Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #561  
Old 24.09.2017, 21:01
parnell's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 537
Groaned at 199 Times in 125 Posts
Thanked 1,951 Times in 932 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

I have seen very little right wing from the CDU or for that matter the AfD. Those are positions on how big the size of the government should be - correctly classed Marine Le Pen belongs on the loony left for wanting to reduce the age at which one receives the pension alone.

Delighted to see that Merkel did not get away entirely with her entirely illegal dictat

Quote:
A report written by the German parliament’s legal experts has found that parliament and not Angela Merkel should have decided on opening Germany’s borders to refugees in September 2015.
The report by the Bundestag Scientific Office, a team of non-partisan legal experts, stated that it is the role of the Bundestag (German parliament) to decide on all matters of essential relevance to the state.


In the document, the main findings of which were published by Die Welt on Friday, the experts do not explicitly say that the decision made by German Chancellor Angela Merkel on September 4th 2015 to take in tens of thousands of refugees was a decision “of essential relevance to the state.”

Instead they refer to a ruling by the Federal Constitutional Court on refugees reuniting with their families in Germany. The ruling stated that “parliament is obliged to decide on whether, and to what extent, the proportion of non-Germans in the population will be altered by the arrival of foreigners inside the country.”
Reply With Quote
  #562  
Old 24.09.2017, 21:56
Troublawesome's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Zug
Posts: 1,108
Groaned at 245 Times in 143 Posts
Thanked 1,193 Times in 526 Posts
Troublawesome is considered knowledgeableTroublawesome is considered knowledgeableTroublawesome is considered knowledgeable
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Catastrophic results for Merkel. AfD at 13.5%.

Might finally cause a change of direction in Europe regarding immigration. She acted as if she was talking on behalf of the people when she invited everyone here and she paid for it dearly. Maybe other EU leaders will wisen up before their own countries see such parties occupy Parliament seats.
Reply With Quote
  #563  
Old 24.09.2017, 22:08
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Has Poland been invaded yet?
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #564  
Old 24.09.2017, 22:29
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: CH
Posts: 10,732
Groaned at 346 Times in 282 Posts
Thanked 15,636 Times in 8,013 Posts
greenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond reputegreenmount has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Congrats to Merkel.
No personal opinion whatsoever, it's ze Germans' business, unless they decide to invade Poland or something.

How does the EF crowd feel after the news?

Last edited by greenmount; 24.09.2017 at 22:49. Reason: grammar
Reply With Quote
  #565  
Old 24.09.2017, 22:33
parnell's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Geroldswil
Posts: 537
Groaned at 199 Times in 125 Posts
Thanked 1,951 Times in 932 Posts
parnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond reputeparnell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Saw a very good post on the sister site to this one :

Quote:
I am a beating-heart liberal, I voted FDP today, and I think they have the most sensible migration policy. Terrorism is a sideshow. It sucks but it is still a small problem. It is nothing compared to the chilling effects that certain self-importing cultures could have on this country, and a sideshow compared to the damage that unchecked migration of overwhelmingly male persons who know and care zip about European culture could cause. Not because they are bad people (they are not), not because they deserve the life they have compared to that they could have here (they don't), but simply because they are different, and completely (understandably) indifferent to the effects of their arrival in unchecked numbers.

I wish this were not the case. It is. European culture is worth defending. It is worth sharing with the world (as are the world's cultures in Europe), but it will disappear entirely if you allow it to be swamped.

That is why so many voted AfD. Not because they have suddenly become Nazis, but because this cannot go on.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank parnell for this useful post:
  #566  
Old 25.09.2017, 08:35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

So both Merkel's CDU and the SPD have had pretty much their worse showing since the war. SPD have ruled out a coalition which likely means a very shaky CDU-FDP-Green relationship which has significantly weakened Merkel. This is what happens when you allow 1.5 million migrants to enter the country without asking your voters first.

With this political landscape in Germany I guess all the plans for the grand EU reforms will have to be put on ice.
Reply With Quote
  #567  
Old 25.09.2017, 09:18
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,372
Groaned at 77 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

I think it's clear the winner of the day was AfD. They formed only a couple of years ago, and are now the 3rd largest party in Parliament. A clear (and natural) rebuke to Merkel's sudden "open door" migrant policy. Would be interesting to see if German politics can keep a centered path, or if this will devolve into "partisan politics" as in other countries like the US.
Reply With Quote
  #568  
Old 25.09.2017, 09:41
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,554
Groaned at 470 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 19,349 Times in 10,216 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

The FDP more than doubled their share of the vote and the second biggest increase after the AfD.
The FDP are opposed to setting a limit of how many asylum seekers are allowed to enter Germany. They also want to allow people to file for asylum from abroad.
Reply With Quote
  #569  
Old 25.09.2017, 10:15
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,554
Groaned at 470 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 19,349 Times in 10,216 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Quote:
View Post
So both Merkel's CDU and the SPD have had pretty much their worse showing since the war. SPD have ruled out a coalition which likely means a very shaky CDU-FDP-Green relationship which has significantly weakened Merkel. This is what happens when you allow 1.5 million migrants to enter the country without asking your voters first.

