I'm not against you. I'm against misinformation/outright lies.

You said the chances of honor killing are very small. 5,000 or 20,000, either way I think that is too high a number to define as small. You may consider that number insignificant, I do not.

You also said they are not as big of a thing in the Arab world. Besides your obvious lack of geographical knowledge (referring to your earlier post) I have just presented evidence that it is in fact a big thing in Asia, which includes the Middle East!

Did I say that it came from islam? No, in fact my post said that it was actually against islamic teaching. So yes I agree it is a cultural thing. It just seems that this certain cultural characteristic occurs more frequently in islamic lands. And these lands are where the majority of the 'refugees' are coming from.

That is the issue. Not whether this mentality comes from religion or culture, the fact that this mentality exists. And this mentality just happens to prevail in certain lands whose people are migrating en masse to Europe.

It seems we need to start a new thread that deals with all violent cultural behaviour that has nothing to do with Islam as a belief system, but it is widely spread in those muslim communities, even when these communities migrate to greener pastures.

Do honor killings happen across (their) society independent of religion?

Anyone wants to start a thread with all things great (for everybody not just for a subset) in Islamic or muslim communities? I nominate J2488 to start, then maybe Castro. Not picking on you at all, but you seem to have a more positive view on the topic.

20,000 is small when compared to, for example the number of muslims in the world, or even the number of people in the middle east. Don't try to make it sound like I said it was a small number (so much for not misleading people!). I said that it is too small to be accountable for the number of non-reported rapes in KSA, as suggested by another user. Nice try, sunshine.

You contradict yourself in the same paragraph.

Asia includes the middle east from a geological perspective. But, since this whole conversation is about, as you put it, 'mentality' by which you really mean culture they most certainly are not the same thing. Arabic culture is vastly different to indian culture, which itself is nothing like Chinese culture, which is nothing like Japanese culture and so on and so on...
Again, so much for not misleading.

You do know the difference between culture and religion, don't you? Because if you did, you'd also be in a position where you could understand that this misogynistic culture was present in every patriarchal society in the world, including that in Europe. And, were you so inclined, you could also research that one of the first edicts passed by Mohammed, if you believe in him, is that female children and male children are to be considered equal. This was before the birth of islam, where in Arabic culture it was not uncommon for female newborns to be disowned, or worse. This culture does not occur in muslim countries; rather Islam happens in countries with this culture.

read back above (near the beginning) where we addressed the issue of refugees bringing this culture with them. Don't be lazy and only read the last two pages. There is a reason this conversation has moved on from blaming the refugees for every ill in Europe.

By the way, has anyone actually equated Islam with rape, other than you? I don't think so. As far as I see, its about the recent influx of migrants.

We are in agreement then.
Yeah, but Morsi was democratically elected.

Was I really misleading? Or justr proving your statement was not entirely true?

Yes you are entirely correct. But the Middle East is in Asia, no matter what way you spin it. What is your point?

Again, I agree with you. You are correct. When Islam first began it promoted womens rights which were unheard of at that time. Problem is, these rights have then pretty much stayed the same. A long time ago Islam set a new standard for womens rights in Arabia. But over the next 1400 years many other civilizations adopted and expanded upon these rights whilst Islam remained in the dark ages. What is your point?

About "When Islam first began it promoted womens rights which were unheard of at that time. Problem is, these rights have then pretty much stayed the same"
Are you sure?


When did the idea of clothing women in tent like clothing start? In Muhammad's time or a hundred years later?


When did seclusion start? (Seclusion involved limiting women to the company of other women and close male relatives in their home or confining them in separate female living quarters)


In the days of Muhammad, women performed the morning prayer at the mosque, although they were required to line up in rows behind the men.
By about 700, Muslim religious authorities completely banned women from mosques.


Muhammad's wife A'ishah was an important source of the hadith. Today, how many women teach men about Islam?

So you're saying womens rights actually decreased and got worse as islam evolved? You're probably right, I don't doubt you.

My point was that although Islam was a revolution for womens rights at the time in Arabia, that was 1400 years ago and is now quite outdated by todays standard. Now you're informing me they actually got worse instead of improving? OK, point taken.

What has this got to do with NYE at Köln? Well, some people are wondering what would posess these men to act like this and treat women like animals?
I'm suggesting it's possible that alot of these men have their worldview and culture shaped by women rights from the seventh century.

Now reports that Swedish police didn't report similar incidents at a music festival during 2014 and 2015. 200 people ejected from the 2015 event.

"Police in the Swedish capital Stockholm have launched an internal investigation into accusations that the force covered up widespread sexual assaults by mostly migrant youths at a music festival.

