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  #661  
Old 04.01.2018, 10:30
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Intzeresting interview in the NZZ on the situation in Germany.

Nothing fundamentally new or groundbreaking, but good to see a German historian formulate these points in a moderate and intelligent tone on a mainstream platform.

https://www.nzz.ch/feuilleton/ohne-l...&kid=_2018-1-4
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  #662  
Old 04.01.2018, 16:16
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Intzeresting interview in the NZZ on the situation in Germany.

Nothing fundamentally new or groundbreaking, but good to see a German historian formulate these points in a moderate and intelligent tone on a mainstream platform.

https://www.nzz.ch/feuilleton/ohne-l...&kid=_2018-1-4
But he doesn't say anything precise, does he? It's a bit amusing to notice that he's all "open" and "moderate" while slightly criticising Merkel for practically the same thing. It must be something within CDU.
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  #663  
Old 04.01.2018, 16:33
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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But he doesn't say anything precise, does he? It's a bit amusing to notice that he's all "open" and "moderate" while slightly criticising Merkel for practically the same thing. It must be something within CDU.
On the whole, i agree with what you say.

But some notable points

- It is the first time that I read of somebody in the CDU but not connected to the right fringe of that party suggest that Merkel is on her way out, or that there is a rift between her and the party. Unfortunately he doesn't say anything about remedying that.

- It is unusual for sombody in the CDU to say that the whole diversity and identity thing (in its present form) is going wrong, even if he doesn't attempt to say how it can be fixed or what should replace it.

- He says quite clearly that Germany needs to takle on more leadership in Europe, but needs to do so on the basis of consensus, cooperation and respect rather than shouting down those with diverging opinions and objectives.

- In other points he is being too evasice, I agree. Such as Merkel being too uch of a fence sitter and not having a clear profile or formulating a recognizable or measurable vision. The same was said of Kohl and indeed of Schröder. These leaders all perfectioned the art of a surving a crisis by doing nothing. Maybe that's just part of the way politics are done in Germany and the type of leadersip Germans actually want.
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  #664  
Old 04.01.2018, 20:40
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Imho the guy is an idiot. He does not say at all
Quote:
Germany needs to takle on more leadership in Europe, but needs to do so on the basis of consensus, cooperation and respect rather than shouting down those with diverging opinions and objectives.

but rather
Quote:
Es gibt viele Europäer, die von Deutschland erwarten, dass es Europas Interessen über seine nationalen Interessen stellt. Wenn die Bundesregierung das tut, wird sie allerdings ein Problem mit der Akzeptanz im eigenen Land bekommen. Mit Blick auf die historischen Erfahrungen ist meine Einschätzung: Deutschland muss eine wohlwollende Führung ausüben, das heisst auch mehr in die europäische Ordnung investieren – aber auf freiwilliger Basis und im Rahmen einer flexiblen Union kooperierender Nationalstaaten, nicht auf der Grundlage weiterer institutionalisierter Ansprüche an Deutschland

Die Aussage is n Hammer.
Why?
Because he is implying that Germany has been sacrificing itself for the sake of Europe (which is not the case at all), and that a solution could be that one of a "freiwillig", "wohlwollend" and "flexible", non-institutionalized cooperation from the German side. I.e. if Germany is cooperative "to save Europe", depends on the German mood, ad libitum. Dei Gratia Imperator, not by EU or international ("institutionalized") agreements and common policies.


However, if he manages to make others, particularly non-Germans, buy and swallow this German crap, more power to him.
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  #665  
Old 04.01.2018, 21:50
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Imho the guy is an idiot. He does not say at all


but rather


Die Aussage is n Hammer.
Why?
Because he is implying that Germany has been sacrificing itself for the sake of Europe (which is not the case at all), and that a solution could be that one of a "freiwillig", "wohlwollend" and "flexible", non-institutionalized cooperation from the German side. I.e. if Germany is cooperative "to save Europe", depends on the German mood, ad libitum. Dei Gratia Imperator, not by EU or international ("institutionalized") agreements and common policies.


However, if he manages to make others, particularly non-Germans, buy and swallow this German crap, more power to him.
I think you are being unnecessarily harsh.

One can have a cooperation that is "wohlwollend" and even "freiwillig" without that meaning the opposite of institutionalization, or doing cr@p without getting anything in return.

A consensus isn't something made by God that falls from heaven and you take it or leave it. A consensus is something that needs to be built from the ground up over a long time and that can indeed be organic, with changing priorities and objectives. I don't know it it is true that the rest of Europe looks to Germany and expects them to take leadership on anything. Maybe that expectation in itself is a fantasy of German politicians. But I think that if Germany wanted to take that leadership, that most of Europe would welcome it, as indeed they did in past crises.

