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  #101  
Old 27.01.2016, 12:13
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Maybe in a way it's a wake-up call. I can see public opinion in Germany is moving over and we are hearing positions in the mainstream that would have been unthinkable only months ago. Right now we are seeing knee-jerk reactions that come across as extremism. People see something is wrong but have difficulty formulating what exactly it is or finding a remedy. But over the next few years I expect a public discourse to ensue that will draw the line between helping those in genuine need and being tough on freeloaders.
Society has a natural balance to it, if you suddenly flood any country with a foreign group, nobody knows exactly what will happen, but one thing for sure is that it's not going to be the same as it was before.

When Merkel opened the flood-gates, Germans didn't know how to react. The first knee-jerk reaction was political correctness, as no average German wanted to be labelled a racist. Now after the incidents in NYE Köln (and other cities) and other issues come to light, alot of Germans are starting to drop the PC and letting their pragmatic side take over.

And altho public tide is turning quickly, what really matters is what the top government leaders are doing, and so far, there hasn't been any real change of course.
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  #102  
Old 27.01.2016, 12:15
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

I'm not sure Germany really has any time or opportunity left for correction. They are keeping the door open for as long as possible. At 3,000 to 4,000 per day, that can reach 500,000 by summer, and 1,000,000 or more by the end of the year. Politicians continue to assuage the population with talks of faster deportations, which they know they can't legally do.

Basically, it looks like the fix is in. It is beyond Merkel now. She's just playing for time. This is not reversible short of a major transformation of their laws and government, and this will and has already transformed Germany in the past month.

It looks like Germany as we knew it is practically dead. What the new Germany will look like is still under development. I suspect more events to follow.
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  #103  
Old 27.01.2016, 12:21
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I'm not sure Germany really has any time or opportunity left for correction.
Time is ticking, but I don't think it's too late. Not all the people who are there now need to stay either. Germany can try to repatriate them when they deem their home country safe. Or maybe not all the migrants will want to adapt to German society and return home on their own. Even right now, there are weekly planes taking asylum seeks back to Iraq, because they found that Germany wasn't what they expected it to be

http://www.dw.com/en/next-stop-erbil...ome/a-18999030
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  #104  
Old 27.01.2016, 12:26
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Time is ticking, but I don't think it's too late. Not all the people who are there now need to stay either. Germany can try to repatriate them when they deem their home country safe. Or maybe not all the migrants will want to adapt to German society and return home on their own. Even right now, there are weekly planes taking asylum seeks back to Iraq, because they found that Germany wasn't what they expected it to be

http://www.dw.com/en/next-stop-erbil...ome/a-18999030
I was in Holland just before Christmas and watched TV there. They were talking to Syrian refugees living in a refugee hostel and many of them were saying "we want to go home, we don't like it here". And so i assume many of them will follow up on their intentions as soon as the situation in Syria allows it. But its the economic refugees who are the bigger problem.
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  #105  
Old 27.01.2016, 12:28
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Time is ticking, but I don't think it's too late. Not all the people who are there now need to stay either. Germany can try to repatriate them when they deem their home country safe. Or maybe not all the migrants will want to adapt to German society and return home on their own. Even right now, there are weekly planes taking asylum seeks back to Iraq, because they found that Germany wasn't what they expected it to be

http://www.dw.com/en/next-stop-erbil...ome/a-18999030
I hear there is a trickle out, but interviews of the ones who leave seem to be of decent people.

There are some refusals at the border for those trying to reach Sweden. Funny though is they return the next day and say they want to go to Germany, and are let in. Those deported can come back with a different identity. For a vast majority, there is nowhere to deport them to. As the weather clears, millions more will make their way.

The only real solution to this is tight control of the border. For as long as there isn't, there is no real intent to address, and all is just political posturing to buy time. And a large portion of German political sentiment still believe they cannot dare to do anything that resembles selfish national interests. But even if they seal the German border, they will bottleneck in Italy and Greece.
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  #106  
Old 27.01.2016, 14:57
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Hope it comes a lot earlier than that...

Still don't believe EU's borders can be secured without ejecting Greece.
You think the Italians are better?
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  #107  
Old 27.01.2016, 14:58
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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You think the Italians are better?
If push comes to shove, they know how to make the trains run on time
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  #108  
Old 27.01.2016, 15:23
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Pretty scary stuff.


Here, a psychoanalyst points out something not right with Merkel:
http://www.huffingtonpost.de/2016/01..._9064278.html?



