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  #841  
Old 14.06.2018, 16:04
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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But yeah, visible criticism of Merkel's refugee policy is still comparatively low in Germany. But it is gaining ground. I have the impression not many people will speak their mind ouitright but a lot of people are making veiled references to what's going on. Much more than say two years ago.
Yea, it's taking Germans a little time to figure out how to react to Merkel's sudden "wilkommenskultur/wir-schaffen-das". Germans still (!!) have their WW2 guilt, but on the other hand aren't stupid and see the mistakes that countries like France and Sweden made regarding refugees and don't want to repeat them. Interesting to see how they handle it all in the "German" way...
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  #842  
Old 14.06.2018, 16:05
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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True, I haven't seen many right-wing protests or riots. Seems to be mainly the left-wing radicals doing that kind of stuff. All the action with the right seems to be going on in the ballot boxes (See: Italy, Austria, Germany, etc..)

Depends how wide your reading material is, doesn't it?

Right wing press tends not to report too widely about its own shortcomings, same as the left wing press.

Or so I'm told...
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  #843  
Old 14.06.2018, 16:06
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

I said not many. Do you want me to list all the ANTIFA and left-wing protests, rallies and riots? G7, etc.
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  #844  
Old 15.06.2018, 08:12
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

There's a real danger that Merkel's weak political position could bring down her government. The Bavarians are playing up over migrants.

Germany migrant row threatens Merkel coalition
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  #845  
Old 15.06.2018, 08:22
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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The Bavarians are playing up over migrants.
they are just exaggerating. she let only a million in.
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  #846  
Old 15.06.2018, 11:18
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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There's a real danger that Merkel's weak political position could bring down her government. The Bavarians are playing up over migrants.

Germany migrant row threatens Merkel coalition
There will be a state election in Bavaria in October and the polls are looking as if AfD could make serious inroads into the CSU voter base. They are thus tactically cutting a right-wing course to win back those voters.

In the past this type of tactic has mostly payed off. The CSU frequently turns up the rhetoric at election times but then mellows once safely back in power. This time round, so far at least, the AfD voter base seems fairly resilient. I guess it's a case of people remembering. and learning from past mistakes
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  #847  
Old 15.06.2018, 11:24
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Depends how wide your reading material is, doesn't it?

Right wing press tends not to report too widely about its own shortcomings, same as the left wing press.

Or so I'm told...
So, to summarize

Marton suggests, not many people attend right wing protests, therefore the right wing doesn't have much support.

Sandgrounder suggests: the right wing press pretends the right wing protest was small, but actually it was massive.

So which one of you is right?
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  #848  
Old 15.06.2018, 11:51
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Sandgrounder suggests: the right wing press pretends the right wing protest was small, but actually it was massive.
Didn't mention anything about size

The "short" bit of "shortcomings" was more to do with negativity in general.

Press on either side of the political spectrum always shows its political leanings in a better light than the opposition. I didn't think this was anything new or groundbreaking, though?
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  #849  
Old 15.06.2018, 11:59
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Didn't mention anything about size

The "short" bit of "shortcomings" was more to do with negativity in general.

Press on either side of the political spectrum always shows its political leanings in a better light than the opposition. I didn't think this was anything new or groundbreaking, though?
Any protest above a certain size and significance will always attract a certan minority of pricks who will act like clowns and / or turn violent. Even when the organizers closely monitor who they allow to join, people will find ways to join.

The press, if they dilaike the cause, will then focus on the idiot fringe rather than on the peaceful protesters. And thus rather than debating the matter that people were protesting about, the conversation will shift to the violence.

A journaist who buries the discussion in that way, whether the matter is left or right, is in my view a poor journalist.
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  #850  
Old 15.06.2018, 12:03
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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A journaist who buries the discussion in that way, whether the matter is left or right, is in my view a poor journalist.
Looking back over the gazillion links on here, it seems this kind of journalism is used by some as a valid source to support their whole argument, though. And I mean BOTH sides of the discussion.
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  #851  
Old 15.06.2018, 12:07
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Looking back over the gazillion links on here, it seems this kind of journalism is used by some as a valid source to support their whole argument, though. And I mean BOTH sides of the discussion.
My point exactly.
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  #852  
Old 16.06.2018, 11:13
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

As Chancellor Angela Merkel fights to save her government in a heated battle over immigration, an opinion poll Friday showed most Germans support the tougher line of her rebel interior minister.

Source
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  #853  
Old 16.06.2018, 11:34
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Yea, it's taking Germans a little time to figure out how to react to Merkel's sudden "wilkommenskultur/wir-schaffen-das". Germans still (!!) have their WW2 guilt, but on the other hand aren't stupid and see the mistakes that countries like France and Sweden made regarding refugees and don't want to repeat them. Interesting to see how they handle it all in the "German" way...
I always feel the urge to defend Germany at this point. Make no mistake, the refugees in 2015 were sent to Europe by Erdogan et.co, in an attempt to blackmail EU, with the great support of Russia of course (logistic and of other nature too, but that's another discussion for another time). What was Germany supposed to do back then? Leave Italy, Greece especially and other countries on the Balkan route drown in the mud? They did what was expected from them to do back then. And a lot of people should be actually grateful for that.
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  #854  
Old 16.06.2018, 13:27
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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What was Germany supposed to do back then?
I'm not sure, but I don't think that opening the borders and calling everyone who disagreed a Nazi was the best solution either.
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  #855  
Old 16.06.2018, 14:23
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

They should have reminded those governments of their obligations to defend the borders of the EU , obeyed the Dublin convention to which they were signatories and sent troops to defend those borders if neccessary.

Merkel in a dictatorial and catastrophic move - unsanctioned by any parliament or people in Europe decided unilaterally to suspend the agreements - which turned the pressure into a flood.
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  #856  
Old 16.06.2018, 15:54
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I'm not sure, but I don't think that opening the borders and calling everyone who disagreed a Nazi was the best solution either.
Germany ceased applying the rules of the Dublin system to Syrian refugees only.

Source

The issue was (and is) that the EU border countries instead of thinking that this was a great chance to lighten their work load saw an even greater and dishonorable chance of allowing all their asylum seekers to go to Germany.
Only around half of those allowed by the EU border countries to enter Germany were of Syrian origin.
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  #857  
Old 16.06.2018, 16:04
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Germany ceased applying the rules of the Dublin system to Syrian refugees only.
Ridiculous and wrong according to the European Court of Justice

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In a ruling which could have far-reaching consequences for how the European Union deals with migrants in future, the European Court of Justice on Wednesday upheld the right of member states to deport asylum-seekers to the first EU country they enter.

The ruling amounted to an effective rejection of Angela Merkel’s controversial “open-door” refugee policy, which saw more than one million asylum-seekers flood into Germany.

The court ruled that the EU’s Dublin regulations, under which refugees must seek asylum in the first member state they enter, still apply despite the unprecedented influx of 2015.
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  #858  
Old 16.06.2018, 16:13
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

From your link
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Germany effectively declared the end of Dublin in its current form in 2015, saying it would not deport Syrians.....
You see? Only applied to Syrians! Not all refugees!
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  #859  
Old 16.06.2018, 16:19
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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From your link


You see? Only applied to Syrians! Not all refugees!
It couldn't have applied because it was illegal - not that you seem to respect the law (although I'm sure when you are in front of officials you change your tune).
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  #860  
Old 16.06.2018, 16:23
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Merkel in a dictatorial and catastrophic move - unsanctioned by any parliament or people in Europe decided unilaterally to suspend the agreements - which turned the pressure into a flood.
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It couldn't have applied because it was illegal
Confusing!
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