The organisers of the festival, which is held outdoors at Kungstradgarden Square in central Stockholm, told the newspaper that there had been cases of sexual harassment every year, but that beginning in 2014 groups of boys and young men began to work the crowds together.

According to Peter Agren, who led the police operation at the festival this summer, the controversy over welcoming refugees and migrants to the country may have contributed to a reluctance to publicise the issue.

"Sometimes we do not really say how things are because we believe it may play into the hands of the Sweden Democrats," Mr Agren told Dagens Nyheter, referring to Sweden's right-wing anti-immigration party.

Mr Gyllander also conceded that the issue may have been a factor. He said: "These days, the level of discussion is very harsh, and it's very aggressive when it comes to discussing the matter of refugees and foreigners. I think that all of us are very careful how we express ourselves."

But he denied there had been any kind of cover up.

Stefan Lofven, Sweden's centre-left prime minister, called the incident "a double betrayal" for the women assaulted.

"We shall not close our eyes and look away. We need to deal with such a serious problem," Mr Lofven told Expressen newspaper.

At a press conference on Monday, national police commissioner Dan Eliasson said the force's conduct would be internally investigated."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35285086

Not sure what you're trying get at here?

They do the same things in Islamic communities as they do in other communities.

I could ask you about the Haredi Jewish communities in the U.S. where males and females are expected to walk on opposite sides of the road lest they even make eye contact.
And in other Haredi Jewish communities where the children aren't allowed to play any sport.

I wonder if the Köln attacks will prove the turning point in Germany?

Chemtrails and Tinfoil hat time, but one could think that chaos is deliberately being created by Europe's politicians in order to hurry through an EU police force or army.

Here's some footage from New Year's Eve, motive doesn't look much like theft to me.



Bild also reporting about how it is for the police at the moment. Lest we forget, these hypocritical shites were also the ones welcoming the very people they're now chastising just a few short months ago.

Herr Goebbels, Herr Goebbels, Ze Reichstag it iz burnink.

Wott? Alreddy?

Bild is pretty much the low point of journalism, even giving ZDF a run for its money. I guess it was imposed on Germany by the Brits in 1945 to make Daily Mail readers seem intelligent.

That sounds so patronizing.



On topic:
As far as I am concerned I would rather wait for police and whoever is responsible for investigating these assaults to come up with their conclusions re. what has happened on that night.
Everything else is just speculating.

Well that's kinda the German mentality sadly... they were fed a line that these people would be grateful for being "rescued" - now they are finally allowed to speak the truth they realise that they have been had by their Chancellor.... interesting that the police report says that Munich is experiencing a massive crime wave.... particularly the bit about the area around the Hauptbahnhof tallies exactly with what my female friends in Munich are telling me....

The following two lines are by far the worst :

so the police are not permitted to do their job by their superiors... so much for Maziere's report saying that their crime rates are no different from the natives...

3 teenage Syrian lads in trouble for sexually harassing girls in Michaelibad in Munich yesterday... one in trouble for rape..
http://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de/...ccead9391.html

The politicization of law enforcement is fundamentally corruption. They should not be a tool used by politicians to advance their hidden agendas. They really should not have discretion over what they choose to enforce or not enforce, especially when there is a victim. Otherwise, it justifies vigilantism and society begins to break down, which is starting to manifest in Germany.

You're too generous Phos. In my book its totalitarianism. The police, the press, and all of officialdom marching in unison to protect the government and hide their incompetence and denigrate anybody who dares speak out.

Reminds me of an old DDR joke.

A Stasi agent walks into a bar and speaks to a guy who's having a beer

What do you think of our beloved leader, Erich Honnecker?

Why? The same as you of course.

In that case, you're under arrest.

I find left-wing liberals actually savor "totalitarianism" when they believe it is in their favor. I figure "corruption" might better help them get indigestion. Its a good time to call out their hipocrisy.

Its amusing how silent the left is on this topic. They are somewhat stumped without a script to go on.

One thing this shows, they aren't about the rule of law.

The groping and rapes by Africans and Arabs is abhorrent, but let us not forget that Japanese and Indian women suffer every day in the crowded commuter trains. Different cultures, but the same result.

Cetainly there are parts of the left whose wet dream is to live in a Stalinesque dictatorship, and there is noithing that can happen that will ever make them change their view. But I do believe there are also plenty of decent people on the left who do believe in the rule of law, of constitutionality and of fairness. The people in this category I've talked to lately seem to be chiefly on autopilot, blindly repeating the script that the media is feeding them. But I've also noticed some individuals gradually coming over to my point of view, including one person who used to be pretty far left. She's very much into LGBT rights and women's rights and I explained to here that these things are at risk and I think this made her change her views (over time). It is important to talk to people and try and open their minds and show them that left wing values are at risk here too.