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  #721  
Old 30.01.2018, 15:19
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Over 2 million foreign residents in Japan = zero migration
In a country of +50 million? Yes, that's practically nothing.

An really, you have to differentiate between skilled workers who were invited and contributing to the economy, and unskilled asylum seekers who are generally taking more from the economy than giving.
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  #722  
Old 30.01.2018, 15:21
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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...or they commit political suicide by opening the borders and yelling "Wir schffen das!".

Strange, Germany's politics since WW2 have been stable, predictable and boring. The rise of the far-left has unhinged it all now...(and AfD is a direct result of the far-left's actions, by the way. They would never have existed in such strength otherwise)
It is an interesting phenomenon.

When people are succesful for too long, they take their success for granted and neglect the source of their success.

German politics in the period from post-WW2 until a few years ago was essentially boring. Lots of boring men in grey suits talking waffle that didn't really mean anything. Maybe later also some equally boring women. Nothing much changed. I can understand that for people who grew up with that, it's all rather infuriating. They want to see change for the sake of seeing change and want to see stuff getting smashed just because it will end the boredom.

But they neglect the boredom also means predictability, and that that predictability is one of the reasons for Germany's success. Countries such as France and Briatin that had much more colourful and entertaining political activities during the same period suffered precisely because part of the entertainment value that their politics were providing was shooting oneself in the foot, reloading, and doing it again.

So whereas many European countries wish they had governments of the type Germany used to have, the Germans themselves want a government that can out-funny all the other governments and want to shoot themslves in the foot with far bigger guns, and automatic ones (much funnier than loading). So first they got rid of nuclear power, but their feet didn't bleed half as much as they had expected, so now they're reaching for the next bigger gun still.
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  #723  
Old 30.01.2018, 15:29
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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The figures are a far cry from the record 890,000 arrivals registered in 2015 after Merkel opened the country's borders to those fleeing conflict at the height of Europe's migrant crisis -- a decision that polarised the country.
650,000 out of the 890,000 arrived before "Merkel opened the country's borders".

Sorry to pop your bubble
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  #724  
Old 30.01.2018, 15:44
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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yup, and Turkey is pretty much overrun with refugees, but as Marton keeps reminding us, the economy is just down down down.

So maybe economics is a bit more complicated that that.

If the the above causation were real, somebody would have kick-started the Zimbabwean economy by now.
You believe people the Zimbabwe net migration rate is positive? Weird?
Did you forget your tablets this morning?

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One figure puts the outflow of people from Zimbabwe at 50% of that country’s population. This amounts to roughly 4 million people.
Zimbabwe has a high-standard education system and its graduates are able to be employed anywhere in the world.
Source
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  #725  
Old 30.01.2018, 15:57
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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In a country of +50 million? Yes, that's practically nothing.

An really, you have to differentiate between skilled workers who were invited and contributing to the economy, and unskilled asylum seekers who are generally taking more from the economy than giving.
And you have to differentiate between skilled asylum seekers and unskilled asylum seekers
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  #726  
Old 30.01.2018, 16:16
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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You believe people the Zimbabwe net migration rate is positive? Weird?
Did you forget your tablets this morning?



Source
My point exactly.

So you are agreeing iwth me that Merkel was very selfish not to have given Zimbabwe her refugees.
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  #727  
Old 30.01.2018, 16:17
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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And you have to differentiate between skilled asylum seekers and unskilled asylum seekers
Try explaining that to Treverus.
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  #728  
Old 30.01.2018, 16:23
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Try explaining that to Treverus.
Definition: that
ğat/Submit
pronoun
1.
used to identify a specific person or thing observed or heard by the speaker.
"that's his wife over there"
2.
referring to a specific thing previously mentioned, known, or understood.
"that's a good idea"
determiner
1.
used to identify a specific person or thing observed or heard by the speaker.
"look at that chap there"
2.
referring to a specific thing previously mentioned, known, or understood.
"he lived in Mysore at that time"
adverb
1.
to such a degree; so.
"I wouldn't go that far"
conjunction
ğat,ğət/Submit
1.
introducing a subordinate clause expressing a statement or hypothesis.
"she said that she was satisfied"
2.
literary
expressing a wish or regret.
"oh that he could be restored to health"
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  #729  
Old 30.01.2018, 16:38
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

The reason German politics was "boring" because there wasn't much dispute.
About the only disputes in politics centered around the military (rearmament in the 50s, "Ostpolitik" in the 70s and the NATO Double Track Decision in the late 70s/early 90s.

Every other issue was basically covered up by showering money on the problem, often foregoing making an actual decision for or against something and thus keeping the status-quo instead.

Remember the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait?
Instead of sending troops, Germany instead opened the cheque-book and paid 15 billion DM (IIRC) so somebody else's soldiers could die.
There are many, many more of these examples before and after.

Now, there's not enough money to cover up the problems (they've grown too big because we waited too long) and - surprise, surprise - people and politicians don't really know how to really handle disputes and different opinions.

Most of the problems aren't new. We had already covered them in the 90s in school.
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  #730  
Old 30.01.2018, 17:51
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Every other issue was basically covered up by showering money on the problem, often foregoing making an actual decision for or against something and thus keeping the status-quo instead.

