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Old 07.01.2018, 15:15
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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No, your book link was fine. It links to the Quran, an alternative spelling of "Koran", in much the same way as many synonyms and euphemisms exist for the word "caliphate".
There are indeed alternative spellings of "Koran" however not so easy to find synonyms and euphemisms for the word "caliphate"
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Old 07.01.2018, 15:24
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Well you can blow your PGCE trumpet mate. For a few posts I thought you might be a tolerable person with a smattering of humour, how wrong I was. I don't claim to know everything. But you seem too be a teeny tiny bit full of yourself. Btw, I have an education and life experience outside of the UK, Switzerland and Europe. Maybe more then yours, maybe less, we may never find out. And yes you and me both are wasting our time bantering on this forum with strangers about subjects that neither of us really know about, but have managed to form such strong opinions on anyway. Still carry on. *doffs cap and steps out*.

ps. I know you'll want to get the last word in, everybody on this crap thread seems to want too. But I don't care. x
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  #1583  
Old 07.01.2018, 15:30
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Ah, so now Muslims can't be liberal? Or is "liberal" a new religion that I hadn't heard of till now?
I like getting the last word in too.

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ps. I know you'll want to get the last word in, everybody on this crap thread seems to want too. But I don't care. x
A Muslim who is liberal in islamic terms tend to be cast to the conservative spectrum in Western terms. They also have a tendency to be anti-Shariah or anti-Fundamentalist. Individuals such as Zuhdi Jasser, Maajid Nawaz, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and even former Muslims wanting to leave the faith. Al-Sisi might fit here.

A Muslim who is a conservative in islamic terms tend to be an islamist. That would be Khamenei, al-Karadawi, Erdogan, bin Laden, al Baghdadi, terrorists et. al.

Western Liberals have a digressive tendency to support and encourage Islamism, whether out of ignorance or spite.

Muslims who are liberal in the Western sense tend to have covert Islamic and anti-semitic tendencies. These tend to be the likes of Linda Sarsour, CAIR, CAGE, etc.

The best encounter of Islam and Muslims is to develop a personal relationship with an honest practicing Muslim. Discuss life and challenges with them.

The most shocking and eye-opening critical information about Islam can be heard from former Muslims, who reveal first hand experience and knowledge of practices and beliefs, and especially things not often discussed in public.

Of all these, who is to be believed? I would say ALL of them, if you want a 360 degree views of reality. They all have a piece of the same picture.

Last edited by Phos; 07.01.2018 at 15:46.
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Old 07.01.2018, 15:31
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Q. Where in the Quran or in the Hadith are Muslims exhorted to establish a global Islamic Caliphate?

A. Nowhere really!

Source

Here is a link to a letter sent to ISIS by 126 Muslim scholars from ca. 40 countries disputing their interpretation of the verses in several areas including establishing a global Islamic Caliphate.

Source
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  #1585  
Old 07.01.2018, 15:36
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I like getting the last word in too.



A Muslim who is liberal in islamic terms tend to be cast to the conservative spectrum in Western terms. They also have a tendency to be anti-Shariah or anti-Fundamentalist. Individuals such as Zuhdi Jasser, Maajid Nawaz, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and even former Muslims wanting to leave the faith. Al-Sisi might fit here.

A Muslim who is a conservative in islamic terms tend to be an islamist. That would be Khamenei, al-Karadawi, Erdogan, bin Laden, al Baghdadi, terrorists et. al.

Western Liberals have a digressive tendency to support and encourage Islamism, whether out of ignorance or spite.

Muslims who are liberal in the Western sense tend to have covert Islamic and anti-semitic tendencies. These tend to be the likes of Linda Sarsour, CAIR, CAGE, etc.

The best encounter of Islam and Muslims is to develop a personal relationship with an honest practicing Muslim. Discuss life and challenges with them.

The most shocking and eye-opening critical information about Islam can be heard from former Muslims, who reveal first hand experience and knowledge of practices and beliefs, and especially things not outed in public.

Of all these, who is to be believed? I would say ALL of them, if you want a 360 degree views of reality. They all have a piece of the same picture.
"who is to be believed? I would say ALL of them" Sounds like a recipe for madness.
If you want to say all views should be studied and evaluated then I agree, but belief!! That is a step too far.
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Old 07.01.2018, 15:41
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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...i.e. trying to attract more followers into the flock/herd or whatever, to believe in that one true god as all others must be wrong and so nonbelievers will burn perish or not be saved in the afterlife or whatever bad ending is promised by any particular belief.
Just chucking this into the arena...

I've had cause for fisticuffs with people over aggressive recruitment tactics. 7yrs ago, some religious guys were harassing schoolgirls (they were in uniform) on the bus. The driver stopped the bus and I helped him to remove the guys when they decided to get physical. The driver called the police and the guys ran away. The guys were LDS and I've never experienced that with any other faith. I reported it to my neighbour, who is an LDS preacher, and he said the matter "would be dealt with".

