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  #1041  
Old 03.09.2018, 21:04
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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The problem is: we can't just shoot them at the border.
We also can't have them camp at the border - the Calais "Jungle Camp" would be a picturesque picnic-site in comparison after a short while.


The only way to avoid this is to enable them to make a living in their home-countries so they don't get desperate enough to leave and to help build-up non-failed states there that act like real states and take back citizens (and have identification systems).


Unfortunately, Europe is about 30 years behind schedule on this and ironically enough, the Chinese are picking up the slack by creating jobs in Africa.
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At the current rate, that number may be approaching zero earlier than many think.


In any case, demographic changes will mean that for every employee, there will be a pensioner/retired person in German around 2030.
That's completely unsustainable and the effects are already showing now.
This is exactly why Germany needs more immigrants to work and to pay taxes to support pensions.

China has exactly the same problem of paying pensions due to their single child policy.
Creating jobs in Africa or in their home countries may well be a good social policy but does not help their own looming problem of how to fund their pensioners.

Last edited by marton; 03.09.2018 at 21:25.
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  #1042  
Old 03.09.2018, 21:17
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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these Hitler thugs survive only on publicity. I would personally round them up and ship them out to camps in Siberia for a few years. See how they think after that!
Just like this. Round em up.......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKC8pSFg1Vw
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  #1043  
Old 03.09.2018, 21:27
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Anyway, isn't the proper term Roman salute, rather than Nazi salute?

Just doesn't really tickle people's fears in the same way, does it?

Or make a murder sounds so innocent in comparison.

Not meaning to imply that the press seeks to manipulate, mind you.
Laughable

How many of these people believe they are actually giving a Roman salute
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  #1044  
Old 03.09.2018, 23:42
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Laughable

How many of these people believe they are actually giving a Roman salute
Why don't you ask them?

Both of them, maybe?



How many believe they are using Arabic numerals? But does that change the fact that they are?

I once had to fill in a form at work which said (for the name field) use English alphabet only.

So I spelt my name with a thorn.
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  #1045  
Old 04.09.2018, 07:57
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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This is exactly why Germany needs more immigrants to work and to pay taxes to support pensions.

China has exactly the same problem of paying pensions due to their single child policy.
Creating jobs in Africa or in their home countries may well be a good social policy but does not help their own looming problem of how to fund their pensioners.
The same problem exists in pretty much every European country, especially in Eastern Europe and even in the South. Now, many of them would actually prefer to create better conditions and to see more foreign investments that would allow some sort of economic (and not only) revival in order to attract back their own people who emigrated due to high unemployment rates in particularly poor areas. During communism, every little town or village survived on a couple of big industrial state owned companies. Once the communism was over, these people were left without any other means to support their families than to emigrate to better off parts of Western Europe, with no rights, and to accept any job they could fill in. No rights, no social protection, nada. But back then it was considered normal to shut up and work like a slave. Once the EU has included more countries and the situation of these people was prone to be regularised, the Westerners became unhappy....to use an euphemism. What happened since then? They're willing to start integration programmes for every man and their cousin from Africa, fair enough - they have a problem. But we do too, and it is not going to be solved by bringing in people who need training and assistance. People who might never adapt - culturally. In places where there is no infrastructure left in order to accomplish this sort of huge social engineering and population replacement. (reminds me of Soviet times....) Not at this scale. Yes, there are legitimate cases - real asylum seekers, but by far not all and each of them. Back home we have a saying...."Welcome to X country, your doctors are already here!" But I landed on this forum during full British xenophobia that extended beyond its natural borders, and I know the effects of a certain propaganda.

So once again, marton, what goes down well in Berlin doesn't go down well in Sofia for instance. Not even Germany needs all these migrants, and they made it plenty clear when they proposed redistribution quotas. I don't think it is fair for everybody, considering.
We can argue till the end of the days, what will always stick to people of Europe is double standards policies and mentality, of which you alone are a brilliant representative. We can't agree that only Germany needs or deserves development and measures that serve their specific interests. We're in different places for the time being. You want everybody to agree with your views but it is just not possible.

