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  #461  
Old 15.01.2016, 10:36
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

Excellent piece here, saying that rather than looking at "their" culture, we should perhaps rather be looking at ours.

This paragraph in particular:

"Partly this unwillingness to ‘dare to say how things really are’ is driven by a fear of populist far-right parties — like the Sweden Democrats — and of the plebs who vote for them. That is, it is motored by its own prejudices. This self-silencing presents itself as a good, progressive urge to protect immigrants from the prejudicial views and behaviour of the natives, yet underpinning it is an even darker prejudice which views Germany’s or Sweden’s or Britain’s own masses as so volatile, so hateful, that they cannot possibly be allowed to know ‘how things really are’. Officials lie, or at least hide the truth, in order to keep in check the tempers of the populace: a species of tyranny that echoes the self-aggrandising lies told in Maoist China about food production to a population that didn’t have enough to eat."

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...3#.VpirtPkrKM9
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  #462  
Old 15.01.2016, 10:37
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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you can't deport people back to a war zone...
Siberia isn't a war zone, nor is Greenland!

The EU best make friends with Putin.

Tom
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  #463  
Old 15.01.2016, 10:38
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Not necessarily, but in how it is practiced, they are. Do we need to iterate through examples?
I do need that unfortunately, yes.

I want to know


How is Islam one social order?
How is Islam one legal system?
How is Islam one community?
How is Islam one personal identity?
How is Islam one political movement?
How is Islam one revolutionary movement?
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  #464  
Old 15.01.2016, 10:40
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Nope. Protestantism is what gave rise to Christian fundamentalism. Look up Calvinism in apartheid South Africa for a start.
The main point is that it was reformed. Countries where Christianity is dominant don't take the religion hard-core into their daily lives like many in the Muslim world do. You can draw an insulting picture of Jesus in EU without fear of death. Go to any ME country and draw a picture of Muhammad and count the minutes you have left. Look at Charlie Hebdo. There's an abundance of people ready to kill/die for Islam. Way too many people who are taking violent interpretations of the religion. There needs to be a change there.
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  #465  
Old 15.01.2016, 10:41
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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This has been made even in my country when we received Armenian refugees more than 100 of years ago. The press made public the conditions they agreed to respect, basically it was a pledge that they will be loyal and will respect the laws of the new country. Result? One of the most respected ethnic&cultural group (who also preserved their culture) from back home, until today.
What Germany did is beyond stupidity....
I believe they also used social contracts in Spain upon entering the country. Now, if Germany were to implement it, and stipulate deportation upon disrespect of its laws, then they wouldn't have all these legal roadblocks today keeping them from addressing this problem.

But I imagine some leftists moaned about infringement of the applicants' human rights.
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  #466  
Old 15.01.2016, 10:45
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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I do need that unfortunately, yes.

I want to know

How is Islam one social order?
How is Islam one legal system?
How is Islam one community?
How is Islam one personal identity?
How is Islam one political movement?
How is Islam one revolutionary movement?
I didn't imply a quantity of 1 in it, you did. There are multiple expressions of all these things, of the same single sources; Quran, Mohammad, and Allah. The expressions of them differ from one sub-culture to the next. Because of that, it does fit the definition of a single culture.

Otherwise, that is like saying there is no Germanic culture, there are only Bavarians, Prussians, Tyrolians, etc., etc.
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  #467  
Old 15.01.2016, 10:47
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Getting now to the facts. Is Europe suddenly discovering rape and sexual assaults on 31 Dec 2015? Is it also a European phenomenon? To answer that there is an excellent study by the EU published in 2014 about violence against women in EU (it involved the interviewing of 42'000 women). There are several relevant results from that study, but the main point I would like to raise is the following: 33% of women in Europe aged 15 and more experienced physical/sexual violence by a parter or non-partner.
It's very interesting to look at the detailed results per country:
- Denmark: 52% of women aged 15 & more experienced physical/sexual violence by partner or non partner.
- Finland: 47%
- Sweden: 46%
- Netherlands: 45%
- France: 44%
- UK: 44%
- Latvia: 39%
- Germany: 35%

Map of results in the attachment. Full report and data can be obtained at the following EU website
You might want to look into how many of these rapes are in Sweden etc. are actually by "immigrants"...
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  #468  
Old 15.01.2016, 10:47
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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The main point is that it was reformed.
But not in a way that give rise to greater freedom or tolerance.

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Countries where Christianity is dominant don't take the religion hard-core into their daily lives like many in the Muslim world do.
That's true a lot of the time but Christianity isn't the cause. Remember that now that women in Saudi can vote (for whatever good that does in a monarchy), the Vatican is the only country left where women cannot. It's Europe and other countries spawned from European colonialism, that gave many countries their liberty. But witness South American countries and many of their laws on homosexuality and abortion.



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You can draw an insulting picture of Jesus in EU without fear of death.
Go to any ME country and draw a picture of Muhammad and count the minutes you have left.
I wonder how far you'll get insulting the Church in Russia? Oh wait....you get shipped off to Siberia, we know that already.



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There's an abundance of people ready to kill/die for Islam.
And if it weren't Islam, they'd be willing to kill/die for something else. That's what happens when you're poor and desperate and without power and the local gang comes round to your village and offers you something to belong to and a means of attaining power.
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  #469  
Old 15.01.2016, 10:48
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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I didn't imply a quantity of 1 in it, you did.
No, commonality implies a quantity of 1. Without that, Islam doesn't share what you imply it does, rather there's diversity within it which was my point.
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  #470  
Old 15.01.2016, 10:51
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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And if it weren't Islam, they'd be willing to kill/die for something else. That's what happens when you're poor and desperate and without power and the local gang comes round to your village and offers you something to belong to and a means of attaining power.

