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  #1241  
Old 28.07.2016, 10:45
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Not sorry to disappoint you, but these were estimates. Estimates by necessity are based on a certain scenario (in other words, an educated guess), and at least in this case they included double-counts (confirmed by FRONTEX).

After all, nobody can possibly know during the year how many will have come by the end of the same year.
You don't disappoint, you've just confirmed my point that the data isn't accurate and no one has a clue who has entered Germany.
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  #1242  
Old 28.07.2016, 10:46
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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This data isn't accurate. 1.1 million asylum seekers registered in Germany alone in 2015.
LOL, yes the official statistics by the EU must be wrong - another conspiracy!!
I am sure the statistics provided by the Daily Mail or the Sun are inherently more accurate

Now where did I store my tinfoil hat.
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  #1243  
Old 28.07.2016, 10:49
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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LOL, yes the official statistics by the EU must be wrong - another conspiracy!!
I am sure the statistics provided by the Daily Mail or the Sun are inherently more accurate

Now where did I store my tinfoil hat.
I didn't say the wrong, I just said they weren't accurate in that they don't give the full picture. It's well known that over a million asylum seekers entered Germany alone in 2015. Over double the figure given in this data.
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Old 28.07.2016, 10:51
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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I didn't say the wrong, I just said they weren't accurate in that they don't give the full picture. It's well known that over a million asylum seekers entered Germany alone in 2015. Over double the figure given in this data.
Since you argue that the EU is officially lying,
please show your "well known"source.
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  #1245  
Old 28.07.2016, 10:54
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Since you argue that the EU is officially lying,
please show your "well known"source.
Where have I said they are lying? For the 476,510 asylum applications that they have accounted for I'm sure the data is accurate. That just leaves the remaining 615,384 which isn't included in this table.

1,091,894 arrivals registered as asylum seekers in Germany in 2015. Even taking into account double entries for registrations, it's way off the number the EU has data for.

http://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Pr...mber-2015.html

Last edited by Loz1983; 28.07.2016 at 11:05.
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  #1246  
Old 28.07.2016, 11:44
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Where have I said they are lying? For the 476,510 asylum applications that they have accounted for I'm sure the data is accurate. That just leaves the remaining 615,384 which isn't included in this table.

1,091,894 arrivals registered as asylum seekers in Germany in 2015. Even taking into account double entries for registrations, it's way off the number the EU has data for.

http://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Pr...mber-2015.html
According to the link you posted there were in 2015, a total of 476 649 formal applications for asylum in Germany.
According to the EU link I posted there were 476,510 formal applications for asylum in Germany.

"1,091,894 arrivals registered as asylum seekers in Germany in 2015." This number comes from the EASY system which is known to be inaccurate and also does not record the numbers refugees who move on from Germany to other countries. There were around a third of a million officially registered asylum seekers in Sweden, Hungary, Denmark, Netherlands and Austria some (all, none) may have passed through Germany.

EASY does not register people as asylum seekers but simply keeps count of the number of people who say they plan to apply for asylum.

EASY also does not record personal data like, name, age, sex && so it is impossible to correlate EASY numbers with other databases!
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  #1247  
Old 28.07.2016, 11:55
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

Who cares? The point remains the same. The EU data isn't complete and therefore doesn't provide an accurate picture. Are you saying that a million people didn't enter Germany last year seeking asylum? The German government themselves even admit this!

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-proc...016/a-19245582
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  #1248  
Old 28.07.2016, 12:07
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Who cares? The point remains the same. The EU data isn't complete and therefore doesn't provide an accurate picture. Are you saying that a million people didn't enter Germany last year seeking asylum? The German government themselves even admit this!

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-proc...016/a-19245582
It's all a big right-wing disinformation campaign designed to make immigrants look bad.

It has already been made abundantly clear that all this never happened.

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  #1249  
Old 28.07.2016, 12:58
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Who cares? The point remains the same. The EU data isn't complete and therefore doesn't provide an accurate picture. Are you saying that a million people didn't enter Germany last year seeking asylum? The German government themselves even admit this!

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-to-proc...016/a-19245582
Do you even read the links you post?

Hint: You should.
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  #1250  
Old 28.07.2016, 13:05
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Do you even read the links you post?

Hint: You should.
You mean the part about, "Germany took in some 1.1 million migrants in 2015 - the largest influx since World War II. However, it can often take months before new arrivals can formally apply for asylum."?
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  #1251  
Old 28.07.2016, 13:10
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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It's all a big right-wing disinformation campaign designed to make immigrants look bad.

