Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1541  
Old 06.01.2018, 11:00
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Yeah right. Same old arguments ad infitum. All religions are full of extremist ideology. If there was such a huge threat from ex ISIS fighters why are there not many more regular attacks on our society? Most of the attacks have been committed by radicalised individuals or small groups that have never even been to the M.E. Maybe you should blame Tim Berners-Lee for facilitating the mechanisms to spread extremism.

Also you go lumping all Muslims under the same old tired extremist label, when its obviously not the case.

I understand the dislike of religion, and the arguments against religion in general, being an Atheist myself. What I cant understand is your fear and hatred, it makes you equally as extreme as the people you try to oppose.
Not all religions kill and harm people in the name of their religion on such a regular basis.
Intelligence agencies are arresting terror cells all the time and are the thin line preventing more regular attacks.
I fear and hate any ideology whose ambition is to control me under its twisted ideas.

Btw, it’s you who mentioned Muslims, not me.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1542  
Old 06.01.2018, 11:14
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,263
Groaned at 183 Times in 131 Posts
Thanked 2,771 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Not all religions kill and harm people in the name of their religion on such a regular basis.
Intelligence agencies are arresting terror cells all the time and are the thin line preventing more regular attacks.
I fear and hate any ideology whose ambition is to control me under its twisted ideas.
The whole of Islam is the question here, and you lump it all together. Of course there are small numbers of extremists, who want to harm secular western society and they are backwards. The point is you are lumping the whole religion as one big conspiratorial thing plotting the demise of Western civilisation. Which is neither helpful nor true.

Also if you viewed every single police intervention as something other then political propaganda to facilitate more surveillance on our society then good for you. I am sure they do stop the odd attack, they often arrest the wrong people, and quite often they fail entirely and something tragic happens. Just don't think they are as successful as they make out, its more likely that the threat is less than we are being led to believe.

Quote:
View Post
Btw, it’s you who mentioned Muslims, not me.
What? Sorry? Whats this thread about? Were you talking about penguins? That has to be the dumbest response you've ever had, and btw, thats not saying much.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TobiasM for this useful post:
  #1543  
Old 06.01.2018, 11:54
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
The point is you are lumping the whole religion as one big conspiratorial thing plotting the demise of Western civilisation. Which is neither helpful nor true.
Um, actually it is.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #1544  
Old 06.01.2018, 12:00
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,263
Groaned at 183 Times in 131 Posts
Thanked 2,771 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
Um, actually it is.
Um actually its not.
Reply With Quote
  #1545  
Old 06.01.2018, 12:10
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Um actually its not.
Uh, yeah. The entire point of the religion is to establish a world-wide caliphate.

Just because the overwhelming majority of Muslims can't be arsed with such a big goal, having work to do and families to raise, doesn't mean it isn't true.

You might want to start with the Koran and Hadith. Maybe read a bit about the life of Mohammed and, uh, I dunno, maybe the entire history of the last millennium and a half...
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #1546  
Old 06.01.2018, 12:35
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,857
Groaned at 434 Times in 375 Posts
Thanked 18,190 Times in 9,674 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
Uh, yeah. The entire point of the religion is to establish a world-wide caliphate.

Just because the overwhelming majority of Muslims can't be arsed with such a big goal, having work to do and families to raise, doesn't mean it isn't true.

You might want to start with the Koran and Hadith. Maybe read a bit about the life of Mohammed and, uh, I dunno, maybe the entire history of the last millennium and a half...
Islam, as an everlasting divine message, aims in its call at reforming humanity and preserving life's order through understanding the central message of the religion i.e., the unity of Allah and man's servitude to Him.
Islam has undertaken the responsibility of cultural construction, the building of the order of life, beginning with the principle of liberating man from servitude to tyranny and instinctual desires, and realizing his servitude to Allah.

Nothing to do with establishing a world-wide caliphate unless you have a credible source?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #1547  
Old 06.01.2018, 12:37
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Islam, as an everlasting divine message, aims in its call at reforming humanity and preserving life's order through understanding the central message of the religion i.e., the unity of Allah and man's servitude to Him.
Islam has undertaken the responsibility of cultural construction, the building of the order of life, beginning with the principle of liberating man from servitude to tyranny and instinctual desires, and realizing his servitude to Allah.

Nothing to do with establishing a world-wide caliphate unless you have a credible source?
Perhaps if you credited your sources, rather than pretending you wrote the words yourself, I might be bothered.

Or then again, maybe not.
Reply With Quote
  #1548  
Old 06.01.2018, 12:38
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
The whole of Islam is the question here, and you lump it all together. Of course there are small numbers of extremists, who want to harm secular western society and they are backwards. The point is you are lumping the whole religion as one big conspiratorial thing plotting the demise of Western civilisation. Which is neither helpful nor true.

Also if you viewed every single police intervention as something other then political propaganda to facilitate more surveillance on our society then good for you. I am sure they do stop the odd attack, they often arrest the wrong people, and quite often they fail entirely and something tragic happens. Just don't think they are as successful as they make out, its more likely that the threat is less than we are being led to believe.



