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  #281  
Old 11.01.2016, 15:03
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

Okay, we'll take it up as a topic on another thread. Can't have you succeeding in trying to bury this Köln story now, could we?
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  #282  
Old 11.01.2016, 15:06
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

The sad truth about how Merkel's open-door policy and how it culminated in Köln...and how federal and local authorities go thru pains to hide it and censor peoples comments about it...

http://theweek.com/articles/598070/m...l-assault-gang

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What's worse is that Reker's advice highlights that Cologne has temporarily lost one of the heretofore distinguishing features of Western civilization: the general sense of social trust and solidarity that allows women to venture freely and safely in central city districts. Her code of conduct sounded like a European concession to Sharia law: women must be modest and accompanied by trusted guardians, or else.

And that's the attitude at the top as well. Germany this week finalized a deal with Facebook, Google, and Twitter to censor German "hate speech" about migrants and refugees on social media — though it's not clear at all where the line lies. Is a complaint about migrants enough to have your Facebook post taken down? Also, this week Merkel rejected a proposed cap of taking just 200,000 refugees in 2016.
The message to ordinary Germans is clear: You can't be allowed to say what you are thinking. And you probably shouldn't think it either.
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In September, the home of a 26-year-old Berlin man was raided by police, who confiscated his computer and phones after he had posted the tragic image of the dead 3-year-old Syrian boy whose body on a Turkish beach became a symbol of the refugee crisis. Along with the photo, he had posted: “We are not mourning, we are celebrating!”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...mepage%2Fstory
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  #283  
Old 11.01.2016, 15:20
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Rape reporting in the US:
68% unreported.
2% resulting in custodial sentence (98% go free)

And this is despite a rate over 1000x higher then in KSA.

Source: Justice Department, National Crime Victimization Survey: 2008-2012 (https://rainn.org/get-information/st...eporting-rates)
You should know better then to think i didnt do my research. You're a veteran, after all.

My source is Cornell Law School (Cornell University). Pretty robust, i'd say. Unless Ivy League universities are questionable sources.


http://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org...ountry=Bahrain

"Other Offenses Resulting in Death.
Calumniation – or falsely reporting information to judicial officials – is punishable by death if it results in a death sentence that is carried out. [3]

The following crimes, when they result in death, are also death-eligible: kidnapping, especially under aggravating circumstances; [4] rape, sexual assault or statutory rape, especially under aggravating circumstances; [5] assault; [6] arson; [7] the use of force in theft; [8] drug trafficking; [9] deliberately obstructing funerals or memorial services; [10] and certain crimes against property, transportation or agriculture under aggravating circumstances. [11]"

http://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org...?country=egypt

Rape Not Resulting in Death.
"Kidnapping of a female aggravated by rape (including statutory rape) is punishable by death. [10]"

http://www.deathpenaltyworldwide.org...+Arab+Emirates

"Rape Not Resulting in Death.
The forced copulation of a female or sodomy of a man is punishable by death. [18] Coercion is presumed if a child is under 14 years of age; this statutory rape (copulation of a female or sodomy of a man) is punishable by death. [19]"

I could go on, but im going for lunch. Let me know if Cornell Law School is not to be trusted.
Reports saying things aren't reported just tells me they have no idea and want to make a point. How can you possibly say 68% aren't reported - when they're not reported. Utter rubbish. I'm not saying that the US doesn't have it's problems with rape and marital abuse, but give me some definite figures not theories.

Bahrain - the key words there are "The following crimes, when they result in death, are also death-eligible: kidnapping, especially under aggravating circumstances; [4] rape, sexual assault or statutory rape, especially under aggravating circumstances; " So unless they also kill their victims no death penalty - gee, there's a surprise.

Egypt - So if the victim isn't kidnapped, but just raped on the street no death penalty. Obviously kidnapping is considered worse than rape. Or have I missed Egypt executing 200,000 rapists a year?

