Not all religions kill and harm people in the name of their religion on such a regular basis.
Intelligence agencies are arresting terror cells all the time and are the thin line preventing more regular attacks.
I fear and hate any ideology whose ambition is to control me under its twisted ideas.

Btw, it’s you who mentioned Muslims, not me.

The whole of Islam is the question here, and you lump it all together. Of course there are small numbers of extremists, who want to harm secular western society and they are backwards. The point is you are lumping the whole religion as one big conspiratorial thing plotting the demise of Western civilisation. Which is neither helpful nor true.

Also if you viewed every single police intervention as something other then political propaganda to facilitate more surveillance on our society then good for you. I am sure they do stop the odd attack, they often arrest the wrong people, and quite often they fail entirely and something tragic happens. Just don't think they are as successful as they make out, its more likely that the threat is less than we are being led to believe.

What? Sorry? Whats this thread about? Were you talking about penguins? That has to be the dumbest response you've ever had, and btw, thats not saying much.

Um, actually it is.

Um actually its not.

Uh, yeah. The entire point of the religion is to establish a world-wide caliphate.

Just because the overwhelming majority of Muslims can't be arsed with such a big goal, having work to do and families to raise, doesn't mean it isn't true.

You might want to start with the Koran and Hadith. Maybe read a bit about the life of Mohammed and, uh, I dunno, maybe the entire history of the last millennium and a half...

Islam, as an everlasting divine message, aims in its call at reforming humanity and preserving life's order through understanding the central message of the religion i.e., the unity of Allah and man's servitude to Him.
Islam has undertaken the responsibility of cultural construction, the building of the order of life, beginning with the principle of liberating man from servitude to tyranny and instinctual desires, and realizing his servitude to Allah.

Nothing to do with establishing a world-wide caliphate unless you have a credible source?

Perhaps if you credited your sources, rather than pretending you wrote the words yourself, I might be bothered.

Or then again, maybe not.

If you can't distinguish Islam from Muslims then there's no helping you.

Critiquing Islam should be done as strongly and as harshly as possible. Individual Muslims however should be judged on their actions and words.

No intention of patronising Capo seeing as I remember him mentioning studying for his Masters in the US. However, even Einstein would have had gaps in his general knowledge.

The Crusades were in Eastern Europe 1096 – 1291, therefore, not "most of Europe" and not "over a thousand years ago". Simultaneously to the Crusades, Nasrid emir Mohammed ben Al-Ahmar, the Emirate of Granada, was rebuilding the Alhambra Palace [/QUOTE]

Loz however you were criticising Muslims not just Islam. And DB all religions claim to be the one true religion. I get more Christian God botherers at my door then I do Islamic ones, actually I have never had an Islamic one, but that is beside the point. As you are obviously a Scholar in all things Islam! I have barely read the Bible so I can't really claim to know anything.

If you read to the bottom of my post

"It is naive to assume my posts are my own work"

You made the same mistake before!

Your reply is a non sequitur. We're not talking about "all religions claiming to be the one true one" (which is a false assertion, anyway). We're talking about your insistence that the whole point of Islam isn't to bring down "Western civilisation", when, indeed, that's the exact whole point.

Since you want to compare Islam to Christianity, let's look at the founders: Mohammed established an Islamic state. Jesus was killed by the state. The consequence? A Christian state is a heretical notion, whereas an Islamic state is entirely in keeping with the intentions and actions of Mohammed. Christians were instructed to go out and tell everyone the Good News (hence the god-botherers on your doorstep), but they were not instructed to go and set up an actual state like Mohammed actually did in his actual own lifetime. Christians are supposed to wait for Jesus to organise that when He returns.

In the quote that Marton pilfered from somewhere off the internet, it says:

"Islam has undertaken the responsibility of cultural construction, the building of the order of life"

Do you understand what that means? It means that Islam is all about building an entirely new culture, an entirely new order. It always was. That's what Mohammed's entire mission was about. That's what the Arab conquest of North Africa and Persia and the Levant was all about. It wasn't about preserving the old ways - it was about destroying the old ways and replacing them with something new.

Now, whether the "something new" is a good thing or not is an entirely different argument (hint: a thousand years ago, it generally was. Nowadays, not so much). Whether most Muslims are engaged in the struggle to establish "something new" across the world is also a different argument (hint: they're not). But to deny that the entire bleedin point of Islam isn't to take over the world and establish a new Islamic order suggests that you learnt everything you know about Islam from a quick guide in a sidebar of the Guardian.

can't be bothered to argue with you DB you obviously are a powerhouse of knowledge with way too much time on an overcast saturday morning but keep going it'll give me something to mull over a coffee when I get off the tram x

Overcast? Brilliant sunshine here. Just got back from a walk in the snow.

That's your error right there. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not another facts denier but just ignorant in this matter.

Islam is an ideology defined by what's written in the Quran and by the examples of the prophet Muhammad. It was never reformed nor challenged by its followers or preachers. The Bible do have a few extreme passages but not even the Pope follow these passages. Islam by itself is extremist and a sizable part of Muslims do agree that what quran requests them to do should be carried out.

Please, educate yourself before you come up with such shallow arguments. A good starting point here.

Perfectly summed up.

The day you have a Muslim at your door you must carefully think about what you are gonna say

How about "come in and drink a coffee"?

Quoting random passages from the Koran completely out of their context is no basis for education

Based on such superficial arguments you could also claim that burning 40,000 alleged witches is a reasonable argument against Christianity.

Source