Last edited by greenmount; 04.09.2018 at 08:26.
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  #1046  
Old 04.09.2018, 07:59
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Why don't you ask them?

Both of them, maybe?



How many believe they are using Arabic numerals? But does that change the fact that they are?

I once had to fill in a form at work which said (for the name field) use English alphabet only.

So I spelt my name with a thorn.
When in Germany do as the Romans do!
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  #1047  
Old 04.09.2018, 08:59
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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This is exactly why Germany needs more immigrants to work and to pay taxes to support pensions.

China has exactly the same problem of paying pensions due to their single child policy.
Creating jobs in Africa or in their home countries may well be a good social policy but does not help their own looming problem of how to fund their pensioners.
Wrong - if Western Europe needs any migrants they must be SKILLED and even then with the pace of automation it is arguable if they need any.

The pensions timebomb is just governmental stupidity - using absurd defined benefit pensions rather than defined contribution.

Germany does have a need for SKILLED migrants - recently filled by Eastern Europeans.
What skills do the lot throwing acid in Ceuta have ?

Adding further unskilled migrants will simply deplete resources further and lead to large increases in crime.
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  #1048  
Old 04.09.2018, 09:01
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Wrong - if Western Europe needs any migrants they must be SKILLED and even then with the pace of automation it is arguable if they need any.

The pensions timebomb is just governmental stupidity - using absurd defined benefit pensions rather than defined contribution.

Germany does have a need for SKILLED migrants - recently filled by Eastern Europeans.
What skills do the lot throwing acid in Ceuta have ?

Adding further unskilled migrants will simply deplete resources further and lead to large increases in crime.
Germany has the money and the infrastructure to adopt and integrate many people. Not every country affords that.
Italy and Spain need the humble workers who shut up and accept what locals can't or won't do. Though I guess they too reached their limits....Europe is a multi-layered human conglomerate that works relatively well when there isn't that much pressure.
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  #1049  
Old 04.09.2018, 09:21
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Germany has the money and the infrastructure to adopt and integrate many people. Not every country affords that.
Italy and Spain need the humble workers who shut up and accept what locals can't or won't do. Though I guess they too reached their limits....Europe is a multi-layered human conglomerate that works relatively well when there isn't that much pressure.
The same thing was said about France in the 70s and 80s... witness Marseille and St.Denis.
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  #1050  
Old 04.09.2018, 09:22
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Germany has the money and the infrastructure to adopt and integrate many people. Not every country affords that.
Italy and Spain need the humble workers who shut up and accept what locals can't or won't do. Though I guess they too reached their limits....Europe is a multi-layered human conglomerate that works relatively well when there isn't that much pressure.

It only works until the money has run out.


We'll see it soon enough.
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  #1051  
Old 04.09.2018, 10:19
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Wrong - if Western Europe needs any migrants they must be SKILLED and even then with the pace of automation it is arguable if they need any.

The pensions timebomb is just governmental stupidity - using absurd defined benefit pensions rather than defined contribution.

Germany does have a need for SKILLED migrants - recently filled by Eastern Europeans.
What skills do the lot throwing acid in Ceuta have ?

Adding further unskilled migrants will simply deplete resources further and lead to large increases in crime.
So what is your solution for all those countries that have ageing populations and declining birth rates?

If countries only take "skilled migrants" then who will work in the fields, serve in restaurants and clean toilets? The locals certainly do not want to!

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The pensions timebomb is just governmental stupidity - using absurd defined benefit pensions rather than defined contribution.
How does this help?
Govt. pensions are Ponzi schemes. There are no reserves, they pay this years pensions out of this years taxes.
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  #1052  
Old 04.09.2018, 10:31
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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So what is your solution for all those countries that have ageing populations and declining birth rates?

If countries only take "skilled migrants" then who will work in the fields, serve in restaurants and clean toilets? The locals certainly do not want to!


How does this help?
Govt. pensions are Ponzi schemes. There are no reserves, they pay this years pensions out of this years taxes.



Not if you have a pension fund.


But famous Bavarian politician Franz Joseph Strauß once made the remark that "Rather is it likely that a dog would hoard sausages than Social Democrats spending money responsibly".


These days, that can easily be extended to any political party.


