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  #1641  
Old 08.01.2018, 12:26
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I thought the subject was Muslims in the UK vs. Christians in the UK? In which case it appears to be impossible to get reliable statistics categorising offences by attacker. However most of the really nasty stuff you read about in the UK seems to be committed by extreme right wingers of the shaven head variety.
How often does that happen? And realistically, I believe sames sex partners can marry in the UK, even in a Christian church. When and where has anything like that ever happened in a Muslim dominated society?

Is this even a serious comparison and discussion? Or just outright willful denial of reality?
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  #1642  
Old 08.01.2018, 12:35
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I thought the subject was Muslims in the UK vs. Christians in the UK? In which case it appears to be impossible to get reliable statistics categorising offences by attacker. However most of the really nasty stuff you read about in the UK seems to be committed by extreme right wingers of the shaven head variety.
We all know that, but Phos chooses to ignore that fact.

It gets in the way of his 'all the muslamics are evil' jihad, you see.
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  #1643  
Old 08.01.2018, 12:37
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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We all know that, but Phos chooses to ignore that fact.

It gets in the way of his 'all the muslamics are evil' jihad, you see.
Actually, if you had any comprehension skills, I just stated Libtardization Hypnotization and Stupidization is a much greater danger to Western Civilization than Muslamic Evilization. That only comes in 2nd place now.
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  #1644  
Old 08.01.2018, 12:39
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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How often does that happen? And realistically, I believe sames sex partners can marry in the UK, even in a Christian church. When and where has anything like that ever happened in a Muslim dominated society?

Is this even a serious comparison and discussion? Or just outright willful denial of reality?
Haven't you been paying attention?

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Again

Attacks on LGBT people surge almost 80% in UK over last four years
More than one in five LGBT people verbally or physically attacked due to their sexual orientation or gender identity in last 12 months, figures show.

Source
In a Scottish episcopal church? yes, gays can marry.

In an English catholic church? no, they most certainly cannot marry.

Are your arms getting tired from all this goalpost-moving?
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  #1645  
Old 08.01.2018, 12:41
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Haven't you been paying attention?

In a Scottish episcopal church? yes, gays can marry.

In an English catholic church? no, they most certainly cannot marry.

Are your arms getting tired from all this goalpost-moving?

You're not paying attention.

Now ask some same-sex couples to try to get married in a mosque in some Muslim dominated society.
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  #1646  
Old 08.01.2018, 12:43
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Actually, if you had any comprehension skills, I just stated Libtardization Hypnotization is a much greater danger to Western Civilization than Muslamic evilization. That only comes in 2nd now.
Everyone, i claim the prize of getting Phos to use the term 'libtard'.

You know when that term is used, there is not going to be anything more of substance contributed by the speaker.

Its not even midday :-)
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  #1647  
Old 08.01.2018, 12:45
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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You're not paying attention.

Now ask some same-sex couples to try to get married in a mosque in some Muslim dominated society.
You're moving the goalposts - yet again.

Being able to get married in a church is one thing, being able to walk down the street unmolested is another.

You brought up the topic of homophobic crime, why so eager to change the topic phos?
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  #1648  
Old 08.01.2018, 12:49
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Everyone, i claim the prize of getting Phos to use the term 'libtard'.

You know when that term is used, there is not going to be anything more of substance contributed by the speaker.

Its not even midday :-)
Bravo... except... it still hasn't caused the problems being discussed to disappear. aber schön für dich, I guess.

Let me know when you make any progress in your thinking.
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  #1649  
Old 08.01.2018, 12:50
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Start with those Muslims you know and who live and work around you. Are they acting in a homophobic or threatening manner or are they well integrated, law abiding and accepting of others? My image of Hindus is based on those I work with, not lynch mobs in Uttar Pradesh.
I have engaged in discussion with Uttar Pradesh type Hindus, but it was on Internet forums and they were a long long way away from me, both geographically and in terms of everyday experiences and contextual understanding. Also, they did appear quite reasonable by and large, and argued that a lot of what I believed abouit them was untrue or only one side of the story, and invited me to come there to see for myself. Seeing i have more pressing things to do, I never did test that hypothesis. But maybe there is some truth to it.

I have walked down streets in France where I was given pamphlets to read condemning homosexuality. I spoke to one guy about it and there was no hiding behind supposed misunderstandings or there being another side to the story. He repeated in unsubtle terms what the pamphlet said and felt there was nothing to add. At my first job in Switzerland I had a Muslim co-worker who gave me a similar pamphlet and was also quite unashamed about it. I also know from other co-workers that they never got those pamphlets or got to see that side of him, so maybe for some reason this guy felt he could be more open towards me. I don't know. He also gave me a luxury looking edition of the Koran which i still have. I think on the whole he was a well meaning guy and he was pleasant to work with, and despite that homosexuality thing, which strained our relationship for a while, my memories of him are mostly positive.

I know anecdotes don't make statistics, and the few don't speak for the many. But our opinions are formed by our personal experiences.
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  #1650  
Old 08.01.2018, 12:50
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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You're not paying attention.

Now ask some same-sex couples to try to get married in a mosque in some Muslim dominated society.
It's irrelevant. Look at the title of the thread.

Same sex Muslims can't get married in any mosque anywhere but in most of Europe, the law permits them to be legally married. Presumably they wouldn't give a toss if they couldn't marry in a Catholic church but the fact is the thread is about Muslims in Europe and, in this case, they can marry.
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  #1651  
Old 08.01.2018, 12:57
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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I have engaged in discussion with Uttar Pradesh type Hindus, but it was on Internet forums and they were a long long way away from me, both geographically and in terms of everyday experiences and contextual understanding. Also, they did appear quite reasonable by and large, and argued that a lot of what I believed abouit them was untrue or only one side of the story, and invited me to come there to see for myself. Seeing i have more pressing things to do, I never did test that hypothesis. But maybe there is some truth to it.
Yes, lynching somebody en masse and killing them in full view of their children is of course, an appropriate response to a rumour that said person ate some beef. People who do that are of course 'quite reasonable, by and large'.

religious extremism is religious extremism, whether in a village in Uttar pradesh or the streets of Budleigh Salterton.
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  #1652  
Old 08.01.2018, 12:59
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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It's irrelevant. Look at the title of the thread.

