Early contender for Flounce of The Year

I like getting the last word in too.

A Muslim who is liberal in islamic terms tend to be cast to the conservative spectrum in Western terms. They also have a tendency to be anti-Shariah or anti-Fundamentalist. Individuals such as Zuhdi Jasser, Maajid Nawaz, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and even former Muslims wanting to leave the faith. Al-Sisi might fit here.

A Muslim who is a conservative in islamic terms tend to be an islamist. That would be Khamenei, al-Karadawi, Erdogan, bin Laden, al Baghdadi, terrorists et. al.

Western Liberals have a digressive tendency to support and encourage Islamism, whether out of ignorance or spite.

Muslims who are liberal in the Western sense tend to have covert Islamic and anti-semitic tendencies. These tend to be the likes of Linda Sarsour, CAIR, CAGE, etc.

The best encounter of Islam and Muslims is to develop a personal relationship with an honest practicing Muslim. Discuss life and challenges with them.

The most shocking and eye-opening critical information about Islam can be heard from former Muslims, who reveal first hand experience and knowledge of practices and beliefs, and especially things not often discussed in public.

Of all these, who is to be believed? I would say ALL of them, if you want a 360 degree views of reality. They all have a piece of the same picture.

Q. Where in the Quran or in the Hadith are Muslims exhorted to establish a global Islamic Caliphate?

A. Nowhere really!

Source

Here is a link to a letter sent to ISIS by 126 Muslim scholars from ca. 40 countries disputing their interpretation of the verses in several areas including establishing a global Islamic Caliphate.

Source

"who is to be believed? I would say ALL of them" Sounds like a recipe for madness.
If you want to say all views should be studied and evaluated then I agree, but belief!! That is a step too far.

Just chucking this into the arena...

I've had cause for fisticuffs with people over aggressive recruitment tactics. 7yrs ago, some religious guys were harassing schoolgirls (they were in uniform) on the bus. The driver stopped the bus and I helped him to remove the guys when they decided to get physical. The driver called the police and the guys ran away. The guys were LDS and I've never experienced that with any other faith. I reported it to my neighbour, who is an LDS preacher, and he said the matter "would be dealt with".

If any other faith come door knocking, I just tell them I'm a Jewish lesbian. They never know how to respond to that and just leave.

If someone tells you they believe something, you will have to believe that they do in fact believe it. It doesn't mean you have to believe what they believe. This is important if you want a 360 degree understanding of it.

Madness is evident all around this thingamajig of peace.

Maybe you're partially right about Western Liberals. Western liberal retards could be totally discounted from that conversation, as they rarely know what they are talking about and are more often useless idiots than not.

Twiddle minded family member believes in chem trails (amongst other things that twiddle minded people are prone to believing). I believe in telling her she's talking absolute bollocks.

You're right, the majority of Muslims aren't a problem, however people like you are. It's funny, you scrabble around trying to compare a few Bible Belter's view on homosexuality with that of the entire Muslim world, like there's even a comparison to be made. It's ludicrous.

Most Muslims aren't radical Islamists, and they want to address the problem of radical Islam like anyone else. However poll after poll can be found which shows how many Muslims (especially amongst the young in Europe) want to introduce Sharia Law in Europe, or want to ban homosexuality. This is a problem, yet you won't even entertain the idea.

And this is why people like you are the problem, especially people like you in the main stream media. By not even admitting there's an issue, by not being able to have a rational discussion about it, by not even entertaining the idea, you're just fueling the rise of the far right.

About here would be really good to provide a link. Just sayin’...

Most of the polls I see rate UK Muslims tolerating homosexuality more than UK Christians.

Stop using reality to confuse Loz.

I would propose that belief in belief and belief of believers is well beyond belief in the first place.

And poll after poll show that the overwhelming majority of Brits (62%) would support the re-introduction of hanging for certain types of murder (e.g. child and cop killers). Its never going to happen though so I wouldn't pay them too much heed (unless for the expressed purposes of demonising them ).

Been posted in this thread before and been debunked before here

You are a time waster, sad!

I am the problem? Its people like you that are the problem Loz, through post after post on internet forums insinuating all Muslims are a problem, because they don't integrate or they form gangs of sexual predators or all hold extremist views. Regardless of what you say, I never said there were not issues and there are. But you seem to believe (along with a few others on this forum) that Muslims and Islam are in total contradiction to western values. I am merely pointing out that we have our own backwards thinking religious zealots too. We need to all get along in society regardless of faith, colour, creed or sexuality. If that is too liberal for you, then you can shove it where the sun doesn't shine, because the reality is we all have to live together somehow. Unless you favour other more extreme approaches to creating a homogenised all "white superior" society.

Now excuse me while I flounce out of here....

Many of the more conservative and traditionalist Muslims I have conversed with have been French Muslims, hailing from North Africa, where things are different than in the Middle East.

But one recurring message I picked up, especially from the older generation, that is people who came to France in the 1960s and early 1970s and are now grandparents is that they feel the Liberal Establishment has got between them and the education of their children, and that they feel their children and grandchildren don't understand Islam properly and in its real context because they didn't get that context and they were taught things at school that contradict with that context. One guy told me that back in the 1980s, that long before Islamic extremism was the problem it was now, there was a group of young guys in his mosque who were talking like that and meeting outside of official prayer times and being taught things by self proclaimed teachers that were in contradiction to what the main Imam was saying. He said the mosque elders wanted to slam their foot down on that, and there had been some heated confrontations between mosque elders and these guys. These young guys had called in the police and basically got a court order prohibiting the elders from confronting them. This guy said we could have stamped out radicalism but your liberal state wouldn't let us. And this from a self avowed traditionalist. This is just one side of the story of course. So it needs to be seen through some filters.

The same guy told me BTW that he felt traditional Muslims had more in common with people like Le Pen than any of the more liberal parties because they stood for the same things, and he fully supported their fight to preserve traditional French values. But he regretted that many FN supporters didn't understand that.

Maybe conservatives need to reach out to Muslims a bit more?

My pleasure.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Link 4

Empty words from baboon again. There's something new.

Surely even you can see the difference between wanting to punish convicted criminals, and wanting to enforce a way of life on to others?

And btw, the death penalty is prevalent across the Muslim world.

All these things have happened and are happening. Like in real life.

It is.

Just not as many. By a long long way.

True.

And this is the part where you completely miss the point of anything I ever say and resort to calling me racist.

We do all need to get along. Blind tolerance however isn't the answer to achieving this. First we have to admit there's a problem and then discuss it. This is where people like you fail.

One of the most irritating things I see is when a western liberal prevents a frank and open discussion between real Muslims and non-Muslims, because said liberal gets nervous about it.

That is when said liberal rightfully earns getting called "ignorant retard"!

I don't truly believe that Islamic domination is a primary threat to Western Civilization. I don't see the West being peacefully subjugated without putting up a big fight.

IMO, the bigger threat to Western Civilization are its own psychologically, philosophically and morally retarded liberals.

(I always have get a dig in somehow )

That speaks volumes more about their blithering discussion skills than the sensibilities of your generic western liberal really, doesn't it?

Sounds like you are the one getting nervous about it.