I do believe this is as close as we can get to this issue, as it is about power and powerlessness. All of it, from terrorism to abusing weaker women.
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  #471  
Old 15.01.2016, 10:54
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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I do believe this is as close as we can get to this issue, as it is about power and powerlessness. All of it, from terrorism to abusing weaker women.
Indeed. No material difference between these two. Ideology/religion is just a cover.



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  #472  
Old 15.01.2016, 10:55
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

And in Austria now too...

http://www.thelocal.at/20160115/scho...asylum-seekers
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  #473  
Old 15.01.2016, 11:03
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Indeed. No material difference between these two. Ideology/religion is just a cover.
The sexual assaults are just a manifestation and symptom of a deeper power struggle. What we are seeing here is widespread and nascent social disorder. Other symptoms can easily arise from this same struggle.

Ironically, as Germany allowed a multitude of people with their own power ideology into the country, it has also republished the germanic handbook for their own power ideology, the german jihadist tome - Mein Kampf.

This is not headed in the right direction folks.
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  #474  
Old 15.01.2016, 11:07
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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I wonder how far you'll get insulting the Church in Russia? Oh wait....you get shipped off to Siberia, we know that already.
Poor analogy. If you insult the church in Russia, you won't get killed in the streets by gangs of angry people, the way it happens often in the ME. In the USSR there wasn't any religion even allowed, so you could insult the church all you wanted since it didn't exist The father of Communism himself said "Religion is the opium of the people", if that's not an insult to the church, then I don't know what is


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And if it weren't Islam, they'd be willing to kill/die for something else. That's what happens when you're poor and desperate and without power and the local gang comes round to your village and offers you something to belong to and a means of attaining power.
I agree there, the jihadists are based on society/culture with a heavy does of hard-core Islam at the center.
...but how does this apply to the mistreatment of women in the ME? Which is what this topic is about...
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  #475  
Old 15.01.2016, 11:08
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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The EU best make friends with Putin.
That is one possible solution for this mess. Germany can pick a fight with Putin, get invaded, then Putin cleans up Germany. Problem solved, and Merkel gets her DDR back.
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  #476  
Old 15.01.2016, 11:13
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

It's just the tip of the iceberg, we are going to see hundreds more stories crawling out of the woodwork as now victims feel they are able to speak up, and police actually take the reports seriously.

The next few months will see a lot of related activity and some interesting shifts in public and government sentiment.

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I agree there, the jihadists are based on society/culture with a heavy does of hard-core Islam at the center.
...but how does this apply to the mistreatment of women in the ME? Which is what this topic is about...
twenty was clearly attempting to shift the context of the discussion and deflect away from the core issues, not sure why but definitely not worth wasting time debating imo.
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Old 15.01.2016, 11:17
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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You might want to look into how many of these rapes are in Sweden etc. are actually by "immigrants"...
It's in the report page 188 & 189. It's worth reading if you really care about the topic in general.
They have defined 4 categories: citizens who lived all their lives in the country, citizens living more than 30years in the country, citizens living less than 30y in the country and non-citizens of the country. According to the study: "The results indicate relatively small differences between the respondents based on the four categories as listed above and their experiences of various forms of violence" (page 188). Remember that this is based on 42'000 data points across Europe in 2014-2014 before refugee wave.
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  #478  
Old 15.01.2016, 11:22
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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twenty was clearly attempting to shift the context of the discussion and deflect away from the core issues, not sure why but definitely not worth wasting time debating imo.
Not at all but I'm not shocked you don't want to "waste time debating". Not when you've already admitted you hate Islam - I don't know how you can come back from that to form a considered opinion to be honest.
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  #479  
Old 15.01.2016, 11:23
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

The government's response to all this? Toughen imaginary deportation laws that can't even be applied. Who is buying any of that?

Meanwhile, political knives are starting to come out against Merkel across the board. Looks like the anatomy of a Chancellor's overthrow.
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Old 15.01.2016, 11:24
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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I do believe this is as close as we can get to this issue, as it is about power and powerlessness. All of it, from terrorism to abusing weaker women.
Now I know Phos has made controversial posts about this topic but people really need to realize that this is the core issue. Saying that Islam is the cause is analogous to saying that gasoline is to blame when an arsonist burns down a house. Gas burns exceptionally well, what more - it is specifically made to burn! Clearly it is a bad idea to distribute gas and it should just be banned.

Yes, Islam is a convenient excuse, but is not the root cause. The Koran and Islam contain some really bad stuff (along with good too), but alone they are just ideas. It takes a person to be desperate and hopeless enough to genuinely believe that those ideas are real and worth murdering for.

A person who is content with life, has a future to look forward to and is surrounded by people he cares for and values; that person is very unlikely to harbor hate for anyone.

A person with no education, who grew up in a region ravaged by an endless succession of power hungry warlords, streets filled with rubble from the bombs and walls pockmarked by bullets. The blood of their neighbors, their friends, their daughters and their mothers spilled indiscriminately and without mercy. A child who had to see his father being killed in the streets because he believed in the wrong thing, a mother who had to see their child being shredded to bits by a suicide bomber. At that point, any ideology that can find a convenient enemy will work. It is a positive feedback loop that reinforces the notion that beliefs are important enough to kill and die for.

I'm not saying we should accept all the refugees. On the contrary, I think there should be stringent controls and quotas. There should be strict rules on the behavior of the refugees and any criminal behavior should be swiftly punished with deportation. However, to think that this is an Islam vs. West issue is shortsighted. It is a failing of the overly politically correct European mindset and politicians without a semblance of a spine. Most of all though, it is the failing of the Western foreign policy that allowed the situation in the Middle East to deteriorate to this level. Perhaps it was deliberate, perhaps not, but it certainly didn't happen in a vacuum.
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