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  #141  
Old 23.11.2015, 11:57
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Which means that 6% wouldn't. That's shit loads! About 150,000 in Britain today by my reckoning.
6% of Muslims who would refuse to grass up their mates?

I bet if it was indigenous Brits or Irish who were interviewed, the figure would be much much higher.
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  #142  
Old 23.11.2015, 12:05
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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6% of Muslims who would refuse to grass up their mates?

I bet if it was indigenous Brits or Irish who were interviewed, the figure would be much much higher.
Perhaps if your name is Seamus. And you're living in 1974. But since killing people for da cause went out of fashion nearly 2 decades ago, I don't think you'd find 4 million people in Britain who wouldn't alert the authorities that their mate was about to shoot up Stamford Bridge with an AK47.
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  #143  
Old 23.11.2015, 12:09
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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6% of Muslims who would refuse to grass up their mates?

I bet if it was indigenous Brits or Irish who were interviewed, the figure would be much much higher.
I think the popularity of Sinn Fein in the South up until post peace process proves you know very little about what you speak in respect of the Irish.... and yes my family have happily fought IRA members over several generations and will continue to do so.
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  #144  
Old 23.11.2015, 12:11
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Perhaps if your name is Seamus. And you're living in 1974. But since killing people for da cause went out of fashion nearly 2 decades ago, I don't think you'd find 4 million people in Britain who wouldn't alert the authorities that their mate was about to shoot up Stamford Bridge with an AK47.
Was that the question in the poll though? I'd be horrified if 6% of Muslim Britons wouldn't report to the police prior knowledge of a mass murder. That is obviously a criminal offence.
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  #145  
Old 23.11.2015, 12:18
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I think the popularity of Sinn Fein in the South up until post peace process proves you know very little about what you speak in respect of the Irish.... and yes my family have happily fought IRA members over several generations and will continue to do so.
I have no idea what your point is here.

I'm saying that not grassing up your mates is an integral part of British and Irish culture.

Are you suggesting that it is?
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  #146  
Old 23.11.2015, 12:19
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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The case is black and white. Nonetheless it seems to me to be entirely possible to have some sympathy with the Hedbo murderers while at the same time rejecting their actions as abhorrent and inconsistent with Islam. E.g. saying "I can understand why they're upset".
But again this is a result of the apalling ignorance of Islam amongst a vast number of Muslims. While within a Muslim must surely resist drawing cartoons of anyone especially the Prophet, there is no such compulsion for non Muslims, even Zimmis. In fact, what are these supposedly good Muslims doing reading Charlie Hebdo or gossipy news sites featuring the covers? Let's build schools across the Islamic world force Western mosques to teach Arabic so that young Muslims can access their holy text directly.
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  #147  
Old 23.11.2015, 12:54
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

this is a must-read piece, so relevant to the topic:

Bashar al-Assad and the Devil’s Endgame
Will the Syrian dictator’s sinister plan to win over America and Russia actually work?


http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...-obama/407635/

Last edited by F16; 23.11.2015 at 13:01. Reason: more info provided
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  #148  
Old 23.11.2015, 13:18
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

The Paris attack caused a humongous upswell of anti-Muslim sentiments. Some say it is as large, if not larger, than the sentiments right after 9/11. The reasons for it are pretty obvious. I agree it is totally unfair to westernised Muslims who have nothing to do with it. But whose fault is it? Who is responsible for addressing it?

There is vehement hate stoked within Muslim communities that cause these things. This isn't isolated in the Middle East. That hate is preached here in Europe, the US, Asia and globally through the Internet. Unfortunately, it is not a simple matter to just get all non-Muslims to agree there is no problem when massacres continue to occur with more frequency, and the casualties are escalating. It needs to be brought to the forefront to be acknowledged, not ignored and buried in the back of people's minds. It really needs to be outed.

