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  #881  
Old 19.06.2018, 14:50
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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He is a federal minister, not a Bavarian minsiter.
But neither Verteidigungsminister nor Ministerpräsident(in). And doesn't demployment of the army need to be Ok'ed by the Bundestag anyway?
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  #882  
Old 19.06.2018, 14:53
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I'm not sure, but I don't think that opening the borders and calling everyone who disagreed a Nazi was the best solution either.
I don't think you remember how things were in 2015 when the crisis began. I remember huge crowds of people just marching through the Balkan states and Germany opened the borders for those ones, initially. The fact that Merkel continued to play the charade even after the crisis was somehow solved, indirectly encouraging more and more people to come, also insisting on annual quotas and presenting things as irreversible or whatever it's entirely another matter. I think it will cost her a lot, politically. But at that moment she couldn't have done something else. Those people were already there and the Balkans plus Hungary couldn't have taken them. Can you even imagine the mess if Germany didn't open their borders back then?

(not to mention that the refugees or whatever you want to call all of them would have never accepted to be relocated in say - Serbia. But we're running in circles over and over again, don't we)
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  #883  
Old 19.06.2018, 15:08
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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But neither Verteidigungsminister nor Ministerpräsident(in). And doesn't demployment of the army need to be Ok'ed by the Bundestag anyway?
I may be wrong, but in my undestanding the Bundestag only needs to OK the deployment of the army outside of Germany.

The army is doing stuff in Germany all the time. Cleaning up after floods and storms and stuff like that. I don't think the Bundestag is having to vote about that every time.

Of course he cannot command the army himself, but I assume that if Merkel and Seehofer both agree on the necessity (this is a big if) , the rest of the cabinet will go along too.
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  #884  
Old 19.06.2018, 15:52
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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The army is doing stuff in Germany all the time. Cleaning up after floods and storms and stuff like that. I don't think the Bundestag is having to vote about that every time.
That's civil help without the use of force.In these cases the army simply provides manpower the communes or states lack. At least in some cases the soldiers appear to not have been armed at all.

The army's fundamental task is to kill, if necessary with the utmost use of force, that's what soldiers are trained to do; deploying the soldiers unarmed makes them kind of ordinary civil servants.
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  #885  
Old 19.06.2018, 16:26
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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But neither Verteidigungsminister nor Ministerpräsident(in). And doesn't demployment of the army need to be Ok'ed by the Bundestag anyway?
I believe certainly need to be Ok'ed by the Bundestag in cases where they are armed and empowered to shoot to kill?
If they are not armed then they will not have much power!

Anyway the army is not trained for border patrol, some years ago they had a Swiss army exercise to patrol the border.
I was in a car driven by a Swiss guy who flatly refused to obey their commands or show any identity papers. Eventually they found a regular border guard to do the stuff but he would not confirm the army had rights to control entry.
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  #886  
Old 19.06.2018, 17:25
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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That's civil help without the use of force.In these cases the army simply provides manpower the communes or states lack. At least in some cases the soldiers appear to not have been armed at all.

The army's fundamental task is to kill, if necessary with the utmost use of force, that's what soldiers are trained to do; deploying the soldiers unarmed makes them kind of ordinary civil servants.
Sure, but this is not the USA. Deploying the army to the border does not imply they need to be armed or ready to kill. They can just help support the regular border guard in a crisis situation.
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  #887  
Old 19.06.2018, 17:41
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Sure, but this is not the USA. Deploying the army to the border does not imply they need to be armed or ready to kill. They can just help support the regular border guard in a crisis situation.
So not armed or ready to kill, what will the army do in a crisis situation; hand out flowers?

If they are not armed or ready to kill then what is the reason to deploy the army versus other State employees like train ticket inspectors ?
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  #888  
Old 19.06.2018, 17:48
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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So not armed or ready to kill, what will the army do in a crisis situation; hand out flowers?

If they are not armed or ready to kill then what is the reason to deploy the army versus other State employees like train ticket inspectors ?
Same reason train ticket inspectors or tax clerks don't clean up after floods and storms, or distribute food packages in a crisis, or stuff like that.
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  #889  
Old 19.06.2018, 17:54
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Same reason train ticket inspectors or tax clerks don't clean up after floods and storms, or distribute food packages in a crisis, or stuff like that.
Different skill set!
Train ticket inspectors and tax clerks have far more experience in dealing with unhappy or aggressive members of the public which would likely be a necessary attribute
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  #890  
Old 25.06.2018, 11:13
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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  #891  
Old 01.07.2018, 22:59
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Reports that Seehofer has resigned. Popcorn at the ready next week if true.
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  #892  
Old 01.07.2018, 23:05
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

WTF are they doing there, in Berlin?
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  #893  
Old 01.07.2018, 23:21
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Reports that Seehofer has resigned. Popcorn at the ready next week if true.
Confirmed - hope that this is the end of this very sorry chapter in European history.
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  #894  
Old 01.07.2018, 23:31
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

The party board is apparently not accepting the resignation.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutsc...a-1216044.html


But it's difficult to get out of such a hole, once you've dug it.

Enjoy the retirement, Horst!
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  #895  
Old 02.07.2018, 17:23
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?


She got 2015, definitely gotta get 2018.
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  #896  
Old 02.07.2018, 17:35
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

This ain't gonna end well.
New elections on the horizon.


There's an old saying in German politics about the ranking of your enemies (least to most dangerous): "Enemy, archenemy, fellow party member".


Never been more true than these days.


Typical case of committing suicide for fear of dying.
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  #897  
Old 02.07.2018, 17:49
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

I'm not really sure what new elections would achieve.

CDU might lose some ground but it would still be tricky to form a government without them, and any government with them would still need to resolve the conflict between Merkel and the conservative wing of her own party.

The easiest solution would be for her to step down and make way for a candidate who can unite the party.
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  #898  
Old 02.07.2018, 19:26
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

There's no majority without CSU.

Also, she can't just step down.
It's a bit more complicated:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion...idence#Germany

Of course, nobody really wants to hold another election. Not even Afd.

The fear of the voter is real ;-)
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  #899  
Old 02.07.2018, 19:51
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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There's no majority without CSU.

Also, she can't just step down.
It's a bit more complicated:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion...idence#Germany
Wikipedia Half baked information at its best. Art. 67 GG is only one way. Art. 68 GG the other where the chancellor poses the question of confidence himself. That was the way Schröder stepped down and forced new elections which Merkel actually nearly lost and would have put her in obvilion.

Watch the TV discussion just after the September 18 2005 elections. Merkel entering th studio as the one which just lost the election and Schröder who is seamingly the confident winner of this chancellor gambit:
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Old 02.07.2018, 19:54
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Wikipedia Half baked information at its best. Art. 67 GG is only one way. Art. 68 GG the other where the chancellor poses the question of confidence himself. That was the way Schröder stepped down and forced new elections which Merkel actually nearly lost and would have put her in obvilion.

Watch the TV discussion just after the September 18 2005 elections. Merkel entering th studio as the one which just lost the election and Schröder who is seamingly the confident winner of this chancellor gambit:

I saw it live on TV back then.

Everybody thought he was on coke. Guido Westerwelle even asked him about it.

Ah, the hopeful years....
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