It has already been made abundantly clear that all this never happened.

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  #1252  
Old 28.07.2016, 13:26
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Those safe areas exist but some people are living there for (already) years...in a way it's like prison. I guess they are fed up with putting their lives on hold and that's why they risk coming over to Europe. It's not that difficult to understand that.
Wouldn't you try to escape this?
It's not difficult to understand what exactly? That they're no longer welcome in Europe as the situation has gotten out of control? Hungary's Orban is blocking them form coming in, and making a lot of noise about it.. and Austria, who were once very supportive, have changed their tune. EU have arranged for them to be sent back to Turkey and miserable camps are now up and running on the borders of Greece. Jordan is trying to make progress and looking toward making an economic settlementt for refugees so people can have educational opportunities, be registered and the right to work in their region of origin. Other than charities, what support has Jordan or Lebanon received from the wealthy countries of the west? Jordan and Lebanon have warned and asked numerous times for help, but no plan or strategy/system has been put in place yet that I am aware of. What pressure has the west put on the wealthy Arab states to financially support the resettlement of refugees?

Working together the outset and getting people to safety zones to receive the right help, vetted with official papers and then urgent people safely transported to Europe/US/Canada would've have been a more effective, controlled, sounder way to go about things than the inhumane mess we have now.

To think that migrant non-refugee strong young males, not to mention possible criminals, have got into Germany, Sweden in their thousands right before the doors closed, while many young nameless, paperless refugee Syrian families, or the elderly, remain in Turkey unable to get through. I certainly would hate to be stuck in Turkey right now, would much prefer Jordan.

Measurements in misery.
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  #1253  
Old 28.07.2016, 14:16
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Hungary's Orban is blocking them form coming in, and making a lot of noise about it.. and Austria, who were once very supportive, have changed their tune.
I have good friends in Hungary. I was there in April and am talking to them regularly and hearing about things going on there.

Orban is not making nearly as much noise as he could be. Far from being the extremist the West is painting him as he is actually doing his best to find a balanced and middle of the road response to a very difficult situation. A lot of people out there are getting very angry and the whole situation is a dangerous powder keg. Hungary is not a rich country by any measure and lots of people are poor and out of work. There are also lots of working poor and the country has lots of internal problems, not least of which include the near annihilation of heavy industry following the fall of the Berlin Wall and a subsequent mismanaged privatization drive, deficiencies in the agricultural sector, and a massive brain drain with many highly educated people having left the country.

Hungary is actually a welcoming nation. If you study their history, their ancestors come from a broad range of different places including deep inside Asia, and certain aspects of their culture and language still reflect this and in fact they are totally proud of the fact. So far from being a nation of bigots and isolationists they understand the value of diversity. But Humgarians as a people also don't like to take cr@p for very long. This is after all a nation where schoolchildren threw molotov cocktails at Soviet tanks in 1956. And believe me, they'd be ready to do it again. When they get angry, they can get very angry. And what happened last year really took the last straw. Hordes of young men swarming across the countrside and plundering farmhouses. A massive spike in urban crime including rapes of girls as young as 9. Orban tried to warn Western leaders of this but they mocked him. Under the conditions, his repsonse was actually very thoughtful and minimalistic. There are other politicians in Hungary who would have done something far more radical. These aspects have been ignored or under-reported in western media, who instead have clung to the narrative of Orban losing his cool for no reason.

Last edited by amogles; 28.07.2016 at 14:28.
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  #1254  
Old 28.07.2016, 14:26
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Working together the outset and getting people to safety zones to receive the right help, vetted with official papers and then urgent people safely transported to Europe/US/Canada would've have been a more effective, controlled, sounder way to go about things than the inhumane mess we have now.

To think that migrant non-refugee strong young males, not to mention possible criminals, have got into Germany, Sweden in their thousands right before the doors closed, while many young nameless, paperless refugee Syrian families, or the elderly, remain in Turkey unable to get through. I certainly would hate to be stuck in Turkey right now, would much prefer Jordan.

Measurements in misery.
It's a mess, I agree. The sad part is that the majority of people who came last year are not from those camps and are not even from Syria, as it turned out. Europe was/is weak and disorganised and I'm not so sure they'll change anything, at least not without changing something in the core values...wonder if people really want that.
They have this deal with Turkey but look at what's happening there now.. IMO the "gates" to Europe won't, can't be closed too soon. It's a thing we'll just have to deal with.
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Old 28.07.2016, 20:48
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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I have good friends in Hungary. I was there in April and am talking to them regularly and hearing about things going on there.

