Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1561  
Old 07.01.2018, 03:20
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,749
Groaned at 430 Times in 371 Posts
Thanked 17,862 Times in 9,529 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Perfectly summed up.
But completely without any reference to credible sources
Reply With Quote
  #1562  
Old 07.01.2018, 03:27
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,749
Groaned at 430 Times in 371 Posts
Thanked 17,862 Times in 9,529 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
Your reply is a non sequitur. We're not talking about "all religions claiming to be the one true one" (which is a false assertion, anyway). We're talking about your insistence that the whole point of Islam isn't to bring down "Western civilisation", when, indeed, that's the exact whole point.

Since you want to compare Islam to Christianity, let's look at the founders: Mohammed established an Islamic state. Jesus was killed by the state. The consequence? A Christian state is a heretical notion, whereas an Islamic state is entirely in keeping with the intentions and actions of Mohammed. Christians were instructed to go out and tell everyone the Good News (hence the god-botherers on your doorstep), but they were not instructed to go and set up an actual state like Mohammed actually did in his actual own lifetime. Christians are supposed to wait for Jesus to organise that when He returns.

In the quote that Marton pilfered from somewhere off the internet, it says:

"Islam has undertaken the responsibility of cultural construction, the building of the order of life"

Do you understand what that means? It means that Islam is all about building an entirely new culture, an entirely new order. It always was. That's what Mohammed's entire mission was about. That's what the Arab conquest of North Africa and Persia and the Levant was all about. It wasn't about preserving the old ways - it was about destroying the old ways and replacing them with something new.

Now, whether the "something new" is a good thing or not is an entirely different argument (hint: a thousand years ago, it generally was. Nowadays, not so much). Whether most Muslims are engaged in the struggle to establish "something new" across the world is also a different argument (hint: they're not). But to deny that the entire bleedin point of Islam isn't to take over the world and establish a new Islamic order suggests that you learnt everything you know about Islam from a quick guide in a sidebar of the Guardian.
"the whole point of Islam isn't to bring down "Western civilisation", when, indeed, that's the exact whole point."

Very perceptive of Islam since it started long before there was any Western civilisation to bring down. What nonsense you write!

"the entire bleeding point of Islam is to take over the world" completely without any credible sources

"In the quote that Marton pilfered from somewhere off the internet" complete hypocrisy when you never attempt to provide any sources yourself for your own fantasies
Of course we believe every word you write
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
This user groans at marton for this post:
  #1563  
Old 07.01.2018, 08:14
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,380
Groaned at 282 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 1,115 Times in 636 Posts
Capo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthyCapo is considered unworthy
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Quoting random passages from the Koran completely out of their context is no basis for education

Based on such superficial arguments you could also claim that burning 40,000 alleged witches is a reasonable argument against Christianity.

Source
From your own source:

The great age of witch trials, which ran between 1550 and 1700...

Islam is stuck 500 years in the past. Please, stop denying facts!

Do you want a definitive source? Here it is.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at Capo for this post:
  #1564  
Old 07.01.2018, 08:19
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
From your own source:

The great age of witch trials, which ran between 1550 and 1700...

Islam is stuck 500 years in the past. Please, stop denying facts!

Do you want a definitive source? Here it is.
I suspect a more relevant source might be this:

Quote:
View Post
Oh, another roundAttachment 131430
Reply With Quote
  #1565  
Old 07.01.2018, 09:39
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,263
Groaned at 183 Times in 131 Posts
Thanked 2,771 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
"the whole point of Islam isn't to bring down "Western civilisation", when, indeed, that's the exact whole point."

Very perceptive of Islam since it started long before there was any Western civilisation to bring down. What nonsense you write!

"the entire bleeding point of Islam is to take over the world" completely without any credible sources