UAE - what their laws say and what they do seem to be widely divergent. I refer you again to this link:

http://www.muslimwomennews.com/n.php?nid=5983

All rapists - or alleged rapists I suppose I should say - acquitted.
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  #284  
Old 11.01.2016, 15:41
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Reports saying things aren't reported just tells me they have no idea and want to make a point. How can you possibly say 68% aren't reported - when they're not reported. Utter rubbish. I'm not saying that the US doesn't have it's problems with rape and marital abuse, but give me some definite figures not theories.

Bahrain - the key words there are "The following crimes, when they result in death, are also death-eligible: kidnapping, especially under aggravating circumstances; [4] rape, sexual assault or statutory rape, especially under aggravating circumstances; " So unless they also kill their victims no death penalty - gee, there's a surprise.

Egypt - So if the victim isn't kidnapped, but just raped on the street no death penalty. Obviously kidnapping is considered worse than rape. Or have I missed Egypt executing 200,000 rapists a year?

UAE - what their laws say and what they do seem to be widely divergent. I refer you again to this link:

http://www.muslimwomennews.com/n.php?nid=5983

All rapists - or alleged rapists I suppose I should say - acquitted.
By that logic you can claim that the unreported rate is anything from infinitesimally small to infinitesimally large. But since we know that the number is somewhere in between, we can only make educated estimates, based on the information to hand. Which is exactly what the RAINN (https://rainn.org/get-information/st...eporting-rates) did, from figures obtained from the DOJ.

are you saying the DOJ publishes 'utter rubbish'?

Re Bahrain - are you advocating the use of the death penalty when no death has occurred? And are you so simple to think its death penalty or nothing? Might i remind you that if no death has occurred, the minimum penalty is 7 years in jail:

http://www.emirates247.com/news/regi...01-30-1.348770

Re: Egypt - there is also this tidbit further down on that source:

'Rape Not Resulting in Death.
Kidnapping of a female aggravated by rape (including statutory rape) is punishable by death. [10]'

Kidnapping does not mean tying them up and taking them to an abandoned warehouse - it simply means taking them somewhere without consent - including the street - or anywhere where you take them for the purpose of rape.

UAE - In the case you mention, the poor girl retracted her accusation. As ridiculous as the whole situation is, you cannot prosecute men for rape when there is no accusation against them. I'm not saying they didn't do it (they clearly did) but they didn't get away with it because of the law - they got away because she withdrew her complaint. Not saying the law isn't an ass.
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  #285  
Old 11.01.2016, 15:45
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

Given that the rape victim is often punished, sometimes by death by the hands of her own family, doesn't deter the reporting of rape altogether? Duh?
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  #286  
Old 11.01.2016, 15:49
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Given that the rape victim is often punished, sometimes by death by the hands of her own family, doesn't deter the reporting of rape altogether? Duh?
The law doesn't demand that she is punished for being raped, does it? Duh?

Learn the difference between an oppressive culture and legally sanctioned oppression.
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Old 11.01.2016, 15:52
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

Its not about its laws, its about its cultures. It is the difference between what is said, and what is done, and what is done speaks volumes louder than what is said.
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Old 11.01.2016, 16:12
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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I wonder if there is a correlation between STDs and rape. Certainly there is one between promiscuity, but wether promiscuity is positively correlated with rape?
AIDS rate in Arab countries isn't worse than in many Western countries. Had rape been such more prevalent wouldn't we see more AIDS cases? Or even if rape were 10-100x times more frequent it would still have been so much lower compares to promiscuity that it would not have made any statistically significant difference of on STD rate?
Having sex with somebody who is HIV positive just once does not automatically get you AIDS. I also think there is a different probability or rate of transmission depending on whether it is the man infecting the woman or vice versa, or indeed between two men. I don't know how those probabilities compare though. But on the whole more men than women are HIV positive to a tune of about (from memory, and I may be wrong) 5:1. There may be different factors contributing to this but maybe men are more likely to get it than women. If this is the case, we may actually see more new infections among the rapists trhan among the victims, which would serve them right.
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  #289  
Old 11.01.2016, 16:17
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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By that logic you can claim that the unreported rate is anything from infinitesimally small to infinitesimally large. But since we know that the number is somewhere in between, we can only make educated estimates, based on the information to hand. Which is exactly what the RAINN (https://rainn.org/get-information/st...eporting-rates) did, from figures obtained from the DOJ.

are you saying the DOJ publishes 'utter rubbish'?

