Oh, it was all a myth then? For a moment there, I was concerned about the safety of European women.

What about the fact that under islamic law (shariah) the womens testiomony is only worth half of a mans? So you need two womens testiomy to equal one mans.

https://islamqa.info/en/20051

I think they are.

A lot of people in Germany are pretty angry at Frau Merkel right now. People like Pegida always go to great lengths to denounce violence and to say they are calling out Merkel and that the migrants themsleves are victims.

The people who attack random brown.skinned people on the street are below contempt, and fortunately, they are a tiny minority.

The problem though is that the Merkelite press manages to twist every anti government protest as being an anti-immigrant one. Merkel is effectively using the migrants as a shield. If you call people something long enough (anti immigrant, far right, you name it) the danger is that some of them will come to associate themselves with what they are being called and ultimately become it.

This is especially dangerous from a government where you have people like de Maiere and Maas saying words are dangerous as they ultimately become actions. It is strange that they don't think the same applies to their own words.

I guess you reap what you sow.

I hope you are sitting down, because since you don't seem to realize rape victims are also considered guilty of adultery (ie: sex outside of marraige) you have just invalidated your entire counter argument....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...arged-adultery

http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...-under-sharia/

Off topic, but i'll do you this public service.
Again, grossly misinterpreted.


The verse in question is 2:282. It refers exclusively to financial crime (what we would call white collar crime), not to physical crime or crime involving what we're talking about today.

It does refer to getting testimony from two reputable men or from one reputable man and two reputable women.

>It is a measure to prevent a woman's reputation from being attacked at a later date - nobody can claim that this one woman had a vendetta against the accused.
>The rule was designed for a time when financial matters were exclusively a male environment, so if a male witness couldn't be found, it was unlikely that a female one would. As being a witness is considered to be obligatory, if two female witnesses were found they would need to learn about the crime taking place; and since they would be new to this, its likely their opinions would differ. Thus, you would need to find two women, who both agreed that the crime had taken place, after taking into account of the facts. In today's society, it is widely acknowledged (by Muslim scholars) that a woman well-skilled in financial matter can testify by herself, if she chooses, and that her testimony will be no different to a mans.

I never said it was, but thank you for at least trying to counter-argue.

There is a vital difference, as written in the quran, between adultery (sex between two consenting adults) and rape (one non-consenting person).

Rape falls under the 'Hiraba' category of crime - the same that terrorism falls under. Adultery falls under 'Hadd', a completely seperate category which covers things like Theft, false accusations, and highway robbery (that one probably isnt as app;licable today as it used to be).

Sharia specifies that either one or the other is punished - the verse above confirms that. not both.

so, in these cases, it is not according to sharia, it is according more to local custom then to Sharia.

Using varying interpretations of religious scripture as the main legal structure is another huge problem in Arabic countries, but I guess we shouldn't get too far off topic...

By the way, about this argument you are winning... What is the argument about, who is it with, and what is the point? Is it for your own self-talk and self-convincing, or someone else's?

Particularity when they twist it to suit their own objectives, but that is another topic for another day.

Trying to educate people like you.

I'm beginning to see why your teachers gave up.

Lets not get too petty, phos. People might think you were just getting personal because you haven't got anything else of note to add.

That's good, but you really have to balance it with objective realities for credibility. I think its fine to state that most Muslim do not believe and behave the ways some others do, and I can get on that. But to say it does not occur is stretching it.


But you ought to know that never happens.

Off topic? We were discussing the diffuculties women have reporting rape in islamic countries. Considering her testimony is only worth half of a man i'd say it's pretty relevant.

Grossly misinterpreted? That link and answer I posted was from Muhammad Al-Munajjid, an islamic scholar and iman of a mosque in Saudi Arabia. Are you saying that he has misinterpreted or I have?

I wonder if there is a correlation between STDs and rape. Certainly there is one between promiscuity, but wether promiscuity is positively correlated with rape?
AIDS rate in Arab countries isn't worse than in many Western countries. Had rape been such more prevalent wouldn't we see more AIDS cases? Or even if rape were 10-100x times more frequent it would still have been so much lower compares to promiscuity that it would not have made any statistically significant difference of on STD rate?

Probably - both. Just because he has spent longer studying it, does not mean he is right.

As witnessed by the fact that he is a Salafi imam - a movement which covers a massive, enormous, gigantic, 2.9% of Muslims globally.

In other words, you found the biggest prick from a small group of particularly big needles, in the small needle box, in the enormous haystack.

i thought the topic of the thread was what happened in Cologne?

It is rumoured that the ISIS "warriors" are riddled with STDs due to their treatment of female prisoners. Very sad for the prisoners through no fault of their own.

I hope the bastards suffer a particularly nasty bout of Necrotising Fasciitis, in the genital region. No less then they deserve.

2.9% of global Islam is approximately 45 million people.

Even if that somehow seems like a small number to some, Salafism is backed up by Saudi Arabia. What proportion of global Islamic money would that be?
Lots of non-salafist mosques host salafist preachers since that means getting money from Saudi backed sources.

I agree with the position that along with jail and possible deportation, aggressive integration is an important way to reduce the likelihood of such attacks over time. Meanwhile, salafist preachers try their best to undo the benefit of integration classes.

To ignore the influence of Salafist imams all over the globe is unwise.

I couldn't agree more.

The problem is that Salafism is backed up by Wahhabism. In particular, Wahhabism from Saudi Arabia.

That Saudi Arabia which has become rich from selling oil to the west, and which is one of the wests biggest allies.

the other 97.1% of muslims do not have the money to compete. Hence, theyre unable to stop Salafism creep.

I am aware anecdotally of different muslim communities in the north of England coming together to keep salafism and wahhabism out of their communities - to the extent where they pooled resources and fought them in the courts. Unfortunately, they rarely win, due to their inferior resources.

That being said, not all Salafists are Wahhabists. Keep that in mind. There are plenty of nutters in both groups, though.

Think of Salafism/wahhabism being akin to the Westboro Baptist Church, with the wealth of Saudi Arabia. They're the muslim version.

So if Muslims are the Uebermenschen of the world, then the Saudi Salafists are like the Uebermenschen of the Uebermenschen. As such, what they practice and believe could very well be relevant.

What the hell are you on about?

Who says they're the uebermenschen?

would you consider the Westboro baptist church as the uebermenschen of the uebermenschen of the christian world? Is what they believe relevant to other Christians?

Thought not.