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  #1621  
Old 08.01.2018, 10:55
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Can't find a decent survey for the UK. However this one for the US in interesting
source

Also found separate UK surveys indicating that 40% of Christians believe homosexuality is "always wrong", not so far off the 50% of Muslims in the ICM survey. However two different polls with two different questions so difficult to compare.

Your thoughts on comparison of severity of response to homosexuality by Christians and Muslims?
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  #1622  
Old 08.01.2018, 10:57
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Your thoughts on comparison of severity of response to homosexuality by Christians and Muslims?
Again

Attacks on LGBT people surge almost 80% in UK over last four years
More than one in five LGBT people verbally or physically attacked due to their sexual orientation or gender identity in last 12 months, figures show.

Source
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  #1623  
Old 08.01.2018, 10:59
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Great, now which one suggests that over half of the Christians in the UK think homosexuality should be illegal?
Up until 1967 British homosexuals could face a maximum sentence of life in prison for the very act of being gay. So lets not get too carried away by our liberal credentials.
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Old 08.01.2018, 11:03
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Sigh!

Attacks on LGBT people surge almost 80% in UK over last four years
More than one in five LGBT people verbally or physically attacked due to their sexual orientation or gender identity in last 12 months, figures show.

Home Office statistics showing that hate crime in general has risen by 48 per cent over the past three years

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Your thoughts on comparison of severity of response to homosexuality by Christians and Muslims?
I think Phos is banging on about the "throwing off the building" thing that tabloids like the DM like to trumpet about, using the same old tired stock pic of some poor bloke being chucked off the tallest still-standing building in wherever.

Every-day attacks in the West (verbal, beatings, acid attacks) aren't juicy enough for him and his line of argument, it seems.
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Old 08.01.2018, 11:03
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Again

Attacks on LGBT people surge almost 80% in UK over last four years
More than one in five LGBT people verbally or physically attacked due to their sexual orientation or gender identity in last 12 months, figures show.

Source
I asked for severity, no quantity. So degree of severity is that many of them sere verbally teased? Or made not to feel too good?

Now show some objectivity and discuss level of severity in Muslim dominated cultures please.
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  #1626  
Old 08.01.2018, 11:05
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Up until 1967 British homosexuals could face a maximum sentence of life in prison for the very act of being gay. So lets not get too carried away by our liberal credentials.
Really?! So what? In Ireland it was illegal until 1993, and now they have a gay man as Prime Minister.
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  #1627  
Old 08.01.2018, 11:06
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I think Phos is banging on about the "throwing off the building" thing that tabloids like the DM like to trumpet about, using the same old tired stock pic of some poor bloke being chucked off the tallest still-standing building in wherever.

Every-day attacks in the West (verbal, beatings, acid attacks) aren't juicy enough for him and his line of argument, it seems.
unless the perpetrators are the muslamics, of course...
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  #1628  
Old 08.01.2018, 11:06
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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We do all need to get along. Blind tolerance however isn't the answer to achieving this. First we have to admit there's a problem and then discuss it. This is where people like you fail.
I don't deny the problems that religion creates in open secular society. I think open discourse is the only hope we have. However its not soley a liberal conundrum and its not soley a problem with Islam. Look at this thread title for example, on a Forum about Switzerland it is quite offensive. We are not just talking about intelligent and open discourse regarding a religion and its followers, on EF people are sitting in their homes or offices in cosy little Switzerland with no real experience or knowledge of a religion or the people that follow it, and ramming right wing gutter press, anti immmigration rehtoric into this thread. Pulling facts and figures out of dubious studies off of dubious websites. Its called cherry picking facts to suit your objectives. In what way does this truly affect you and your life and why do you have such a deep rooted concern? Are you truly worried about the Islamification of Europe? Do you really think that will happen? Are you just worried about how our civil liberties have been affected in the face of terrorism? Do you really believe that there are hoardes of Muslim sexual predators and 20'000 radicalised fundamentals hiding out amongst the refugees and ready to bring war to our streets? As we have seen time and again in America the people who should be feared are not the Muslims or Mexicans or liberals, but the full blooded Americans bearing arms. In Europe we need to be more fearful of those that want to destroy our democracies through Nationalism and spreading fear and breaking up a union that bought us all together (thats another debate) then a religion followed by a relatively small percentage of the overall population.
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  #1629  
Old 08.01.2018, 11:11
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I asked for severity, no quantity. So degree of severity is that many of them sere verbally teased? Or made not to feel too good?

Now show some objectivity and discuss level of severity in Muslim dominated cultures please.
Are you an idiot?

Degree of severity is directly related to quantity of attacks. Only in a society where low-level and sub-lethal attacks are routinely tolerated, does it often progress to more severe attacks, eventually leading to killing LGBTQ people.