Re Bahrain - are you advocating the use of the death penalty when no death has occurred? And are you so simple to think its death penalty or nothing? Might i remind you that if no death has occurred, the minimum penalty is 7 years in jail:

http://www.emirates247.com/news/regi...01-30-1.348770

Re: Egypt - there is also this tidbit further down on that source:

'Rape Not Resulting in Death.
Kidnapping of a female aggravated by rape (including statutory rape) is punishable by death. [10]'

Kidnapping does not mean tying them up and taking them to an abandoned warehouse - it simply means taking them somewhere without consent - including the street - or anywhere where you take them for the purpose of rape.

UAE - In the case you mention, the poor girl retracted her accusation. As ridiculous as the whole situation is, you cannot prosecute men for rape when there is no accusation against them. I'm not saying they didn't do it (they clearly did) but they didn't get away with it because of the law - they got away because she withdrew her complaint. Not saying the law isn't an ass.
Yes, of course she withdrew her complaint. Wouldn't you if you were threatened with being lashed and sent to jail?

"A week later, during the second hearing, the woman retracted her statement, reportedly to avoid lashes and a jail sentence for extramarital sex. She said that she was beaten by her brother after he found out that she had been speaking to men, and that as a result, she decided to report that she had been raped."

Didn't help though.

"On 13 June, the Abu Dhabi criminal court sentenced both the woman and her 19-year-old friend to one year in prison for engaging in consensual sex."

And of course, there's no arguing this logic:

"The prosecutor argued that the fact that she went for a drive with a man was sufficient proof that she consented to having sex."

Bahrain - why not death penalty? Poor girls will likely end up dead via an honor killing, so why not have men suffer the same fate. And frankly the law isn't having much effect in stopping rape is it? So let's go with physical castration if you don't like the death penalty idea.

As far as I know in neither Egypt during the Arab Spring or in Cologne were the women taken anywhere, they were simply raped/assaulted where they stood.

What information? No reports means no info to work with, just guess work. And I wouldn't be surprised if the DoJ does publish utter rubbish. Why should it be any different from the rest of the US agencies?
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  #290  
Old 11.01.2016, 16:59
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Yes, of course she withdrew her complaint. Wouldn't you if you were threatened with being lashed and sent to jail?
Well, he's avoided answering this question multiple times. It seems that he genuinely believes that this practice does not exist or that it occurs so infrequently that it is not worth referencing (Liberal denial)
That, or he believes that the threat of death for reporting a rape is not a deterrent for most women (Lack of common sense)
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  #291  
Old 11.01.2016, 17:02
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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As far as I know in neither Egypt during the Arab Spring or in Cologne were the women taken anywhere, they were simply raped/assaulted where they stood.
I remember reading about a British journalist who was there during Arab spring, the case was very publicised, same as the one of an American journalist
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/me...k-7895960.html
http://www.news.com.au/world/north-a...149a0eeddd3faa
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  #292  
Old 11.01.2016, 17:16
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Yes, of course she withdrew her complaint. Wouldn't you if you were threatened with being lashed and sent to jail?

"A week later, during the second hearing, the woman retracted her statement, reportedly to avoid lashes and a jail sentence for extramarital sex. She said that she was beaten by her brother after he found out that she had been speaking to men, and that as a result, she decided to report that she had been raped."

Didn't help though.

"On 13 June, the Abu Dhabi criminal court sentenced both the woman and her 19-year-old friend to one year in prison for engaging in consensual sex."

And of course, there's no arguing this logic:

"The prosecutor argued that the fact that she went for a drive with a man was sufficient proof that she consented to having sex."

Bahrain - why not death penalty? Poor girls will likely end up dead via an honor killing, so why not have men suffer the same fate. And frankly the law isn't having much effect in stopping rape is it? So let's go with physical castration if you don't like the death penalty idea.

As far as I know in neither Egypt during the Arab Spring or in Cologne were the women taken anywhere, they were simply raped/assaulted where they stood.