Remember the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait?
Instead of sending troops, Germany instead opened the cheque-book and paid 15 billion DM (IIRC) so somebody else's soldiers could die.
There are many, many more of these examples before and after.

Now, there's not enough money to cover up the problems (they've grown too big because we waited too long) and - surprise, surprise - people and politicians don't really know how to really handle disputes and different opinions.
When 1 million people from a different continent walk into your country within the span of a single year, it's a very different kind of problem, and one that is very acute and visible. I think Germany did try to shower money on the problem, by inventing a "refugee quota" to try to send them to other EU countries, but ironically even the East EU countries who need the money (ie: "refugee payments") didn't bite.

But the main problem at the moment is not really money, it's simply refugees. The Left wants more. Unlimited. And to let them bring their families too. They won't compromise on that, and that's what is fracturing the German government. As it stands, there won't be any coalition, and Merkel will have to move on.
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  #731  
Old 30.01.2018, 18:17
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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The reason German politics was "boring" because there wasn't much dispute.
About the only disputes in politics centered around the military (rearmament in the 50s, "Ostpolitik" in the 70s and the NATO Double Track Decision in the late 70s/early 90s.

Every other issue was basically covered up by showering money on the problem, often foregoing making an actual decision for or against something and thus keeping the status-quo instead.

Remember the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait?
Instead of sending troops, Germany instead opened the cheque-book and paid 15 billion DM (IIRC) so somebody else's soldiers could die.
There are many, many more of these examples before and after.

Now, there's not enough money to cover up the problems (they've grown too big because we waited too long) and - surprise, surprise - people and politicians don't really know how to really handle disputes and different opinions.

Most of the problems aren't new. We had already covered them in the 90s in school.
Wasn't the chequebook diplomacy more Helmut Kohl's way of fixing problems? I'm not aware that his predecessors did that too to the same extent.

I was more under the impression that Gerrmany got by without having to take tough or controversial decisons because they didn't have serious problems. A good government should have tried to keep things that way.
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  #732  
Old 30.01.2018, 18:49
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

I thought it was because they hid in the shadows of the US, and all this rude awakening is just simply facing up to the realities of the real world, which they haven't had a lot of practice with.

They are having trouble coming to terms and admitting what happened - particularly that Merkel choked. But because they can't come to terms with it, they are about to give Merkel another chance at choking again.

I think Merkel will likely choke again.
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  #733  
Old 30.01.2018, 19:04
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I thought it was because they hid in the shadows of the US, and all this rude awakening is just simply facing up to the realities of the real world, which they haven't had a lot of practice with.

They are having trouble coming to terms and admitting what happened - particularly that Merkel choked. But because they can't come to terms with it, they are about to give Merkel another chance at choking again.

I think Merkel will likely choke again.
Who is they? The GOP?
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  #734  
Old 31.01.2018, 12:43
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I thought it was because they hid in the shadows of the US, and all this rude awakening is just simply facing up to the realities of the real world, which they haven't had a lot of practice with.
Maybe in terms of military / NATO responsibility, Germany benefitted from hiding in the shadow of the US (but you can't really blame them as the US wouldn't ahve allowed them any other option)

But in terms of building Europe, Germany did take a leading role. Think of Adenauer reaching out to de Gaulle, two men who were fundamentally different in terms of their political pedigree and values, but built a strong bond of friendship into which they led their respective countries. They joined hands as equals rather than strong man and vassal. This was quite a new thing at the time as traditionally alliances revolve about smaller countries finding a larger country to protect them and effectively become its vassal in return. It thus heralded the politics of coalitions between equals which was very much the spirit of the EU (and its prdecessor organizations) in the early years. I don't think the US had much of a part to play there, apart from quietly stepping back and letting them get on with it.

Ironically, today it is the V4 Group who have learnt from that and are doing that, while the old EU is desending more into authoritrian relationships between countries, as first their handling of the Greek crisis showed, and now the EE thing.

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  #735  
Old 07.02.2018, 12:21
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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She is apparently beset by resistance from all sides. Even asylum seekers are now suing her government for taking too long to process their asylum requests. Yet she doesn't seem to address anything anybody airs. Does she intend to lead or do all the work herself?

In German democracy, how is it possible for a Chancellor to not listen to anybody? How is this different from despotism? Weren't there any lessons learned from WWII about ruling with absolute power?
Coalition plan is agreed, now Merkel will be in place for some years if the SPD vote in favour.
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  #736  
Old 07.02.2018, 13:29
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Coalition plan is agreed, now Merkel will be in place for some years if the SPD vote in favour.
And if the coalition doesn't break apart at some point.
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  #737  
Old 07.02.2018, 14:39
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

LOL.
Schulz as foreign minister.

I'll be very surprised if the SPD survives that.
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  #738  
Old 07.02.2018, 14:42
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

And the finances run by SPD too.. expect some Greek-like debt coming soon

Cheating your voters CHECK
Cheating your country CHECK

I doubt the SPD will be the 2nd biggest party, coming next elections..
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  #739  
Old 07.02.2018, 14:44
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

At this point, I can't take him serious anymore.
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Old 08.02.2018, 20:39
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Haha:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...a-1192553.html


Sigmar Gabriel to spend more time at home after being booted from cabinet.

Reaction of his young daughter: "But this is so much better than (spending the time) with the man with hair in the face".



Kids...
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