What? Sorry? Whats this thread about? Were you talking about penguins? That has to be the dumbest response you've ever had, and btw, thats not saying much.
If you can't distinguish Islam from Muslims then there's no helping you.

Critiquing Islam should be done as strongly and as harshly as possible. Individual Muslims however should be judged on their actions and words.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1549  
Old 06.01.2018, 13:16
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,889
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 10,610 Times in 4,679 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
If we're going to be patronising to Capo,
No intention of patronising Capo seeing as I remember him mentioning studying for his Masters in the US. However, even Einstein would have had gaps in his general knowledge.

Quote:
View Post
...perhaps we should include the bit where Islam was eliminated from most of Europe over a thousand years ago.
The Crusades were in Eastern Europe 1096 – 1291, therefore, not "most of Europe" and not "over a thousand years ago". Simultaneously to the Crusades, Nasrid emir Mohammed ben Al-Ahmar, the Emirate of Granada, was rebuilding the Alhambra Palace [/QUOTE]
Reply With Quote
  #1550  
Old 06.01.2018, 13:54
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,263
Groaned at 183 Times in 131 Posts
Thanked 2,771 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
If you can't distinguish Islam from Muslims then there's no helping you.

Critiquing Islam should be done as strongly and as harshly as possible. Individual Muslims however should be judged on their actions and words.
Loz however you were criticising Muslims not just Islam. And DB all religions claim to be the one true religion. I get more Christian God botherers at my door then I do Islamic ones, actually I have never had an Islamic one, but that is beside the point. As you are obviously a Scholar in all things Islam! I have barely read the Bible so I can't really claim to know anything.
Reply With Quote
  #1551  
Old 06.01.2018, 13:58
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,857
Groaned at 434 Times in 375 Posts
Thanked 18,190 Times in 9,674 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
Perhaps if you credited your sources, rather than pretending you wrote the words yourself, I might be bothered.

Or then again, maybe not.
If you read to the bottom of my post

"It is naive to assume my posts are my own work"

You made the same mistake before!
Reply With Quote
  #1552  
Old 06.01.2018, 14:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
And DB all religions claim to be the one true religion. I get more Christian God botherers at my door then I do Islamic ones, actually I have never had an Islamic one, but that is beside the point. As you are obviously a Scholar in all things Islam! I have barely read the Bible so I can't really claim to know anything.
Your reply is a non sequitur. We're not talking about "all religions claiming to be the one true one" (which is a false assertion, anyway). We're talking about your insistence that the whole point of Islam isn't to bring down "Western civilisation", when, indeed, that's the exact whole point.

Since you want to compare Islam to Christianity, let's look at the founders: Mohammed established an Islamic state. Jesus was killed by the state. The consequence? A Christian state is a heretical notion, whereas an Islamic state is entirely in keeping with the intentions and actions of Mohammed. Christians were instructed to go out and tell everyone the Good News (hence the god-botherers on your doorstep), but they were not instructed to go and set up an actual state like Mohammed actually did in his actual own lifetime. Christians are supposed to wait for Jesus to organise that when He returns.

In the quote that Marton pilfered from somewhere off the internet, it says:

"Islam has undertaken the responsibility of cultural construction, the building of the order of life"

Do you understand what that means? It means that Islam is all about building an entirely new culture, an entirely new order. It always was. That's what Mohammed's entire mission was about. That's what the Arab conquest of North Africa and Persia and the Levant was all about. It wasn't about preserving the old ways - it was about destroying the old ways and replacing them with something new.

Now, whether the "something new" is a good thing or not is an entirely different argument (hint: a thousand years ago, it generally was. Nowadays, not so much). Whether most Muslims are engaged in the struggle to establish "something new" across the world is also a different argument (hint: they're not). But to deny that the entire bleedin point of Islam isn't to take over the world and establish a new Islamic order suggests that you learnt everything you know about Islam from a quick guide in a sidebar of the Guardian.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1553  
Old 06.01.2018, 15:00
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,263
Groaned at 183 Times in 131 Posts
Thanked 2,771 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

can't be bothered to argue with you DB you obviously are a powerhouse of knowledge with way too much time on an overcast saturday morning but keep going it'll give me something to mull over a coffee when I get off the tram x

Quote:
Your reply is a non sequitur. We're not talking about "all religions claiming to be the one true one" (which is a false assertion, anyway). We're talking about your insistence that the whole point of Islam isn't to bring down "Western civilisation", when, indeed, that's the exact whole point.

Since you want to compare Islam to Christianity, let's look at the founders: Mohammed established an Islamic state. Jesus was killed by the state. The consequence? A Christian state is a heretical notion, whereas an Islamic state is entirely in keeping with the intentions and actions of Mohammed. Christians were instructed to go out and tell everyone the Good News (hence the god-botherers on your doorstep), but they were not instructed to go and set up an actual state like Mohammed actually did in his actual own lifetime. Christians are supposed to wait for Jesus to organise that when He returns.