What information? No reports means no info to work with, just guess work. And I wouldn't be surprised if the DoJ does publish utter rubbish. Why should it be any different from the rest of the US agencies?

I remember this case.


She was punished after she withdrew her complaint, not before.
The links on the website you provide are all dead.


In other words, she confessed to pre-marital sex as rape, for which she would have received no punishment. But she then withdrew the rape complaint, after admitting pre marital sex.


I don't know exactly what happened in that car (and, btw, neither do you) but it was not simply a case of being punished for being raped. Again, if memory serves me right, forensic tests proved that she had been scratched and hit, but the rape kit evidence was inconclusive. If I also recall correctly, she wasn't punished for this particular instance; under interrogation (and I'm not saying it was fair) she admitted to prostitution, and was charged for that.


But you know best, right?


PS I find it funny that you bring up a case from 6 years ago as evidence of the place today.
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  #293  
Old 11.01.2016, 17:23
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

Just learned there is a name for it: Taharrush gamea

There are some awful videos of it on youtube from Tahrir square. It looks like a freaking zombie attack. Very disturbing and nasty. I think every German should be forced to watch it.
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  #294  
Old 11.01.2016, 17:23
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Yes, of course she withdrew her complaint. Wouldn't you if you were threatened with being lashed and sent to jail?

"A week later, during the second hearing, the woman retracted her statement, reportedly to avoid lashes and a jail sentence for extramarital sex. She said that she was beaten by her brother after he found out that she had been speaking to men, and that as a result, she decided to report that she had been raped."

Didn't help though.

"On 13 June, the Abu Dhabi criminal court sentenced both the woman and her 19-year-old friend to one year in prison for engaging in consensual sex."

And of course, there's no arguing this logic:

"The prosecutor argued that the fact that she went for a drive with a man was sufficient proof that she consented to having sex."

Bahrain - why not death penalty? Poor girls will likely end up dead via an honor killing, so why not have men suffer the same fate. And frankly the law isn't having much effect in stopping rape is it? So let's go with physical castration if you don't like the death penalty idea.

As far as I know in neither Egypt during the Arab Spring or in Cologne were the women taken anywhere, they were simply raped/assaulted where they stood.

What information? No reports means no info to work with, just guess work. And I wouldn't be surprised if the DoJ does publish utter rubbish. Why should it be any different from the rest of the US agencies?

By the same logic I could argue that all rapes in KSA are reported and 99.999% of rapes in US are not. Don't be so dumb.


Except the chances of an honour killing are very small - see above where somebody else tried that line already. Honour killing aren't as big a thing in the arab world as they are in the south Asian word (india/Pakistan area).


And I'm aware of assault during the Egypt riots, but the key word, which you seem to have both inferred and missed in the same post is that these were riots - you cant really expect that there will be significant levels of law-abiding going on, nor can you expect that the laws designed to protect women in an orderly society would really be adhered to when there is a revolution going on. Duh. That being said, i do not remember any complaints on EF when it was being done with the full support of your respective governments - everyone seemed really happy that the revolution was taking place. This is the reality of a revolution - innocent people end up killed and raped. were you so naive to think all revolutions were peaceful affairs, concocted around Earl Grey Tea and maccaroons?
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  #295  
Old 11.01.2016, 17:26
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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There are some awful videos of it on youtube from Tahrir square. It looks like a freaking zombie attack. Very disturbing and nasty. I think every German should be forced to watch it.
Really?

That's like saying every American mother should watch videos of American children and teenagers blowing their own or their siblings brains out with the family firearms because that has happened more than once.
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  #296  
Old 11.01.2016, 17:31
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Really?

That's like saying every American mother should watch videos of American children and teenagers blowing their own or their siblings brains out with the family firearms because that has happened more than once.
But, But, But...its completely different!!!!!!!!!!

