Or, rather - let's not move on. Let's talk about Capo's perception. How true is it? If he lives in East London, maybe he's got a point. If he lives in rural Schwyz, maybe he's just got a grudge against Mr Yilmaz upstairs.

I actually lived for a few years in the district shown in Capo's photograph and I loved it. A whole mile of curry and kebab houses, many open till four or five in the morning, and an Irish pub slap bang in the middle of it! What's not to love?

Further to my last post, regarding Johann Hari's article, I think it's time to clarify my position for those who haven't quite understood (yes, TobiasM, I'm looking at you).

I've been interested in Islam since long before it was fashionable. I am by no means a scholar, but I've read several books on the subject, both critical and hilariously biased, by "progressive" Muslims, "conservative" Muslims, sympathetic non-Muslims and furious anti-Muslims, over several years.

I used to know a lot of Muslims, too. Because I was perceived as being sympathetic to their cause (which I was, to be fair), I was treated to conversations a little deeper than the usual dinner party fare. Some opinions I heard were excessively liberal even to my agnostic ears (a drunken session with a Sufi in Istanbul springs to mind), whereas others were quite shocking even to my socially conservative ears (I heard that homosexuals should be put to death way more often that I've previously cared to admit. But hey, I'm not gay and everyone's entitled to her opinion, eh?). I encountered racism, bigotry, wisdom and clarity of thought in various measures and degrees. But, you know, it's a free country and we're all entitled to be wrong. Also, as a social conservative, I didn't always disagree with what they had to say, even if they were sometimes a bit extreme in their conclusions and suggested solutions.

If you scroll through the early part of this thread, you'll see that up until last summer, I always argued in defence of Muslims. I figured that much "islamophobia" was simply a respectable front for racism, that Muslims are scapegoats (which, let's be frank, they often are), that they needed defending. I gradually fell out of love with Islam as an ideology, but as Loz1983 has quite rightly pointed out several times: Islam and Muslims are not the same thing.

Then Charlottesville and a number of Islamist attacks happened. I don't want to rehash what I said back then - it's all on EF somewhere - but to summarise, I realised that I - and lots of people like me - were utter hypocrites. I was quick to chant that the only good Nazi was a dead Nazi, or that people who kept quiet or showed ambivalence towards white supremacy were a bunch of amoral enablers... but somehow, when it came to ideologically inspired pedestrian murderers of a different stripe, well, then, no, not all Muslims, etc etc...

Troubled by this sudden realisation that I'd been a Useful Idiot for the previous twenty years, I started to rethink my position. Actually, there is a problem with Islam in Europe. Actually, this has little to do with terrorism, but quite a lot to do with a mismatch between modern liberal culture and a profoundly conservative, somewhat alien culture. Actually, most Muslims are perfectly decent people to share a coffee with. Actually, quite a lot of Muslims hold opinions that would make Owen Jones throw up - but they don't always share them with non-Muslims for the same reason that most socially conservative people watch their tongues these days. Actually, Muslims are big boys and girls. Actually, Muslims don't need well-meaning dickheads like me to speak up for them - especially those who are trying their best to quell the rising bullshit amongst their communities.

The conversation needs to be had. Whether Islam is a nasty ideology is a matter of opinion. That Islam is an expansionist - and often aggressive - ideology is a plain fact. That Islam is fundamentally incompatible with modern liberal notions of diversity, tolerance and democracy - well, that's also a matter of opinion, but you only need to take a few minutes to read any serious theological work by Muslim scholars to see that it's a stitch up job at best. When Islamic activists drove the prostitutes out of a Birmingham suburb back in the eighties, I'm sure the local conservatives weren't too upset - but how does that tickle your liberal fancies?

But we can't have the conversation, because as soon as anybody dares show anything other than unwavering support for Islam and Muslims, he's a bigot. It happened to me last summer. It's happening to other members here, too. Ambivalence has no place in our new 'tolerant' world. Hey, as long as we all keep our religions to ourselves, it's cool, right? And everyone agrees with that, right? Right? Right?

Yeah, just keep saying that. Thunder against baptist bigots and presbyterian homophobes, but, well, it's not our place to tell other people what to believe. Who wants a samosa? Don't I look pretty in my sari?

Come on, people. I have good friends who are marxists, but it doesn't stop me from appraising marxism with a critical eye. Why should religions - any religions - be exempt from criticism?

You're actually illiterate, aren't you?

And, sure, it was a bit intimidating to go out during Eid when the gangs of lads would hang around and the police would bring in the big horses, but that's no different to New Years' Eve, is it?