With this political landscape in Germany I guess all the plans for the grand EU reforms will have to be put on ice.
Well the SPD could always turn around and say that ruling out a coalition did not prove popular with our voters so we have changed our policy?

If the refugee (not migrant?) issue was as important as you claim then how do you explain the FDP who are opposed to setting a limit of how many asylum seekers are allowed to enter Germany more than doubled their share of the vote?
Reply With Quote
  #570  
Old 25.09.2017, 10:15
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Quote:
View Post
I think it's clear the winner of the day was AfD. They formed only a couple of years ago, and are now the 3rd largest party in Parliament. A clear (and natural) rebuke to Merkel's sudden "open door" migrant policy. Would be interesting to see if German politics can keep a centered path, or if this will devolve into "partisan politics" as in other countries like the US.
I think the vanilla style of German politics is half the reason we saw the results we did yesterday. The two main parties, which are out of touch with the concerns of many voters, in a coalition doing what they think is best for them. Germany has been crying out for real opposition and a party holding the government to account for a long time. Whether the AfD is the answer however remains to be seen.

Quote:
View Post
The FDP more than doubled their share of the vote and the second biggest increase after the AfD.
The FDP are opposed to setting a limit of how many asylum seekers are allowed to enter Germany. They also want to allow people to file for asylum from abroad.
The FDP is an established party, their absence from the Reichstag last time out was only a blip.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #571  
Old 25.09.2017, 10:21
esto's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CHE
Posts: 1,372
Groaned at 77 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 3,225 Times in 1,406 Posts
esto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond reputeesto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Quote:
View Post
The FDP more than doubled their share of the vote and the second biggest increase after the AfD.
The FDP are opposed to setting a limit of how many asylum seekers are allowed to enter Germany. They also want to allow people to file for asylum from abroad.
The policy they propose sounds reasonable to me, and I'm fairly conservative.

PS- He did say they are in favor of setting limits on refugees.

Quote:
Lindner harshly criticized German Chancellor Angela Merkel's refugee policy.

Refugees would be granted a residence permit and have immediate access to the labor market. "But residence permits are strictly limited in duration," he said. "When peace returns to their countries of origin, they do as a rule have to leave Germany."

Those who are not entitled to asylum, are not refugees or are not "qualified" immigrants "cannot come to Germany, and cannot stay here."

DW's Pohl wanted to know whether there would be a limit on the number of refugees allowed into Germany. "There is a cap, which is determined by capacities and how you can meet the people's needs," Lindner replied.
http://www.dw.com/en/christian-lindn...icy/a-40211755
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank esto for this useful post:
  #572  
Old 25.09.2017, 10:41
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,558
Groaned at 281 Times in 229 Posts
Thanked 24,661 Times in 10,423 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

I was at the house of my German in laws yesterday. We popped a few corks of bubbly stuff as the results came in on TV.

I have avoided political stuff on German TV for some time now and watching the spectacle reminded me why. Journalists being extremely partisan, falling over the slightest inconsistencies in stuff the afd people were saying but being blind to far bigger gaps in the logic of the other guests.

One of the green ladies said something like, the AfD have said we need to get our country back. She was pleased they only got13 percent of the vote. That shows 87 percent don't want that. Freudian slide somewhat. I was surprised nobody picked up on that.

And then the conjectures about the potential coalition began. The SPD were quick to say they didn't want to return to power. So quick in fact that that decision must have been made beforehand. One of the reasons was that they don't want afd to be the biggest opposition party. That means Merkel needs a coalition with the greens and FDP, but these seemed reluctant to take up the poison chalice and were accusing the SPD of sidestepping their responsibility. It was almost as if nobody actually wants to rule Germany right now.

The topic of such a coalition breaking down was also raised quite a bit, and the prospect of a second election.

Schulz was his usual unemotional self, bumbling his way through what sounded like scripted statements. Merkel managed to maintain some composure with a good portion of denial. The afd guy hardly got any statements in and when he did say something he was interrupted so much that you couldn't really follow what he as saying. The real focus of the debate seemed to be around the other smaller parties. Özdemir of the Greens was the first to have the courage to say there are other issues than the afd. He came across quite statesmanlike and we could have done with hearing more from him. in contrast to Goering Eckard who seemed on the verge of breaking into tears and once even managed to blame Orban, Brexit and Trump. The FDP guy made an unusually good impression for a party that is supposedly boring and grey saying his party was ready for government but that they were going to be tough negotiators. There were a few quite theatrical exchanges of barbs with the greens which mostly the FDP seemed to be winning.

