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  #301  
Old 10.05.2017, 14:21
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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It sounds crass...but as I said, priorities might be different. Vysegrad will probably figure something out..
Hope so..
We'll probably incorporate into Russia...hehe. Nah, I am joking. I think the only solution is to start looking inwards and trade much more carefully in the future. I blame the naivete of some and the lack of scruples of others. But we all grow up one day.
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Old 10.05.2017, 14:28
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I don't know if Visegrad is planning an exit strategy behind closed doors, but publically they are saying quite the opposite, and I think we can believe them as they do benefit from the EU.

The Visegrad countries believe that the others will at some point come around to their point of view.

How and when and by what mechanism that change is supposed to happen isn't clear to me.

And you're right, they haven't forgotten the Munich betrayal (although if i recall my history correctly, Poland and Hungary both initially benefitted from the carve-up of Czechosolvakia, so it's all less black and white than we like to assume)
I know. Quite black for us. I grew up between a nazi concentration camp and an underground forced labor rocket factory.

Maybe it will pan out, maybe not. I think that V4 people think there is no reason to panic over there, Turkey is far away. It is a bit of an ostrich thing, or just relying on the fact that EE is unattractive as an asylum.

I just know that CZ gov has its own chaos to deal with these days. Czech is impossible to learn, as well. As the most atheist place on earth, with low asylum subsidies to send home, the attractiveness of us heathens is probably bellow zero.
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  #303  
Old 10.05.2017, 15:15
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I am debating with ideas, I am not shooting a messenger.
.
I forgot to mention this - I didn't interpret it this way, and I also know your point of view. After all, I am surprised this thread isn't more debated. The Brexit and prime-minister May and all the worries British people have are very well represented, guess EU's future is a bit of a "tired" topic for most people here.
I initially thought people won't pay much attention to the French elections either, but of course they are relevant in regards with post-Brexit.
I think everyone cares about those left "back home", wherever that might be. It's good to see things through someone else's eyes sometimes, it gives a bit of a perspective. Despite of all the occasional unpleasantness, this forum was interesting from some points of view.
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  #304  
Old 10.05.2017, 15:22
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Maybe it will pan out, maybe not. I think that V4 people think there is no reason to panic over there, Turkey is far away. It is a bit of an ostrich thing, or just relying on the fact that EE is unattractive as an asylum.
I don't think anybody is panicing. But I think a lot of things are going to change. Whether for the better or the worse still remains to be seen. And in times of change it takes good leaders who have the vision to not just fix immediate problems but to think ahead and do what is good in the long term.

I think there are quite a few leaders, both in east and west who sadly don't fit that description.
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  #305  
Old 10.05.2017, 15:33
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I don't think anybody is panicing. But I think a lot of things are going to change. Whether for the better or the worse still remains to be seen. And in times of change it takes good leaders who have the vision to not just fix immediate problems but to think ahead and do what is good in the long term.

I think there are quite a few leaders, both in east and west who sadly don't fit that description.
Yes. Why do you think they do not? Is it the nature of problems? Or nature/dispositions of voters the leaders are sucking up to? Disingenuous concept of PC? Or just leaders being not smart enough to forsee the consequences? Or have we become too rich to be able to afford expensive mistakes? Is that what fools Merkel?

We have an old proverb - "a shirt is closer than a coat", meaning it is unethical to take care of strangers if your kin is unprovided for. Does one have to be smart to function like this? I would not think so, it is simple, unsophisticated and ancient wisdom.
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  #306  
Old 10.05.2017, 15:57
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Yes. Why do you think they do not? Is it the nature of problems? Or nature/dispositions of voters the leaders are sucking up to? Disingenuous concept of PC? Or just leaders being not smart enough to forsee the consequences? Or have we become too rich to be able to afford expensive mistakes? Is that what fools Merkel?
Maybe to varying degrees, a bit of all of that.

In Europe we have had an unprecedented period of peace. Lots of people are quick to jump up and say, that's thanks to the EU, or thanks to NATO, or thanks to the nuclear deterrent and Cold War, or such things. And I don't want to deny any of that. But I think it also has to do with people not wanting war, and finding alternative means of settling differences and carrying out conflicts. The more you have to lose, the less likely you are to seek a situation where you could lose everything. Poverty is thus a big threat to stability and affluence tends to support stability. A breakdown of solidarity can also lead to an increase in poverty and people's preparedness to resort to violence. You thus need to understand where solidarity comes from and what keeps it going. Times of change are dangerous because some of the underlying pillars can suddenly be cast in doubt. I'm keeping this general and not picking on examples of policy as it happens in different areas of politics and everywhere.

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We have an old proverb - "a shirt is closer than a coat", meaning it is unethical to take care of strangers if your kin is unprovided for. Does one have to be smart to function like this? I would not think so, it is simple, unsophisticated and ancient wisdom.
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  #307  
Old 11.05.2017, 21:00
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Maybe to varying degrees, a bit of all of that.