Same sex Muslims can't get married in any mosque anywhere but in most of Europe, the law permits them to be legally married. Presumably they wouldn't give a toss if they couldn't marry in a Catholic church but the fact is the thread is about Muslims in Europe and, in this case, they can marry.
Goal post moved, but my point scored anyway. Cultural attitudes are not geographically based. There is a stark difference is response and intensity of homophobia across both contrasting cultures. Full stop. Play with yourselves beyond that proven point!
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  #1653  
Old 08.01.2018, 13:06
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Goal post moved, but my point scored anyway. Cultural attitudes are not geographically based. There is a stark difference is response and intensity of homophobia across both contrasting cultures. Full stop. Play with yourselves beyond that proven point!
Nope, still not relevant.

Also, you can't say "Cultural attitudes are not geographically based" then emphatically contradict yourself in the next sentence.

Saying "Full stop" doesn't really make it credible.
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  #1654  
Old 08.01.2018, 13:07
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Goal post moved, but my point scored anyway. Cultural attitudes are not geographically based. There is a stark difference is response and intensity of homophobia across both contrasting cultures. Full stop. Play with yourselves beyond that proven point!
Sounds like the sign-off of someone who's argument has been rightly trounced and has nothing more of substance to add.

Enjoy your week, Phos.
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  #1655  
Old 08.01.2018, 13:21
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Actually, if you had any comprehension skills, I just stated Libtardization Hypnotization and Stupidization is a much greater danger to Western Civilization than Muslamic Evilization. That only comes in 2nd place now.
...in your parallel universe.
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Now ask some same-sex couples to try to get married in a mosque in some Muslim dominated society.
But most heterosexual Muslim marriages are not conducted in a mosque, so that's a moot point.
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  #1656  
Old 08.01.2018, 13:29
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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But most heterosexual Muslim marriages are not conducted in a mosque, so that's a moot point.
Phos has no idea about Muslim marriages.

For example, he isn't aware that only a blessing takes place in a mosque. And very often, the blessing isn't actually done in a mosque at all, but in the reception hall.

Or that the blessing can be done by anybody, as long as there are witnesses, and there is no need for a priest at all.

The reception itself is entirely cultural and has no bearing on religion.

But like i said, facts like this get in the way of Phos's 'all-muslims-are-evil' jihad.
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  #1657  
Old 08.01.2018, 13:34
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Start with those Muslims you know and who live and work around you. Are they acting in a homophobic or threatening manner or are they well integrated, law abiding and accepting of others? My image of Hindus is based on those I work with, not lynch mobs in Uttar Pradesh.
Hehe, since when did that work in real life.
"I'm not a racist, one of my best friends is (insert the colour or religion or whatever)....". They might even have colleagues or neighbours of a specific kind, but that won't change their opinion on the whole lot. People need some group(s) to dislike, mistrust, belittle, despise, maybe even hate.
I wouldn't be too bothered about it.
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  #1658  
Old 08.01.2018, 13:38
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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Hehe, since when did that work in real life.
"I'm not a racist, one of my best friends is (insert the colour or religion or whatever)....". They might even have colleagues or neighbours of a specific kind, but that won't change their opinion on the whole lot. People need some group(s) to dislike, mistrust, maybe even hate.
I wouldn't be too bothered about it.
History has shown that when times are tough, people find it much more palatable to blame the people they are told to blame, rather then face the fact that their society is broken through their own inaction. This is true even when their own personal experience is contradictory to the narrative they are told. To use the most extreme example, Germans who had coexisted peacefully with jewish neighbors for generations had no qualms about shopping their neighbors to the authorities. How many jews could have been saved if this weren't the case? They often had no personal problems with jews or jewish people, but they were told to hate them and blame them.

Often, the people responsible for society's shortfalls will be the ones offering up a scapegoat, and the chaos that follows suits them just fine. For the scapegoats, though, things are never quite the same again.

Jews know this only too well.
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  #1659  
Old 08.01.2018, 13:48
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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People need some group(s) to dislike, mistrust, belittle, despise, maybe even hate.
Arsenal fans, and even they're a step above Millwall fans
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Old 08.01.2018, 13:50
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Re: All about Muslims (in the wake of terrorist attacks in Europe)

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History has shown that when times are tough, people find it much more palatable to blame the people they are told to blame, rather then face the fact that their society is broken through their own inaction. This is true even when their own personal experience is contradictory to the narrative they are told.

Often, the people responsible for society's shortfalls will be the ones offering up a scapegoat, and the chaos that follows suits them just fine. For the scapegoats, though, things are never quite the same again.

Jews know this only too well.
I hear you and agree up to some point. Jews know it too well but Jews are also a relatively small community (I know, I know....some will argue they're...everywhere!), despite of being quite spread across the world. Re. Islamic religion and followers - I think there is quite a lot of diplomacy today, in Europe, if only because so many countries have Islam as dominant religion and people need economic relations. I don't think that things can get out of control on this issue. Prejudices are a different thing though and to act against those it will take a while. Seriously, you can't imply that Muslims in Europe of today suffer what Jews suffered not only before the second world war, but many a time throughout European history.
Meanwhile, episodes like Charlie Hebdo don't help at all.
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