In the quote that Marton pilfered from somewhere off the internet, it says:

"Islam has undertaken the responsibility of cultural construction, the building of the order of life"

Do you understand what that means? It means that Islam is all about building an entirely new culture, an entirely new order. It always was. That's what Mohammed's entire mission was about. That's what the Arab conquest of North Africa and Persia and the Levant was all about. It wasn't about preserving the old ways - it was about destroying the old ways and replacing them with something new.

Now, whether the "something new" is a good thing or not is an entirely different argument (hint: a thousand years ago, it generally was. Nowadays, not so much). Whether most Muslims are engaged in the struggle to establish "something new" across the world is also a different argument (hint: they're not). But to deny that the entire bleedin point of Islam isn't to take over the world and establish a new Islamic order suggests that you learnt everything you know about Islam from a quick guide in a sidebar of the Guardian.
Reply With Quote
  #1554  
Old 06.01.2018, 15:12
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
can't be bothered to argue with you DB you obviously are a powerhouse of knowledge with way too much time on an overcast saturday morning but keep going it'll give me something to mull over a coffee when I get off the tram x
Overcast? Brilliant sunshine here. Just got back from a walk in the snow.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #1555  
Old 07.01.2018, 01:35
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,380
Groaned at 282 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 1,115 Times in 636 Posts
Capo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthy
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Yeah right. Same old arguments ad infitum. All religions are full of extremist ideology. If there was such a huge threat from ex ISIS fighters why are there not many more regular attacks on our society? Most of the attacks have been committed by radicalised individuals or small groups that have never even been to the M.E. Maybe you should blame Tim Berners-Lee for facilitating the mechanisms to spread extremism.

Also you go lumping all Muslims under the same old tired extremist label, when its obviously not the case.

I understand the dislike of religion, and the arguments against religion in general, being an Atheist myself. What I cant understand is your fear and hatred, it makes you equally as extreme as the people you try to oppose.
That's your error right there. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are not another facts denier but just ignorant in this matter.

Islam is an ideology defined by what's written in the Quran and by the examples of the prophet Muhammad. It was never reformed nor challenged by its followers or preachers. The Bible do have a few extreme passages but not even the Pope follow these passages. Islam by itself is extremist and a sizable part of Muslims do agree that what quran requests them to do should be carried out.
Reply With Quote
  #1556  
Old 07.01.2018, 01:42
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,380
Groaned at 282 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 1,115 Times in 636 Posts
Capo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthy
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
The whole of Islam is the question here, and you lump it all together. Of course there are small numbers of extremists, who want to harm secular western society and they are backwards. The point is you are lumping the whole religion as one big conspiratorial thing plotting the demise of Western civilisation. Which is neither helpful nor true.
Please, educate yourself before you come up with such shallow arguments. A good starting point here.
Reply With Quote
  #1557  
Old 07.01.2018, 01:44
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,380
Groaned at 282 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 1,115 Times in 636 Posts
Capo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthy
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
Uh, yeah. The entire point of the religion is to establish a world-wide caliphate.

Just because the overwhelming majority of Muslims can't be arsed with such a big goal, having work to do and families to raise, doesn't mean it isn't true.

You might want to start with the Koran and Hadith. Maybe read a bit about the life of Mohammed and, uh, I dunno, maybe the entire history of the last millennium and a half...
Perfectly summed up.
Reply With Quote
  #1558  
Old 07.01.2018, 01:50
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,380
Groaned at 282 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 1,115 Times in 636 Posts
Capo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthy
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Loz however you were criticising Muslims not just Islam. And DB all religions claim to be the one true religion. I get more Christian God botherers at my door then I do Islamic ones, actually I have never had an Islamic one, but that is beside the point. As you are obviously a Scholar in all things Islam! I have barely read the Bible so I can't really claim to know anything.
The day you have a Muslim at your door you must carefully think about what you are gonna say
Reply With Quote
  #1559  
Old 07.01.2018, 03:06
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,857
Groaned at 434 Times in 375 Posts
Thanked 18,190 Times in 9,674 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
The day you have a Muslim at your door you must carefully think about what you are gonna say
How about "come in and drink a coffee"?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #1560  
Old 07.01.2018, 03:18
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,857
Groaned at 434 Times in 375 Posts
Thanked 18,190 Times in 9,674 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Please, educate yourself before you come up with such shallow arguments. A good starting point here.
Quoting random passages from the Koran completely out of their context is no basis for education

Based on such superficial arguments you could also claim that burning 40,000 alleged witches is a reasonable argument against Christianity.

Source
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank marton for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will borders with CH be affected after terrorist attacks? McTAVGE Daily life 19 15.11.2015 18:14
The All Muslims are evil thread bigblue2 General off-topic 4 27.08.2010 15:46
Confused about coverage in rest of Europe on Swiss Health Insurance Wingnut Insurance 8 15.12.2008 09:20


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:39.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0