In Europe we have had an unprecedented period of peace. Lots of people are quick to jump up and say, that's thanks to the EU, or thanks to NATO, or thanks to the nuclear deterrent and Cold War, or such things. And I don't want to deny any of that. But I think it also has to do with people not wanting war, and finding alternative means of settling differences and carrying out conflicts. The more you have to lose, the less likely you are to seek a situation where you could lose everything. Poverty is thus a big threat to stability and affluence tends to support stability. A breakdown of solidarity can also lead to an increase in poverty and people's preparedness to resort to violence. You thus need to understand where solidarity comes from and what keeps it going. Times of change are dangerous because some of the underlying pillars can suddenly be cast in doubt. I'm keeping this general and not picking on examples of policy as it happens in different areas of politics and everywhere.
There is peace because people have too much to lose and then there is peace because those little countries have been sacrifized enough times before to become fairly non-violent themselves...waiting for some abuse from the outside, rather than creating it.

EU might have built enough public swimming pools in our territory but not enough to put up with an aftermath and consequences of Merkel's over-enthusiasm.

Solidarity was a concept that has been forcefed by our marvelously disingenous Big Brother for so long..I do not think it will resonate. Maybe in V4. But not between the superpowers and us, the minions.

Which reminds me - I gotta plan a Segedin goulash session soon
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  #308  
Old 11.05.2017, 21:47
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Solidarity was a concept that has been forcefed by our marvelously disingenous Big Brother for so long..I do not think it will resonate. Maybe in V4. But not between the superpowers and us, the minions.
I liked that.
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  #309  
Old 11.05.2017, 21:54
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I liked that.
Bananaaa.
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Old 11.05.2017, 21:58
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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There is peace because people have too much to lose and then there is peace because those little countries have been sacrifized enough times before to become fairly non-violent themselves...waiting for some abuse from the outside, rather than creating it.

EU might have built enough public swimming pools in our territory but not enough to put up with an aftermath and consequences of Merkel's over-enthusiasm.

Solidarity was a concept that has been forcefed by our marvelously disingenous Big Brother for so long..I do not think it will resonate. Maybe in V4. But not between the superpowers and us, the minions.

Which reminds me - I gotta plan a Segedin goulash session soon
Minions!
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  #311  
Old 12.05.2017, 10:51
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Bananaaa.
We have a fable back home (in La Fontaine style) which ends with a very good verse - "We want equality, but not for little dogs"...it came to my mind quite frequently in the last years....
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Old 12.05.2017, 11:00
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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There is peace because people have too much to lose and then there is peace because those little countries have been sacrifized enough times before to become fairly non-violent themselves...waiting for some abuse from the outside, rather than creating it.
The little countries have always benen relatively peaceful of their own will. But the bigger countries have time and time again engineered situations that affected the little countries, and forced them to take sides.

If we're not careful that's going to happen again.
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Old 12.05.2017, 11:23
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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The little countries have always been relatively peaceful of their own will.
Yugoslavia ?? It amazes me to this day the level of simmering loathing the Balkan neighbours have for one another. Even the Albanian lads I know at work speak about blood feuds going on today which have continued for generations.
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Old 12.05.2017, 11:38
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Yugoslavia ?? It amazes me to this day the level of simmering loathing the Balkan neighbours have for one another. Even the Albanian lads I know at work speak about blood feuds going on today which have continued for generations.
The history of Yugoslavia is very complicated. And that part of the world was very much a playground for the powers of the time to fight their proxy wars. Most of the tensions in the area can be traced directly to these past conflicts.

And of course Albania is a topic all unto itself.
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Old 12.05.2017, 12:14
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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The history of Yugoslavia is very complicated. And that part of the world was very much a playground for the powers of the time to fight their proxy wars. Most of the tensions in the area can be traced directly to these past conflicts.
Most of the tensions in the area can be traced back to the hundreds of years when they were parts of the Ottoman Empire....but yeah, that too.

I expected them to be much more "Western oriented" these days...given the lessons they were supposed to learn. Maybe (most probably) they are, I don't follow the news.
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Old 12.05.2017, 12:48
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I expected them to be much more "Western oriented" these days...given the lessons they were supposed to learn. Maybe (most probably) they are, I don't follow the news.
I think Putin's influence shouldn't be underestimated either. I expect new rifts will open as some nations drift west whereas others drift east.
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Old 12.05.2017, 13:26
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I think Putin's influence shouldn't be underestimated either..
Definitely not.
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  #318  
Old 14.05.2017, 21:07
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Early results from Nordrhein-Westfalen show a spectacular fail by SPD, unexpected good result by CDU who beat SPD, Greens lost almost half their voters, AfD first time in Parliament but only with ca. 7%; less than many hoped, and the Linke with no seats
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Old 15.05.2017, 18:30
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

It's final, another 4 years of Merkel.
Haters gonna hate.
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  #320  
Old 17.05.2017, 15:50
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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AfD first time in Parliament but only with ca. 7%; less than many hoped
Sounds like a great result for AfD to me. Pundits were predicting that with the recent stepping down of Frauke Petri, that the party was finished.

This means that barring something totally unexpected, AfD will be in the next Bundestag.

Also interesting to see that AfD took 15% in Gelsenkirchen. What was that abouit AfD having no toehold in the cities with high immigration again?
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