Last edited by amogles; 25.09.2017 at 10:57.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #573  
Old 25.09.2017, 10:42
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,993
Groaned at 113 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 10,731 Times in 4,731 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Quote:
View Post
I think the vanilla style of German politics is half the reason we saw the results we did yesterday.
I don't want vanilla in my rock music. I want vanilla in my politicians. I want them to keep their heads down, no drama, no controversy, and get the job done that they're being paid to do.
Reply With Quote
  #574  
Old 25.09.2017, 10:42
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,554
Groaned at 470 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 19,349 Times in 10,216 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Quote:
View Post
I think the vanilla style of German politics is half the reason we saw the results we did yesterday. The two main parties, which are out of touch with the concerns of many voters, in a coalition doing what they think is best for them. Germany has been crying out for real opposition and a party holding the government to account for a long time. Whether the AfD is the answer however remains to be seen.



The FDP is an established party, their absence from the Reichstag last time out was only a blip.
Same as the AfD result is only "a blip".

So you agree the FDP result proves the refugee topic was not a major factor?

BTW, if you add together the vote increases for the parties who are opposed to setting a limit of how many asylum seekers are allowed to enter Germany then it is pretty much the same as the vote increase seen by the AfD
Reply With Quote
  #575  
Old 25.09.2017, 10:48
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Quote:
View Post
I don't want vanilla in my rock music. I want vanilla in my politicians. I want them to keep their heads down, no drama, no controversy, and get the job done that they're being paid to do.
I fully agree. But there's a difference between politicians and politics. I'm fully of the opinion that there should be as few politicians as possible whose sole job is exercising the will of the people.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #576  
Old 25.09.2017, 10:52
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Quote:
View Post
Same as the AfD result is only "a blip".

So you agree the FDP result proves the refugee topic was not a major factor?
No. Because it was pretty much the most major factor. And if you can't see that, then there's little point in discussing the topic further with you.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #577  
Old 25.09.2017, 10:59
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,993
Groaned at 113 Times in 101 Posts
Thanked 10,731 Times in 4,731 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Quote:
View Post
I'm fully of the opinion that there should be as few politicians as possible
...I prefer enough to do everything that needs doing proficiently, efficiently and effectively.

Quote:
View Post
...whose sole job is exercising the will of the people.
Disagree there. A substantial number of people struggle to manage their own households at times, and I have little faith in their knowledge of how to run a country. I want to delegate the responsibility of that to those best equipped to fulfil the role (see caveat above), not a bunch of errand boys/ cat herders.
Reply With Quote
  #578  
Old 25.09.2017, 11:03
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,558
Groaned at 281 Times in 229 Posts
Thanked 24,661 Times in 10,423 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Quote:
View Post
I think the vanilla style of German politics is half the reason we saw the results we did yesterday. The two main parties, which are out of touch with the concerns of many voters, in a coalition doing what they think is best for them. Germany has been crying out for real opposition and a party holding the government to account for a long time. Whether the AfD is the answer however remains to be seen.
Despite what the media are saying, most of the AfD is not that extreme. They're definitely to the left of UKIP. In the UK, most of them would be Tories. It's a Pavlovian reaction to assume anything in Germany that's more right than the CDU and is not in Bavaria must be a Nazi.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #579  
Old 25.09.2017, 11:07
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,554
Groaned at 470 Times in 403 Posts
Thanked 19,349 Times in 10,216 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Quote:
View Post
No. Because it was pretty much the most major factor. And if you can't see that, then there's little point in discussing the topic further with you.
You are entitled to your opinion but it does not align with the facts displayed by the voting results, again "if you add together the vote increases for the parties who are opposed to setting a limit of how many asylum seekers are allowed to enter Germany then it is pretty much the same as the vote increase seen by the AfD"
Reply With Quote
  #580  
Old 25.09.2017, 12:30
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Some interesting analysis:

Germany: Wetin make Merkel 'market' still dey sell?
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What do you do if you find a long hair in the plate in restaurant? happyrobbie Daily life 17 12.04.2014 02:44
This is what happens if you believe in scam mails k_and_e Daily life 4 22.03.2013 16:44
Do you believe in Extra-Terrestrial life? Lob General off-topic 46 19.11.2010 22:19
What do you believe? economisto International affairs/politics 79 13.05.2010 21:46
Bob Woolmer - Do you believe the new conclusions? chiguy Football/sports 7 25.10.2007 09:41


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0