Non-muslims are not in very good positions to deal with this. They can't differentiate what one Muslim believes and does from another. So their simplistic reaction is to put them all in one bucket. The effort to counter and eradicate this really needs to be put forth by Muslims themselves. In the same way, I don't think it is effective for Muslims to confront non-Muslim reactions either. Its a natural reaction to being put under threat.

It may take a very long time for this to work itself out. There is a chance it will take a lot more death and destruction. But I'm hopeful it will come to some conclusion some day, but it isn't happening today. Until then, the most anyone can do is to minimise risks and damages through whatever way you can. Sentiments of peace are wonderful. But sentiments alone do not accomplish peace. Sometimes, you have to ensure it.
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  #149  
Old 23.11.2015, 13:52
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I have no idea what your point is here.

I'm saying that not grassing up your mates is an integral part of British and Irish culture.

Are you suggesting that it is?
You referred to a number of 6% who would not alert the authorities - nothing about mates although you tried to skew it that way - which is disingenuous to say the least.

I am telling you that in the case of Irish people - at least in the republic - they firmly rejected - and aggressively so Sinn Fein in the South - to the extent that they had not a single representative in Dail Eireann from 1961 up until the peace process was concluded in 1997 and if you could remove your head from your posterior you would see that Sinn Fein was absolutely riddled with moles....
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  #150  
Old 23.11.2015, 13:54
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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You referred to a number of 6% who would not alert the authorities - nothing about mates although you tried to skew it that way - which is disingenuous to say the least.

I am telling you that in the case of Irish people - at least in the republic - they firmly rejected - and aggressively so Sinn Fein in the South - to the extent that they had not a single representative in Dail Eireann from 1961 up until the peace process was concluded in 1997 and if you could remove your head from your posterior you would see that Sinn Fein was absolutely riddled with moles....
WTF are you talking about? I said nothing about Sinn Fein or any of that bollocks.

You need to sort that chip out, mate. It's making you imagine things.
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  #151  
Old 23.11.2015, 13:59
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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6% of Muslims who would refuse to grass up their mates?

I bet if it was indigenous Brits or Irish who were interviewed, the figure would be much much higher.
This. Are you on the sauce already ???
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  #152  
Old 23.11.2015, 14:00
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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This. Are you on the sauce already ???
I don't drink.

So, basically, you're saying that Brits and Irish are a bunch of grasses, who'd shop their own grandmothers to the rozzers just for lulz.

Glad we've cleared that up. I think you're wrong, but you're clearly the forum's sole expert on all things concerning the United Kingdom, so I guess the thread ends right here.
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  #153  
Old 23.11.2015, 14:02
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I don't drink.

So, basically, you're saying that Brits and Irish are a bunch of grasses, who'd shop their own grandmothers to the rozzers just for lulz.

Glad we've cleared that up. I think you're wrong, but you're clearly the forum's sole expert on all things concerning the British Isles, so I guess the thread ends right here.
If you're grandma is an utter CTNU fond of kneecappin lads then yes.

EDIT and I didn't write anything about Brits or lulz either.
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  #154  
Old 23.11.2015, 14:03
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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If you're grandma is an utter CTNU fond of kneecappin lads then yes.

EDIT and I didn't write anything about Brits or lulz either.
And I didn't write anything about the Republic of Ireland or Sinn Fein, so it looks like we're even.
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  #155  
Old 23.11.2015, 14:05
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I don't drink.

So, basically, you're saying that Brits and Irish are a bunch of grasses, who'd shop their own grandmothers to the rozzers just for lulz.

Glad we've cleared that up. I think you're wrong, but you're clearly the forum's sole expert on all things concerning the United Kingdom, so I guess the thread ends right here.
In the UK grassing is a job. Criminals are professional police informants and get paid to grass, as well as the police turning a blind eye to a bit of dealing here and there or whatever. You wouldn't find people grassing for nothing in return.
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  #156  
Old 23.11.2015, 15:08
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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this is a must-read piece, so relevant to the topic:

Bashar al-Assad and the Devil’s Endgame
Will the Syrian dictator’s sinister plan to win over America and Russia actually work?


http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...-obama/407635/


Why not, Erdogan has already got the whole of the EU bending over the table begging for his help with the refugee problem!
He got away with telling the EU commission head Juncker that he was the ex-president of a country that is smaller than a Turkish town.