A pension fund a la Norway requires fiscal discipline that is unfortunately beyond the means of politicians in Germany at the moment.
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  #1053  
Old 04.09.2018, 10:32
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Germany has the money and the infrastructure to adopt and integrate many people.
That is maybe a question of perspective.

In the German town where my in-laws live you regularly see pensioners rummaging in bins to collect deposit bottles. You didn't see that, say, 20 years ago.

It is a question of priorities of course. I don't believe for one moment there genuinely isn't the money to help these people. But the sad fact is that they aren't getting it.

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Not every country affords that.
Italy and Spain need the humble workers who shut up and accept what locals can't or won't do. Though I guess they too reached their limits....Europe is a multi-layered human conglomerate that works relatively well when there isn't that much pressure.
The problem is that the migrants for the largest part are not coming to realize the dream of being an agricultural worker. If you want to attract people for special jobs, make sure they know what it is they are getting into and then you attract the people who want that.
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  #1054  
Old 04.09.2018, 10:38
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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So what is your solution for all those countries that have ageing populations and declining birth rates?

If countries only take "skilled migrants" then who will work in the fields, serve in restaurants and clean toilets? The locals certainly do not want to!
People who don't earn much money don't contribute much to the pension fund. Doctors, engineers, CEOs etc would raise much more revenue and support many more pensioners.

Agricultural work and such is best covered by seasonal workers.
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Old 04.09.2018, 10:40
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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That is maybe a question of perspective.

In the German town where my in-laws live you regularly see pensioners rummaging in bins to collect deposit bottles. You didn't see that, say, 20 years ago.

That's just the beginning.


The depression of wages that started in the early 21st century, together with ultra-low interest rates will have absolutely drastic consequences for these and future pensioners.
Add a couple of years of high inflation at some point and you have a perfect storm.
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  #1056  
Old 04.09.2018, 10:40
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Not if you have a pension fund.


But famous Bavarian politician Franz Joseph Strauß once made the remark that "Rather is it likely that a dog would hoard sausages than Social Democrats spending money responsibly".


These days, that can easily be extended to any political party.


A pension fund a la Norway requires fiscal discipline that is unfortunately beyond the means of politicians in Germany at the moment.
Exactly, the Norway Pension Fund is an excellent idea.
Sadly the other countries never had the surplus money to start such a thing and it is now far too late for them.

Of course individuals have their own pension funds but how long these will remain safe when Govts. do not have sufficient funds to pay their own pensioners is a good question.
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  #1057  
Old 04.09.2018, 10:44
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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People who don't earn much money don't contribute much to the pension fund. Doctors, engineers, CEOs etc would raise much more revenue and support many more pensioners.

Agricultural work and such is best covered by seasonal workers.
CEOs? These will be CEOs of one man companies that have no low skilled workers?
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  #1058  
Old 04.09.2018, 10:48
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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That's just the beginning.


The depression of wages that started in the early 21st century, together with ultra-low interest rates will have absolutely drastic consequences for these and future pensioners.
Add a couple of years of high inflation at some point and you have a perfect storm.
I have seen Swiss pensioners searching bins for deposit bottles, not yet often I am happy to report.

If people want to have pensions when they are old then unfortunately they will have to accept some big cultural and social changes.

Of course they can stick to their views and so look forward to an old age of sleeping under bridges, scavenging for food.
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  #1059  
Old 04.09.2018, 10:51
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I have seen Swiss pensioners searching bins for deposit bottles, not yet often I am happy to report.
I think this is, rather depressingly, down to the younger people not being figged to take the bottles back and the older generation is taking advantage of it, rather than scraping through bins out of necessity.
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  #1060  
Old 04.09.2018, 10:52
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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CEOs? These will be CEOs of one man companies that have no low skilled workers?
Many big companies have already offshored much of their low skilled work but keep the high end and high value work in Germany.

Surely if you have the choice between building a factory in Lowcostistan, or bringing thousands of workers over from Lowcostistan, it should be obvious that in all but maybe some special cases, moving the factory to Lowcostistan is the cheaper option. Cheaper real estate, lower salaries. Easier to attract better than average workers by offering better than average salaries.
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