But Merkel has somehow dropped out of her role as a de-facto leader among a group of equals and drifted more and more into the "Lehrmeister" position with a good portion of unreflected "Überheblichkeit", something that most of Europe doesn't feel comfortable with, and something that the majority of Germans don't want either.
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  #666  
Old 04.01.2018, 22:23
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Noah Becker, son of the German tennis star Boris Becker, plans to press charges against MP Jens Maier from AfD party who called him a “little half-negro” on Twitter, the Bild newspaper has reported.

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  #667  
Old 05.01.2018, 00:12
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Just wondering where this is heading?

Trying to bog down the courts with complaints?
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  #668  
Old 05.01.2018, 08:37
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Noah Becker, son of the German tennis star Boris Becker, plans to press charges against MP Jens Maier from AfD party who called him a “little half-negro” on Twitter, the Bild newspaper has reported.

Source
Hmm, I wonder why someone like Jens Maier has so little self esteem to react with this pathetic ad hominem to just an opinion of a 23 year old...I looked at his picture and I can understand why (midlife crisis with its ugly symptoms?), but still....maybe a little lawsuit will show him how to behave, who knows.

And when you think he could have just made an account on an anonymous forum and spat all his bile anonymously.... Only in these virtual spaces people like him feel like they have a free pass to say just about everything. But he's a politician and wanted to say it out loud for all those he represents.....Cute. Welcome to Europe!


Anyway. Here's Merkel wishing more empathy....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/31/w...-new-year.html

Last edited by greenmount; 05.01.2018 at 08:59.
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  #669  
Old 05.01.2018, 10:57
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Hmm, I wonder why someone like Jens Maier has so little self esteem to react with this pathetic ad hominem to just an opinion of a 23 year old...I looked at his picture and I can understand why (midlife crisis with its ugly symptoms?), but still....maybe a little lawsuit will show him how to behave, who knows.

And when you think he could have just made an account on an anonymous forum and spat all his bile anonymously.... Only in these virtual spaces people like him feel like they have a free pass to say just about everything. But he's a politician and wanted to say it out loud for all those he represents.....Cute. Welcome to Europe!
I think there is a strategy behind the randomness. I'm not quite clear what that strategy is but I don't think this is random. Anyway, for the moment they are up in the polls, so maybe it's just about that.

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Anyway. Here's Merkel wishing more empathy....

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/31/w...-new-year.html
Well, I bit it wasn't hard to do better than President Steienmeier's speech, wich was a real yawner.
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  #670  
Old 16.01.2018, 12:46
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

SPD have just recorded their lowest ever poll result (18.5%) following the latest coalition talks with the CDU. It is funny when politicians completely ignore the wishes of the voters, and then the wishes of their own party.
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  #671  
Old 16.01.2018, 13:21
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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SPD have just recorded their lowest ever poll result (18.5%) following the latest coalition talks with the CDU. It is funny when politicians completely ignore the wishes of the voters, and then the wishes of their own party.
With the AfD now at 14%, the gap is becoming tight.

I think the problem with the SPD is a complex one. Traditionally the SPD has done well when it swung towards the centre, as it did under Schröder for example. But the party membership is still pretty old-school left. The party membership is thus not representative of the party's voter demographic, but the membership understands that sometimes it needs to swallow a bitter pill if that is the price of coming to power. But the present leadership has not been succesful in serving that pill, but rather has spread the narrative that we're going to get everything we want and it's not going to be difficult and we won't have to accept any compromises. They haven't yet awoken to the fcat that Schulz has sold them all short and are still waiting for that miracle to happen.

The only reasonable way forward for the SPD is to dump Schlulz and his homeys and to start telling the truth again, including the type of truth that hurts.
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  #672  
Old 16.01.2018, 14:21
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

During the 70s, a lot of "intellectuals" (teachers mainly but also a lot of other civil servants) joined the SPD.

These are either simply deceasing or are just no longer available for the voter-pool.

Instead, the Green Party has slowly taken over the role as home for "intellectuals".

The "traditional" SPD-voter (working-class, medium to low income), if it actually still exists, is probably eyeing AfD very heavily - simply because the ideas and politics of the SPD are partly incompatible with this voter-pool.

So, realistically, the SPD is currently looking like it's going the way of the dodo. Which is sad, but it might also make room for something different, es this essay suggests:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...a-1187932.html

(no English version available)
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  #673  
Old 16.01.2018, 14:27
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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With the AfD now at 14%, the gap is becoming tight.