What are the demands?
  • 3 billion euro
  • Shengen type visas for 70 million Turks
  • Accelerated EU entry
  • Invitation to all EU summit meetings
  • plus who knows what under the table
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  #157  
Old 23.11.2015, 15:12
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

(forgive my ignorance here if applicable! I am not a follower of organised religion and not keen on it either, but avoid discussing it with people who are because I don't want to upset them! I have openly Muslim, Christian and Hindu friends but I avoid talking about religion with them so I have little understanding of how faithful to the "big-six" people's minds work therefore I have more curiosity I hope to be answered!....

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The Koran was supposedly dictated by an angel to Mohammed. After a time of verbal transmission, it was written down. One book. The scope for lies would be in the history and the laws that God gave.

The Bible comprises 66 or so books of varying nature that are in some way supposedly inspired by God. I.e. people were under the inspiration of God when they wrote the books. The scope for lies would similarly be in the history and the laws. However, not all the books are history or laws and therefore they cannot all be "made up". A poem about the human condition is a poem. A proverb is a proverb. There's no scope for lying.

In the case of Christianity, the books and letters arose after the religion began as a record of what had happened, and useful teachings some people had written to various other believers. These were later compiled into the New Testament from the stories and letters that believer groups were already finding useful and sharing with one another.

Books are useful because they allow the ruling in and ruling out of doctrine. Hence the suppression of gnostic texts.
Thanks for this reply it's really helpful. I'm afraid in my post I only focused on people being untruthful; what about people being delusional? How can we be sure the writers of the Bible and the Qu'ran were of sound mind and were not intoxicated or otherwise inebriated? When something is such a big huge deal to so many people for so many centuries, why is this not questioned?


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Plenty of people who say they've had direct contact with God are believed in the modern age. And plenty of Christians (an people of other faiths) believe that they have direct contact with God - that's what praying is!
Good point about praying. But if someone in 2015 claims that they have had the direct word from God just like Moses, Mohammed etc or claim to be a descendent of God like Jesus, and proclaim that the big books need a new chapter to be added... Who's going to indulge them...
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  #158  
Old 23.11.2015, 17:31
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Ayaan Hirsi Ali thinks Islam needs reform

http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-reform...lam-1426859626

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/aya.../17/id/702597/

Last edited by greenmount; 23.11.2015 at 17:48.
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  #159  
Old 23.11.2015, 18:10
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Ayaan Hirsi Ali thinks Islam needs reform
I don't see how this is possible. The vast majority of Muslims don't or can't acknowledge there is a problem. The jury is still out on whether Jihad effectively helps the spread of Islam, or hinders it. There are many who believe Jihad helps the spread of Islam, and so will tacitly approve it. It would take an awful lot of convincing that Jihad hurts Islam before Muslims shelve the idea. I think a clear and utter failure of Jihad is the only thing that would convince them of it, if anything at all. Some take the results to date as indications of Jihad's success.
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Old 23.11.2015, 18:32
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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...what about people being delusional? How can we be sure the writers of the Bible and the Qu'ran were of sound mind and were not intoxicated or otherwise inebriated? When something is such a big huge deal to so many people for so many centuries, why is this not questioned?
What makes you think it isn't? Christianity went through many reforms and the books of the Bible have been critically assessed many times by many people from a huge number of different perspectives. Maybe you should educate yourself. Read a few of the books. Do some study on critical methods (form, redaction...).

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But if someone in 2015 claims that they have had the direct word from God just like Moses, Mohammed etc or claim to be a descendent of God like Jesus, and proclaim that the big books need a new chapter to be added... Who's going to indulge them...
Californians.
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