"In the quote that Marton pilfered from somewhere off the internet" complete hypocrisy when you never attempt to provide any sources yourself for your own fantasies
Of course we believe every word you write
I never took DB to be a fear monger. But, hey ho. The teachings of most old books are usually not applicable in the modern world and while I am not going to defend or denounce any particular religion, I think you'll find that the majority of people are not that literal about the teachings contained. However you will find an orthodox, fundamental and devout proportion that will take the teachings literally. These beliefs are not confined to the Quran, but are found in all religious texts. A whopping example is the American Conservative Right that repeatedly refers to parts of the Bible to counter giving equal rights to LGBTQ people. These are supposed to be modern educated people living in a Western society. My point is DB that even if the Quran has bits in it about creating a global Caliphate, and having the world follow the teachings of Mohammed and Islam (you could post the exact exerts of the texts here, although I am not that interested.) The majority of Muslims just want to worship for themselves and are not on a mission to create a global Caliphate. Now I won't say I personally agree with most teachings of most religions, I am an Atheist, I have a background in Science, but I am not going to be as extreme as Dawkins who sits at the other end of the spectrum. Its a world where some people need to believe in something more then others to give meaning and purpose to existence. Islam is just one of those mechanisms. The majority are not out on the streets of Pakistan burning American flags, nor are they plotting to overthrow the West with Islamic culture. Its a minority that stoke fear and resentment and that is applicable on both sides of the debate.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank TobiasM for this useful post:
  #1566  
Old 07.01.2018, 09:53
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
I never took DB to be a fear monger. But, hey ho. The teachings of most old books are usually not applicable in the modern world and while I am not going to defend or denounce any particular religion, I think you'll find that the majority of people are not that literal about the teachings contained. However you will find an orthodox, fundamental and devout proportion that will take the teachings literally. These beliefs are not confined to the Quran, but are found in all religious texts. A whopping example is the American Conservative Right that repeatedly refers to parts of the Bible to counter giving equal rights to LGBTQ people. These are supposed to be modern educated people living in a Western society. My point is DB that even if the Quran has bits in it about creating a global Caliphate, and having the world follow the teachings of Mohammed and Islam (you could post the exact exerts of the texts here, although I am not that interested.) The majority of Muslims just want to worship for themselves and are not on a mission to create a global Caliphate. Now I won't say I personally agree with most teachings of most religions, I am an Atheist, I have a background in Science, but I am not going to be as extreme as Dawkins who sits at the other end of the spectrum. Its a world where some people need to believe in something more then others to give meaning and purpose to existence. Islam is just one of those mechanisms. The majority are not out on the streets of Pakistan burning American flags, nor are they plotting to overthrow the West with Islamic culture. Its a minority that stoke fear and resentment and that is applicable on both sides of the debate.
Reading comprehension skills 0/10

Never mind. At least ignorance has a cure.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #1567  
Old 07.01.2018, 10:09
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,749
Groaned at 430 Times in 371 Posts
Thanked 17,862 Times in 9,529 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
Reading comprehension skills 0/10

Never mind. At least ignorance has a cure.
Indeed.

Here you can read the Koran in English.

Guess what? The word Caliphate does not exist
Reply With Quote
  #1568  
Old 07.01.2018, 10:16
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Lol. Have a nice Sunday.
Reply With Quote
  #1569  
Old 07.01.2018, 12:18
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 9,002
Groaned at 283 Times in 224 Posts
Thanked 19,047 Times in 7,530 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Indeed.

Here you can read the Koran in English.

Guess what? The word Caliphate does not exist
Using your argument, the word "Koran" doesn't exist either.

Don't take this post as evidence that I agree with DB, though.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #1570  
Old 07.01.2018, 12:35
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,749
Groaned at 430 Times in 371 Posts
Thanked 17,862 Times in 9,529 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
Using your argument, the word "Koran" doesn't exist either.

Don't take this post as evidence that I agree with DB, though.
I must have linked to the wrong Holy Book.
Reply With Quote
  #1571  
Old 07.01.2018, 12:39
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: -
Posts: 247
Groaned at 141 Times in 99 Posts
Thanked 2,085 Times in 996 Posts
kriss kross has earned some respectkriss kross has earned some respect
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

I like the argument that all religions are equally bad/wrong/troublesome.

I can agree that they're all arguably 'bad', but the idea that they are all exactly equal, that they have the same number/percentage of extremists and that they all currently pose an equal threat to the world is a liberal cop out.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank kriss kross for this useful post:
  #1572  
Old 07.01.2018, 13:07
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,749
Groaned at 430 Times in 371 Posts
Thanked 17,862 Times in 9,529 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
I suspect a more relevant source might be this:



Great evening, the only downer was walking home a Km in darkness as here they turn off the street lights at 1am
Reply With Quote
  #1573  
Old 07.01.2018, 13:13
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,749
Groaned at 430 Times in 371 Posts
Thanked 17,862 Times in 9,529 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
From your own source:

The great age of witch trials, which ran between 1550 and 1700...

Islam is stuck 500 years in the past. Please, stop denying facts!