Orban is not making nearly as much noise as he could be. Far from being the extremist the West is painting him as he is actually doing his best to find a balanced and middle of the road response to a very difficult situation. A lot of people out there are getting very angry and the whole situation is a dangerous powder keg. Hungary is not a rich country by any measure and lots of people are poor and out of work. There are also lots of working poor and the country has lots of internal problems, not least of which include the near annihilation of heavy industry following the fall of the Berlin Wall and a subsequent mismanaged privatization drive, deficiencies in the agricultural sector, and a massive brain drain with many highly educated people having left the country.

Hungary is actually a welcoming nation. If you study their history, their ancestors come from a broad range of different places including deep inside Asia, and certain aspects of their culture and language still reflect this and in fact they are totally proud of the fact. So far from being a nation of bigots and isolationists they understand the value of diversity. But Humgarians as a people also don't like to take cr@p for very long. This is after all a nation where schoolchildren threw molotov cocktails at Soviet tanks in 1956. And believe me, they'd be ready to do it again. When they get angry, they can get very angry. And what happened last year really took the last straw. Hordes of young men swarming across the countrside and plundering farmhouses. A massive spike in urban crime including rapes of girls as young as 9. Orban tried to warn Western leaders of this but they mocked him. Under the conditions, his repsonse was actually very thoughtful and minimalistic. There are other politicians in Hungary who would have done something far more radical. These aspects have been ignored or under-reported in western media, who instead have clung to the narrative of Orban losing his cool for no reason.
Surprising ( ) the media do not quote that in 2015 Hungary had the highest number of registered asylum seekers relevant to local population; 1,799 asylum seekers per 100,000 population.

In comparison Germany had only 589 asylum seekers per 100,000 population.
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  #1256  
Old 29.07.2016, 10:11
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

Here's an interesting read about the challenge faced in Germany to clear the backlog of asylum seekers. This part was most revealing:

"about 40% of those applying for asylum in Germany are being turned down.
That means hundreds of thousands will be due for removal."


Good luck with that.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36904425
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Old 29.07.2016, 10:24
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Here's an interesting read about the challenge faced in Germany to clear the backlog of asylum seekers. This part was most revealing:

"about 40% of those applying for asylum in Germany are being turned down.
That means hundreds of thousands will be due for removal."


Good luck with that.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36904425

There is a disturbing pattern around those who get turned down and have yet to be deported. They are not deported right away. At the end of it, some have been known to commit crimes, as committing a crime delays their deportation.

They seem to be getting legal guidance from activists on how to manage these proceedings. Very few are deported.

Last edited by Phos; 29.07.2016 at 13:38.
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Old 29.07.2016, 10:31
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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There is a disturbing pattern around those who get turned down and have yet to be deported. They are not deported right away. At the end of it, some have been known to commit crimes, as committing a crime delays their deportation.

They seem to be getting legal guidance from activities on how to manage these proceedings. Very few are deported.
Exactly, what do you do with 400,000+ people? They don't want want to go home, especially having walked half way across Europe to get to Germany. How would you even send that many home?

But like you say, once the application has been rejected, that's when matters can get really bad. As they're not deported straight away many just go off grid, and with nothing to lose, the likelihood of turning to crime, or worse, increases.
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Old 29.07.2016, 10:44
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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Exactly, what do you do with 400,000+ people? They don't want want to go home, especially having walked half way across Europe to get to Germany. How would you even send that many home?

But like you say, once the application has been rejected, that's when matters can get really bad. As they're not deported straight away many just go off grid, and with nothing to lose, the likelihood of turning to crime, or worse, increases.
Uhh if they've come from Afghanistan or Pakistan the distance is much much greater...

head in sand time from the Angela cheerleaders
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Old 29.07.2016, 14:01
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Re: Arab gang assaults in Germany

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There is a disturbing pattern around those who get turned down and have yet to be deported. They are not deported right away. At the end of it, some have been known to commit crimes, as committing a crime delays their deportation.

They seem to be getting legal guidance from activists on how to manage these proceedings. Very few are deported.
There are quite a few articles on this subject: some countries refuse to take back their criminals or people who committed immigration related crimes. So not much to do in some cases.
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