Owning a gun is a consteechoshunal Right, that the Gubbermint is trying to take away!!!!!

oh no, wait, its just more nonsense from Phos.
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Old 11.01.2016, 17:32
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Except the chances of an honour killing are very small - see above where somebody else tried that line already. Honour killing aren't as big a thing in the arab world as they are in the south Asian word (india/Pakistan area).
Resolution 1327 (2003) of the Council of Europe states that:

"The Assembly notes that whilst so-called “honour crimes” emanate from cultural and not religious roots and are perpetrated worldwide (mainly in patriarchal societies or communities), the majority of reported cases in Europe have been amongst Muslim or migrant Muslim communities (although Islam itself does not support the death penalty for honour-related misconduct)."

According to the UN in 2002:

The report of the Special Rapporteur... concerning cultural practices in the family that are violent towards women (E/CN.4/2002/83), indicated that honour killings had been reported in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, the Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey, Yemen, and other Mediterranean and Persian Gulf countries, and that they had also taken place in western countries such as France, Germany and the United Kingdom, within migrant communities.

''Although honor killings are often associated with the Asian continent, especially the Middle East and South Asia, they occur all over the world.In 2000, the United Nations estimated that 5,000 women were victims of honor killings each year. According to BBC, "Women's advocacy groups, however, suspect that more than 20,000 women are killed worldwide each year."
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Old 11.01.2016, 17:35
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

Yeah, you need to rebut with something more on topic, substantial and some intelligence to it in order for it be worth responding to.

The covering up of such stories, widely reported elsewhere, has resurfaced in Sweden:
Swedish Police Under Investigation for Sexual Assault Cover Up

This hopefully puts an end to the practice of covering up such crimes for political purposes, as politics should not be the function of law enforcement. They are suppose to be keeping the public safe and secure.
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  #299  
Old 11.01.2016, 17:41
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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And I'm aware of assault during the Egypt riots, but the key word, which you seem to have both inferred and missed in the same post is that these were riots - you cant really expect that there will be significant levels of law-abiding going on, nor can you expect that the laws designed to protect women in an orderly society would really be adhered to when there is a revolution going on. Duh.
There is also another view on those assaults
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The Logan rape has always been portrayed as another unfortunate byproduct of mob violence. In fact, it was much more than that. It was a warning shot fired by men whose political beliefs are founded on a common pillar: Women must stay out of the public square.
Quote:
When Egyptians overthrew the dictator, the Muslim Brotherhood took advantage of public hatred of the dictator to ally him with Western progressive ideals, including gender equality. Out went the nongovernmental organizations that worked to make divorce easier and inheritance laws fairer. In came the thugs who stripped and beat women in the streets.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/03/op...tahrir-square/
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Old 11.01.2016, 17:58
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Resolution 1327 (2003) of the Council of Europe states that:

"The Assembly notes that whilst so-called “honour crimes” emanate from cultural and not religious roots and are perpetrated worldwide (mainly in patriarchal societies or communities), the majority of reported cases in Europe have been amongst Muslim or migrant Muslim communities (although Islam itself does not support the death penalty for honour-related misconduct)."

According to the UN in 2002:

The report of the Special Rapporteur... concerning cultural practices in the family that are violent towards women (E/CN.4/2002/83), indicated that honour killings had been reported in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, the Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey, Yemen, and other Mediterranean and Persian Gulf countries, and that they had also taken place in western countries such as France, Germany and the United Kingdom, within migrant communities.

''Although honor killings are often associated with the Asian continent, especially the Middle East and South Asia, they occur all over the world.In 2000, the United Nations estimated that 5,000 women were victims of honor killings each year. According to BBC, "Women's advocacy groups, however, suspect that more than 20,000 women are killed worldwide each year."
So, the problem on honour killings is imported, and there is no religious backing for it.

Or, in other words, its a cultural thing and not a religious thing. I'm confused which side you're on here. i thought you were against me?


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There is also another view on those assaults

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/03/op...tahrir-square/
The second quote - from CNN - seems to clarify that the revolution made sexual crime easier. Exactly what i said earlier.

I'm really confused which side you're on.

Quote from your source:

Quote:
Dina Zakaria, an Egyptian journalist, reported that the men who raped the Dutch journalist last week called themselves "revolutionists." That label should surprise no one.


This was the revolution the west supported, by the way. These are the people we wanted in power there. Pat yourselves on the back.
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