If any other faith come door knocking, I just tell them I'm a Jewish lesbian. They never know how to respond to that and just leave.
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Old 07.01.2018, 15:44
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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"who is to be believed? I would say ALL of them" Sounds like a recipe for madness.
If you want to say all views should be studied and evaluated then I agree, but belief!! That is a step too far.

If someone tells you they believe something, you will have to believe that they do in fact believe it. It doesn't mean you have to believe what they believe. This is important if you want a 360 degree understanding of it.

Madness is evident all around this thingamajig of peace.

Maybe you're partially right about Western Liberals. Western liberal retards could be totally discounted from that conversation, as they rarely know what they are talking about and are more often useless idiots than not.

Last edited by Phos; 07.01.2018 at 15:54.
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Old 07.01.2018, 15:54
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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If someone tells you they believe something, you will have to believe that they do in fact believe it. It doesn't mean you have to believe what they believe. This is important if you want a 360 degree understanding of it.
Twiddle minded family member believes in chem trails (amongst other things that twiddle minded people are prone to believing). I believe in telling her she's talking absolute bollocks.
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Old 07.01.2018, 21:45
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I never took DB to be a fear monger. But, hey ho. The teachings of most old books are usually not applicable in the modern world and while I am not going to defend or denounce any particular religion, I think you'll find that the majority of people are not that literal about the teachings contained. However you will find an orthodox, fundamental and devout proportion that will take the teachings literally. These beliefs are not confined to the Quran, but are found in all religious texts. A whopping example is the American Conservative Right that repeatedly refers to parts of the Bible to counter giving equal rights to LGBTQ people. These are supposed to be modern educated people living in a Western society. My point is DB that even if the Quran has bits in it about creating a global Caliphate, and having the world follow the teachings of Mohammed and Islam (you could post the exact exerts of the texts here, although I am not that interested.) The majority of Muslims just want to worship for themselves and are not on a mission to create a global Caliphate. Now I won't say I personally agree with most teachings of most religions, I am an Atheist, I have a background in Science, but I am not going to be as extreme as Dawkins who sits at the other end of the spectrum. Its a world where some people need to believe in something more then others to give meaning and purpose to existence. Islam is just one of those mechanisms. The majority are not out on the streets of Pakistan burning American flags, nor are they plotting to overthrow the West with Islamic culture. Its a minority that stoke fear and resentment and that is applicable on both sides of the debate.
You're right, the majority of Muslims aren't a problem, however people like you are. It's funny, you scrabble around trying to compare a few Bible Belter's view on homosexuality with that of the entire Muslim world, like there's even a comparison to be made. It's ludicrous.

Most Muslims aren't radical Islamists, and they want to address the problem of radical Islam like anyone else. However poll after poll can be found which shows how many Muslims (especially amongst the young in Europe) want to introduce Sharia Law in Europe, or want to ban homosexuality. This is a problem, yet you won't even entertain the idea.

And this is why people like you are the problem, especially people like you in the main stream media. By not even admitting there's an issue, by not being able to have a rational discussion about it, by not even entertaining the idea, you're just fueling the rise of the far right.
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Old 07.01.2018, 22:09
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Most Muslims aren't radical Islamists, and they want to address the problem of radical Islam like anyone else. However poll after poll can be found which shows how many Muslims (especially amongst the young in Europe) want to introduce Sharia Law in Europe, or want to ban homosexuality. This is a problem, yet you won't even entertain the idea.
About here would be really good to provide a link. Just sayin’...

Most of the polls I see rate UK Muslims tolerating homosexuality more than UK Christians.
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Old 07.01.2018, 22:19
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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About here would be really good to provide a link. Just sayin’...

Most of the polls I see rate UK Muslims tolerating homosexuality more than UK Christians.
Stop using reality to confuse Loz.
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  #1592  
Old 07.01.2018, 22:30
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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"who is to be believed? .... If you want to say all views should be studied and evaluated then I agree, but belief!! That is a step too far.
I would propose that belief in belief and belief of believers is well beyond belief in the first place.
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Old 07.01.2018, 23:13
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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However poll after poll can be found which shows how many Muslims (especially amongst the young in Europe) want to introduce Sharia Law in Europe, or want to ban homosexuality. This is a problem, yet you won't even entertain the idea.
And poll after poll show that the overwhelming majority of Brits (62%) would support the re-introduction of hanging for certain types of murder (e.g. child and cop killers). Its never going to happen though so I wouldn't pay them too much heed (unless for the expressed purposes of demonising them ).
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Old 08.01.2018, 00:13
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Old 08.01.2018, 01:27
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Been posted in this thread before and been debunked before here

You are a time waster, sad!

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Two police officers interviewed for the broadcast told Dagens Nyeter newspaper on Monday that their interview had been edited and “we were answering completely different questions in the interview”.
They described the filmmaker who interviewed them, Ami Horowitz, as “a madman”
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Old 08.01.2018, 06:44
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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You're right, the majority of Muslims aren't a problem, however people like you are. It's funny, you scrabble around trying to compare a few Bible Belter's view on homosexuality with that of the entire Muslim world, like there's even a comparison to be made. It's ludicrous.