I think the problem with the SPD is a complex one. Traditionally the SPD has done well when it swung towards the centre, as it did under Schröder for example. But the party membership is still pretty old-school left. The party membership is thus not representative of the party's voter demographic, but the membership understands that sometimes it needs to swallow a bitter pill if that is the price of coming to power. But the present leadership has not been succesful in serving that pill, but rather has spread the narrative that we're going to get everything we want and it's not going to be difficult and we won't have to accept any compromises. They haven't yet awoken to the fcat that Schulz has sold them all short and are still waiting for that miracle to happen.

The only reasonable way forward for the SPD is to dump Schlulz and his homeys and to start telling the truth again, including the type of truth that hurts.
To be fair, I think Centre Left Social Democracy is dead for the time being across Europe. Elections in Germany, France, Austria and the Netherlands last year have been terrible for these parties.

Schulz probably did exacerbate things by stating he wanted the families of migrants to be able to come and join them though.
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Old 16.01.2018, 15:51
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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To be fair, I think Centre Left Social Democracy is dead for the time being across Europe. Elections in Germany, France, Austria and the Netherlands last year have been terrible for these parties.

Schulz probably did exacerbate things by stating he wanted the families of migrants to be able to come and join them though.
I think there is a demand for social democratic policies. Maybe there aren't as many factory jobs as there used to be, but a lot of people still feel affinity with it and as a demographic the traditional "working class" is far from extinct.

It's probably also a good thing for social democarcy that the intellectual end of the membership is either dying out or wandering off to the Greens. People like Corbyn mistook social democracy for socialism and damaged the cause more than they helped it.

It is a tough one to admit, but today's AfD voter base is more representative of the traditional social democratic fold than the SPD.
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Old 16.01.2018, 16:25
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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To be fair, I think Centre Left Social Democracy is dead for the time being across Europe. Elections in Germany, France, Austria and the Netherlands last year have been terrible for these parties.

Schulz probably did exacerbate things by stating he wanted the families of migrants to be able to come and join them though.
The German public needs to recognise they need migrants who work and pay their taxes so paying the pensions of the aging German population.

However as a Swiss migrant I am sure you will show solidarity and send your family home
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  #676  
Old 16.01.2018, 16:42
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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The German public needs to recognise they need migrants who work and pay their taxes so paying the pensions of the aging German population.
Maybe.

But then they should be bold and sell it that way.

They could run some figures for example, and show that rather than extending retirement age to 68 or whatever, all the extra contributions can bring the age down to something like 55.

If that was what was going to happen, people would be loving migrants.

Just imagine.

Surely this could have been an easy win for a proper social democrat?

But they're not doing that because they know the figures don't really add up like that. The migrants are a net cost factor for the social security system and will remian so for a long time yet.

And the more they talk about increasing the retirement age, the more people get that feeling that the retirement age isn't really coming down at all. The pension pot is being saved by people working until they drop.
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  #677  
Old 16.01.2018, 16:49
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Maybe.

But then they should be bold and sell it that way.

They could run some figures for example, and show that rather than extending retirement age to 68 or whatever, all the extra contributions can bring the age down to something like 55.

If that was what was going to happen, people would be loving migrants.

Just imagine.

Surely this could have been an easy win for a proper social democrat?

But they're not doing that because they know the figures don't really add up like that. The migrants are a net cost factor for the social security system and will remian so for a long time yet.

And the more they talk about increasing the retirement age, the more people get that feeling that the retirement age isn't really coming down at all.
You are confusing refugees with migrants (again!)

Migrants work and pay taxes. You are a migrant, Loz is a migrant, I am a migrant.

Please withdraw your claim that I am a net cost factor for the social security system and will remain so for a long time yet.
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  #678  
Old 16.01.2018, 17:00
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Please withdraw your claim that I am a net cost factor for the social security system and will remain so for a long time yet.
Collectively migrants are a net cost factor for the social security system in a situatiuon where refugees vastly outnumber professional migrant workers.
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  #679  
Old 16.01.2018, 17:00
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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The German public needs to recognise they need migrants who work and pay their taxes so paying the pensions of the aging German population.

However as a Swiss migrant I am sure you will show solidarity and send your family home
Good luck with that, 1 in 4 unemployed in Germany is a migrant.

https://amp.welt.de/amp/wirtschaft/a...mpression=true
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Old 16.01.2018, 17:05
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I think there is a demand for social democratic policies. Maybe there aren't as many factory jobs as there used to be, but a lot of people still feel affinity with it and as a demographic the traditional "working class" is far from extinct.

It's probably also a good thing for social democarcy that the intellectual end of the membership is either dying out or wandering off to the Greens. People like Corbyn mistook social democracy for socialism and damaged the cause more than they helped it.

It is a tough one to admit, but today's AfD voter base is more representative of the traditional social democratic fold than the SPD.
Corbyn has turned Labour into a far left populist party. Perhaps the SPD should take note if they want to survive? Although for my money that would never take off in Germany.
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