I don't think this is about individual motives; cultural, sexual or otherwise. The "New Dimension" cited by German officials is the flash mob aspect of this.

Thooosands of pole vaulting frustrated young men, tip of the iceberg, europe in crisis, woman being told to cover up.. What to do.

Chemical castration at the handouts office.. Take this tablet or no money.

Moahahahawaaa genius. I've solved the problem in one go.

No it doesn't, and no they aren't.
Any incident where large groups of single young men, of any ethnicity, get together in a party atmosphere, with lots and lots of alcohol, and with very little/insufficient security or police presence, and when they think they can get away with it, this will happen. Its the reason these events are policed at all.


If they were 'importing it' (a stupid phrase, by the way), it wouldn't have taken until more then three years after they started coming to Europe for the first incident to occur.

Then why is the only time that anything similar to this has ever been seen was in Cairo a few years back? They weren't living on top of each other. Military personal like to let off steam, but I've never heard of any port or barracks town report anything similar to what's happened in Cologne.

Germany is generally accepted to have let in over 1 million migrants into the country last year. If, as you say, the number of criminals is 1-2%, then that's 10-20,000 people. Or in other words, a quarter of Germany's current prison population. How can the country possible deal with that? And this is what Germany's politicians have allowed to happen!

Merkel is talking today about deporting criminals. Perhaps someone should tell her that anyone with a Syrian passport is not allowed to be deported according to the European Court of Human Rights. And even if they do succeed, with this open invite, they'll only be back again next year.

BULLSHIT. Tell me when, please, tell me exactly when this has or would happen. You see, we have examples of "large groups single young men, of any ethnicity, get together in a party atmosphere, with lots and lots of alcohol and with very little/insufficient security or police presence". Football matches, rugby matches, Carnivals, music festivals, stag parties. And somehow, this never seems to happen.

Thank you for a comprehensive, factual post.

However - Arab culture is very negative towards women. Cairo, for example, has special train wagons and taxis for women and sexual offences are rife. We discussed this on the forum before.

Violence is also very common - a major reason for the refugee problem.

Apart from Cairo, similarities have appeared in the US, but not with sexual harrassment. Often to storm a shopping center or department store. It's Flash Mobbing.

I think this may explain these "first time" incidents from Helsinki, to Austria. I suspect these groups were all subscribed to the same Twitter feeds that triggered this. This is really where investigators need to look.

...so can you cite an incident in Europe where this type of situation has happened before? (ie: 1,000+ men assaulting/groping/raping women) I can't. The German police haven't dealt with such instances either, which is why they were not prepared, and cite a "new dimension" in criminality. If it hasn't happened there before by native Germans, then it's been imported, no?

As cited in a previous post, many of these people were freshly arrived migrants, who arrive in large waves. They have not been able to be "integrated" to European culture yet. The huge groups arriving can't be handled in Germany. If migrants arrive in small groups (as earlier) and are distributed throughout the country, and taught the local customs, culture, etc. this type of thing is less likely to happen.

Uhhh care to explain every single Oktoberfest or even stronger starkbierfest ??????

Except there wasn't 1000+ men raping assaulting/raping/groping women. There was hundreds committing theft. There was a handful groping, and there a very small number (again, relatively) of rapes, much in line with a normal city.


This is the clearest example of the over-reporting and over-analysing of crimes from refugees or those of a different disposition. See how easily Esto can jump to those conclusions? thousands, raping etc. This backs up the point I made before about their crimes being overrepresented rather then under.


If we actually look at the facts - there were hundreds of thefts, and a small number of sexual assaults, and an even smaller number of rapes, you would probably find that in most large European cities holding NYE parties. The only difference here was that the police were unable to control the situation and that the perpetrators were of a particular ancestry.


Statistics from London, NYE 2011:
Officers on duty - 3000 on foot
Arrests - 77 - mainly assault (sexual and bodily) and D&D
London Ambulance service - 600 calls per hour
29- year old arrested for attempted murder of a police office.




North West Ambulance Service (for those intending to claim a London bias) - 374 calls per hour. 14 stabbings Greater Manchester, 10 in Merseyside, 6 in Lancashire.


If you like, I can look for more exact stats on rape/sexual assault. The point is, these crime statistics are not unusual for a major city. This years problems are being highlighted as yet another way to display prejudice against refugees.


And this is 2011, prior to the refugee crisis.

Yes:


large groups of single young men, of any ethnicity, get together in a party atmosphere, with lots and lots of alcohol, and with very little/insufficient security or police presence, and when they think they can get away with it



>Is Oktoberfest full of young single men? No, its mainly families and older citizens. Young single men are a minority at Oktoberfest. I know - I go every year.


>Alcohol - the atmosphere at Oktoberfest is not the same as NYE. Its a three week folk festival, not a single night of debauchery. It is more of a folk festival rather than a party (and yes, there is a difference).


>Security - its not just police that secure Oktoberfest - there are literally thousands of private security as well (eg, securitas, as well as private security at the festival and at each tent)


>Think they can get away with it - The presence of significant police, CCTV, and uninvolved bystanders means they do not.


Comparing the massive festival of Oktoberfest, which is usually planned more than a year in advance, to an unofficial NYE party is a bit silly.

I can understand how you might feel like there is some kind of refugee bashing going on. There probably is. But I should ask what good it would do to simply write this one off as just another NYE like any other. I don't see this attitude helping anybody, nor does it help any and all refugees who are suppose to be on a learning path on how to integrate into European society.

But you're comparing apples and oranges. You're basically saying there were less crime all over a city of 8.5 million to that of one small area of Cologne. And even if it was more, people don't care, they would be isolated instances as to be expected for any large city. The shocking thing about what happened Cologne about this is the nature of the crime.

You may go ever year, but if you think tat Octoberfest is mainly families and old people then you must drink with your eyes closed. It is full of outrageously drunk people, many of which are young men. It's in effect a party for those who are there on the day, and debauchery is pretty much guaranteed.

Anyway, from the tenuous logic you are displaying it's clear you're going for the devils advocate, refugees can do no wrong angle.

You are comparing crime statistics from the whole city of London (population 8 million), with a few hundred square meters of Köln? LOL, ok...

Indeed - lots of sexual assault of both men and women at Oktoberfests in the past:


Sexual assaults double at Munich's Oktoberfest

British man raped at Germany's Oktoberfest

Its quite clear this is an NYE unlike any other, and contrary to your perception, im not saying it is like any other.


Im pointing out that what happened didn't happen because they were refugees, it happened because of failures at more than one level.


And im saying that despite those failures, the situation, though being terrible, was not as bad as some would suggest. And, in fact, the only reason it is being seen as much much worse is because refugees are involved.

I'm sorry, it happened because the culprits chose to do what they did, full stop.

It seems people do not quite understand what 'London bias' is.


PS, those results were the first from a reputable source that came up on google. The point was to show that far worse crimes happen in similar sized cities (Manchester, York, Liverpool, Preston).


40 sexual assaults and 2 rapes, as well as thefts, are certainly not 1000s of rapes by a single group.


Like I said, I can come back to you with more detailed information, but this will obviously take more time.


But you clutch them straws as hard as you can.

Apologies, bad phrasing.


It should say it was allowed to happen because of failures at more than one level.


The underlying cause, is, of course, because they chose to commit those crimes.