Most Muslims aren't radical Islamists, and they want to address the problem of radical Islam like anyone else. However poll after poll can be found which shows how many Muslims (especially amongst the young in Europe) want to introduce Sharia Law in Europe, or want to ban homosexuality. This is a problem, yet you won't even entertain the idea.

And this is why people like you are the problem, especially people like you in the main stream media. By not even admitting there's an issue, by not being able to have a rational discussion about it, by not even entertaining the idea, you're just fueling the rise of the far right.
I am the problem? Its people like you that are the problem Loz, through post after post on internet forums insinuating all Muslims are a problem, because they don't integrate or they form gangs of sexual predators or all hold extremist views. Regardless of what you say, I never said there were not issues and there are. But you seem to believe (along with a few others on this forum) that Muslims and Islam are in total contradiction to western values. I am merely pointing out that we have our own backwards thinking religious zealots too. We need to all get along in society regardless of faith, colour, creed or sexuality. If that is too liberal for you, then you can shove it where the sun doesn't shine, because the reality is we all have to live together somehow. Unless you favour other more extreme approaches to creating a homogenised all "white superior" society.

Now excuse me while I flounce out of here....
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Old 08.01.2018, 08:20
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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A Muslim who is a conservative in islamic terms tend to be an islamist. That would be Khamenei, al-Karadawi, Erdogan, bin Laden, al Baghdadi, terrorists et. al.

Western Liberals have a digressive tendency to support and encourage Islamism, whether out of ignorance or spite.

.
Many of the more conservative and traditionalist Muslims I have conversed with have been French Muslims, hailing from North Africa, where things are different than in the Middle East.

But one recurring message I picked up, especially from the older generation, that is people who came to France in the 1960s and early 1970s and are now grandparents is that they feel the Liberal Establishment has got between them and the education of their children, and that they feel their children and grandchildren don't understand Islam properly and in its real context because they didn't get that context and they were taught things at school that contradict with that context. One guy told me that back in the 1980s, that long before Islamic extremism was the problem it was now, there was a group of young guys in his mosque who were talking like that and meeting outside of official prayer times and being taught things by self proclaimed teachers that were in contradiction to what the main Imam was saying. He said the mosque elders wanted to slam their foot down on that, and there had been some heated confrontations between mosque elders and these guys. These young guys had called in the police and basically got a court order prohibiting the elders from confronting them. This guy said we could have stamped out radicalism but your liberal state wouldn't let us. And this from a self avowed traditionalist. This is just one side of the story of course. So it needs to be seen through some filters.

The same guy told me BTW that he felt traditional Muslims had more in common with people like Le Pen than any of the more liberal parties because they stood for the same things, and he fully supported their fight to preserve traditional French values. But he regretted that many FN supporters didn't understand that.

Maybe conservatives need to reach out to Muslims a bit more?
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Old 08.01.2018, 08:24
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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About here would be really good to provide a link. Just sayin’...

Most of the polls I see rate UK Muslims tolerating homosexuality more than UK Christians.
My pleasure.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Link 4

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Stop using reality to confuse Loz.
Empty words from baboon again. There's something new.

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And poll after poll show that the overwhelming majority of Brits (62%) would support the re-introduction of hanging for certain types of murder (e.g. child and cop killers). Its never going to happen though so I wouldn't pay them too much heed (unless for the expressed purposes of demonising them ).
Surely even you can see the difference between wanting to punish convicted criminals, and wanting to enforce a way of life on to others?

And btw, the death penalty is prevalent across the Muslim world.
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Old 08.01.2018, 08:38
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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they don't integrate or they form gangs of sexual predators or all hold extremist views.
All these things have happened and are happening. Like in real life.

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Islam are in total contradiction to western values.
It is.

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I am merely pointing out that we have our own backwards thinking religious zealots too.
Just not as many. By a long long way.

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We need to all get along in society regardless of faith, colour, creed or sexuality.
True.

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If that is too liberal for you, then you can shove it where the sun doesn't shine, because the reality is we all have to live together somehow. Unless you favour other more extreme approaches to creating a homogenised all "white superior" society.
And this is the part where you completely miss the point of anything I ever say and resort to calling me racist.

We do all need to get along. Blind tolerance however isn't the answer to achieving this. First we have to admit there's a problem and then discuss it. This is where people like you fail.
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Old 08.01.2018, 09:27
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Maybe conservatives need to reach out to Muslims a bit more?
One of the most irritating things I see is when a western liberal prevents a frank and open discussion between real Muslims and non-Muslims, because said liberal gets nervous about it.

That is when said liberal rightfully earns getting called "ignorant retard"!

I don't truly believe that Islamic domination is a primary threat to Western Civilization. I don't see the West being peacefully subjugated without putting up a big fight.

IMO, the bigger threat to Western Civilization are its own psychologically, philosophically and morally retarded liberals.

(I always have get a dig in somehow )
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