Do you want a definitive source? Here it is.
Religious scholars study the Koran for many years to understand it, I will let you know when I have enough time available

It is only 250 pages
Reply With Quote
  #1574  
Old 07.01.2018, 15:14
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,263
Groaned at 183 Times in 131 Posts
Thanked 2,771 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
Reading comprehension skills 0/10

Never mind. At least ignorance has a cure.
I read your posts DB, I do know what you are trying to say. The thing is regardless of what you are claiming to be the mission statement of Islam, it is intrinsically the same in most religions, i.e. trying to attract more followers into the flock/herd or whatever, to believe in that one true god as all others must be wrong and so nonbelievers will burn perish or not be saved in the afterlife or whatever bad ending is promised by any particular belief. I am merely pointing out that most Muslims or followers of Islam most probably do not aim to bring down Western society, and attributing a few horrendous terrorist acts and a few criminal/sexual predators to the whole religion and its followers can very well be considered xenophobia.

There, there, Kriss Kross, take yer meds and settle down.
Reply With Quote
  #1575  
Old 07.01.2018, 15:23
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
I read your posts DB, I do know what you are trying to say. The thing is regardless of what you are claiming to be the mission statement of Islam, it is intrinsically the same in most religions, i.e. trying to attract more followers into the flock/herd or whatever, to believe in that one true god as all others must be wrong and so nonbelievers will burn perish or not be saved in the afterlife or whatever bad ending is promised by any particular belief. I am merely pointing out that most Muslims or followers of Islam most probably do not aim to bring down Western society, and attributing a few horrendous terrorist acts and a few criminal/sexual predators to the whole religion and its followers can very well be considered xenophobia.

There, there, Kriss Kross, take yer meds and settle down.
You don't seem to know much about the religions of the world, let alone Islam, if you really believe that.

Go and get educated, then we can talk. Until then, I'm just wasting my time.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #1576  
Old 07.01.2018, 15:33
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
I can agree that they're all arguably 'bad', but the idea that they are all exactly equal, that they have the same number/percentage of extremists and that they all currently pose an equal threat to the world is a liberal cop out.
The best source of information about Islam is an honest muslim, not a dishonest liberal.
Reply With Quote
  #1577  
Old 07.01.2018, 15:37
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 9,002
Groaned at 283 Times in 224 Posts
Thanked 19,047 Times in 7,530 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
The best source of information about Islam is an honest muslim, not a dishonest liberal.
Ah, so now Muslims can't be liberal? Or is "liberal" a new religion that I hadn't heard of till now?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #1578  
Old 07.01.2018, 15:39
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 9,002
Groaned at 283 Times in 224 Posts
Thanked 19,047 Times in 7,530 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
I must have linked to the wrong Holy Book.
No, your book link was fine. It links to the Quran, an alternative spelling of "Koran", in much the same way as many synonyms and euphemisms exist for the word "caliphate".
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #1579  
Old 07.01.2018, 16:02
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,663
Groaned at 2,103 Times in 1,570 Posts
Thanked 35,444 Times in 16,813 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
View Post
A whopping example is some members of the American Conservative Right that repeatedly refers to parts of the Bible to counter giving equal rights to LGBTQ people.
FTFY.

I know plenty of the "American Conservative Right" who aren't into Jesus or the bible and don't have a problem with LGBTQ people.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #1580  
Old 07.01.2018, 16:11
TobiasM's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Zürich
Posts: 1,263
Groaned at 183 Times in 131 Posts
Thanked 2,771 Times in 1,281 Posts
TobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond reputeTobiasM has a reputation beyond repute
Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Quote:
Go and get educated, then we can talk. Until then, I'm just wasting my time.
Well you can blow your PGCE trumpet mate. For a few posts I thought you might be a tolerable person with a smattering of humour, how wrong I was. I don't claim to know everything. But you seem too be a teeny tiny bit full of yourself. Btw, I have an education and life experience outside of the UK, Switzerland and Europe. Maybe more then yours, maybe less, we may never find out. And yes you and me both are wasting our time bantering on this forum with strangers about subjects that neither of us really know about, but have managed to form such strong opinions on anyway. Still carry on. *doffs cap and steps out*.

ps. I know you'll want to get the last word in, everybody on this crap thread seems to want too. But I don't care. x
Reply With Quote
This user groans at TobiasM for this post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will borders with CH be affected after terrorist attacks? McTAVGE Daily life 19 15.11.2015 18:14
The All Muslims are evil thread bigblue2 General off-topic 4 27.08.2010 15:46
Confused about coverage in rest of Europe on Swiss Health Insurance Wingnut Insurance 8 15.12.2008 09:20


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0