plenty of young people who grew up here who take an interest in Islamic theology and would like to bceome preachers. If the only route open to them is to go to some dodgy country to be trained, that's not good. If they furthermore need to learn some foreign language first, that may dissuade them and hence you get a shortage of good and local preachers and need to start importing dodgy ones.

You could also use this as a bargaining chip. If you get your house in order we'll give you back your burkas and minarets and things.

Admittedly, I'm not truly comfortable with that, as it amounts to blackmail. But just as a thought.
You are proposing to unilaterally reverse the conclusions of Swiss referendums without any second vote
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  #1437  
Old 06.10.2017, 08:55
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Come on, 'fess up. Who in Regensdorf doesn't know their flags..?





I guess he should be looking for an English speaking, short-sighted, tee-totaller...
"“First the Italian flag and now the black flag of death. Are you an IS sympathizer?""

http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/20...neighbors.html

Sure look the same to me!





Tom
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  #1438  
Old 06.10.2017, 09:02
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I guess he should be looking for an English speaking, short-sighted, tee-totaller...
German speaker:



http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/sto...Fahne-29896945

Tom
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  #1439  
Old 06.10.2017, 13:11
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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You are proposing to unilaterally reverse the conclusions of Swiss referendums without any second vote
Now where did I say that?
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  #1440  
Old 06.10.2017, 14:39
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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"“First the Italian flag and now the black flag of death. Are you an IS sympathizer?""

http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/20...neighbors.html

Sure look the same to me!





Tom
Apropos of nothing, despite being in the Zürich urban area, Regensdorf is dominated by the SVP.

Just sayin'
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