Yes, there are exceptions, as there is to everything. But by and large, if people are not punished for verbally insulting someone, it isnt too long before the attacks become physical. When physical attacks become commonplace, lethal attacks are not far behind. Thats why the resurgence of hate crime is such a concern - it is a signal that reprehensible behavior is becoming more acceptable.

or is the body count the only thing that matters?
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  #1630  
Old 08.01.2018, 11:12
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I don't deny the problems that religion creates in open secular society. I think open discourse is the only hope we have. However its not soley a liberal conundrum and its not soley a problem with Islam. Look at this thread title for example, on a Forum about Switzerland it is quite offensive. We are not just talking about intelligent and open discourse regarding a religion and its followers, on EF people are sitting in their homes or offices in cosy little Switzerland with no real experience or knowledge of a religion or the people that follow it, and ramming right wing gutter press, anti immmigration rehtoric into this thread. Pulling facts and figures out of dubious studies off of dubious websites. Its called cherry picking facts to suit your objectives. In what way does this truly affect you and your life and why do you have such a deep rooted concern? Are you truly worried about the Islamification of Europe? Do you really think that will happen? Are you just worried about how our civil liberties have been affected in the face of terrorism? Do you really believe that there are hoardes of Muslim sexual predators and 20'000 radicalised fundamentals hiding out amongst the refugees and ready to bring war to our streets? As we have seen time and again in America the people who should be feared are not the Muslims or Mexicans or liberals, but the full blooded Americans bearing arms. In Europe we need to be more fearful of those that want to destroy our democracies through Nationalism and spreading fear and breaking up a union that bought us all together (thats another debate) then a religion followed by a relatively small percentage of the overall population.

To be honest, this whole thread is a bit of an embarrassment to EF.
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  #1631  
Old 08.01.2018, 11:12
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Really?! So what? In Ireland it was illegal until 1993, and now they have a gay man as Prime Minister.
Err the point is that third world countries lag behind the first world in a number of metrics. I would say clean drinking water, literacy, sanitation, infant mortality, female education etc.. are equally important issues to address. And not every Muslim country is either Iran or Saudi.
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Old 08.01.2018, 11:13
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Up until 1967 British homosexuals could face a maximum sentence of life in prison for the very act of being gay. So lets not get too carried away by our liberal credentials.
In the 1960s many other things were still real that today we consider beyond abhorrent. Jim Crow laws for example. But this was very much the bitter tail end or the last backlash of an old system that had started failing and crumbling and had lost its foothold long before.

The question is, has the intolerant and ugly side of Islam also started an analogous crumbling process, or is it actually flourishing? Are they in 1960 or 1860 or 1460?
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  #1633  
Old 08.01.2018, 11:14
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Are you an idiot?
If you mean to assert that violent homophobia is a bigger problem in the West with Christians than in Islamic societies and Muslims, I'd say you are more than an idiot, you are a dishonest liar.
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  #1634  
Old 08.01.2018, 11:15
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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It suggests that Muslims in American are more accepting of homosexuality than white evangelical Protestants. Furthermore, their rate of acceptance is moving is increasing faster than those of Protestants.
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It added: "Indeed, the share of Muslim Americans who say homosexuality should be accepted by society has nearly doubled since 2007."
Doubling in 5 years? yes, they seem very regressive.
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  #1635  
Old 08.01.2018, 11:17
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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If you mean to assert that violent homophobia is a bigger problem in the West with Christians than in Islamic societies and Muslims, I'd say you are more than an idiot, you are a dishonest liar.
I would assert that violent homophobia is a big problem everywhere, regardless of where it happens.

On the other hand, and unlike yourself, I would not assert that violent homophobia that occurs on the streets of the UK is more acceptable then the violent homophobia that happens on the streets of Tehran.
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  #1636  
Old 08.01.2018, 11:17
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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To be honest, this whole thread is a bit of an embarrassment to EF.
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If you mean to assert that violent homophobia is a bigger problem in the West with Christians than in Islamic societies and Muslims, I'd say you are more than an idiot, you are a dishonest liar.
The reading comprehension is pretty basic, too...
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  #1637  
Old 08.01.2018, 11:19
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

Typical denials. Although I am not sure how willful and intentional it is.

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Doubling in 5 years? yes, they seem very regressive.
Muslims make up about 1% of the US population, and in that proportion, tend to be very low key and even contrite about the views they hold.

Contrast that with views of Muslims in places where they make up more than 10% of the population. The larger the percentage of population, the more bolder the assertion of their values and views.
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Old 08.01.2018, 11:23
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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If you mean to assert that violent homophobia is a bigger problem in the West with Christians than in Islamic societies and Muslims, I'd say you are more than an idiot, you are a dishonest liar.
I thought the subject was Muslims in the UK vs. Christians in the UK? In which case it appears to be impossible to get reliable statistics categorising offences by attacker. However most of the really nasty stuff you read about in the UK seems to be committed by extreme right wingers of the shaven head variety.
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  #1639  
Old 08.01.2018, 11:23
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

**Trying to imagine the size of the football field big enough to accommodate the number of goal post movements that Phos has made.**
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Old 08.01.2018, 11:25
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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In the 1960s many other things were still real that today we consider beyond abhorrent. Jim Crow laws for example. But this was very much the bitter tail end or the last backlash of an old system that had started failing and crumbling and had lost its foothold long before.

The question is, has the intolerant and ugly side of Islam also started an analogous crumbling process, or is it actually flourishing? Are they in 1960 or 1860?
Start with those Muslims you know and who live and work around you. Are they acting in a homophobic or threatening manner or are they well integrated, law abiding and accepting of others? My image of Hindus is based on those I work with, not lynch mobs in Uttar Pradesh.
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