Too much power for too long a period had a similiar effect on Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair!
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  #109  
Old 29.01.2016, 17:16
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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40 percent of Germans demand Merkel's resignation over refugee policy, poll says

Unhappy with her government's refugee policy, four out of 10 Germans want Chancellor Merkel to resign, a new poll has shown.
http://www.dw.com/en/40-percent-of-g...ays/a-19011014

Hmm....I don't think time is on her side...
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  #110  
Old 29.01.2016, 17:23
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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http://www.dw.com/en/40-percent-of-g...ays/a-19011014

Hmm....I don't think time is on her side...
I'm still surprised that 6 in 10 seem to think she should stay.

It just goes to show how asleep and/or Obrigkeitshörig many Germans still are.

Interesting that the Greens are now her staunchest supporters.
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  #111  
Old 29.01.2016, 18:10
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Yup.
Killed by Soviet Speznaz during the invasion, AFAIK.
I read that the Speznaz view it as one of their finest hours.
;-)
Couldn't be more wrong.

Mohammed Sahir Schah was king from 1933-1973, died 2007 in Kabul. He was overthrown 1973 while in Italy by Mohammed Daoud Khan, who in turn was ousted and killed in 1978 by his former supporters from the Democratic People Party of Afghanistan, which was pro-communist and pro-USSR from the beginning. The USSR invaded in 1979.

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A brand-spanking-new report from Reuters on the magnificent suppression of 'wrong-think' on Facebook in Deutschland
Facebook is a private profit-oriented company. Any private entity is free to not publish stuff as they chose (a few rare exceptions may apply).
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  #112  
Old 29.01.2016, 18:11
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

There's reason why the German constitution demands that a Chancellor can't just step back (or be kicked out) - somebody else has to step up at the same time.

And who, in the minds of those 40% should be running the show instead of her?
Certainly none of her own party. They're all clowns. Or women with "issues".
Only topped by SPD-brass. Those are incompetent clowns.
Esp. Mr. Gabriel. He'll say anything that the poll-of-the-week would encourage him to say.
At least, Merkel can keep her mouth shut and doesn't have an opinion for every goddam non-issue that is making the headlines.
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  #113  
Old 29.01.2016, 18:27
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Couldn't be more wrong.

Mohammed Sahir Schah was king from 1933-1973, died 2007 in Kabul. He was overthrown 1973 while in Italy by Mohammed Daoud Khan, who in turn was ousted and killed in 1978 by his former supporters from the Democratic People Party of Afghanistan, which was pro-communist and pro-USSR from the beginning. The USSR invaded in 1979.
Ah, yes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafizullah_Amin#Death
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Storm-333
Sorry, got it mixed up.
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  #114  
Old 29.01.2016, 18:31
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Facebook is a private profit-oriented company. Any private entity is free to not publish stuff as they chose (a few rare exceptions may apply).
This is the same argument Fox News uses to defend being hideuosly biassed and bering highly selective with which out-of-context bits of the truth they chose to broadcast.

It is interesting that the same people who disapprove of one excess are quite Ok with the other.

The big difference being that in Germany, the government, who are not supposed to be in the censorship business, are leading on a private enterprise to use its right to be biassed.
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  #115  
Old 29.01.2016, 18:45
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

Merkel should resign:

- AfD: 65.0%. Only 2/3 Come on AfD, you are disappointing a few posters on this thread

- Die Linke: 45.4%. Xenophobia? Nah, any excuse is good enough for them to get rid of her.

- FDP: 44.0%. I understand them, after the humiliation of the last federal election.

- SPD: 41.3%. Not surprised, coming from an opportunistic party, knowing who will most likely be the next Chancellor.

- Die Grünen: 30.0%. The strongest support for the chancellor came from ... the Greens... and the CDU...

- CDU: 26.6%. After all, they are pragmatic, knowing who will most likely be the next Chancellor if Merkel was to be kicked out (very unlikely) or stepping down (quite unlikely in the near future).

- CSU: ??.?%. Has Bavaria already left Germany?


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...While 39.9 percent of Germans surveyed by the pollster Insa for "Focus" magazine said Chancellor Angela Merkel's refugee policy is grounds for her to step down, 45.2 percent of the more than 2,000 people polled said they did not believe she should leave office. The remaining 15 percent did not state an opinion.

Members of Germany's right-leaning Alternative for Germany Party (AfD) were particularly critical of Merkel, with two in three AfD members demanding the chancellor resign.

Among Germany's Left party, 45.4 percent of the survey's participants demanded Merkel's resignation, 44 percent of Free Democratic Party (FDP) supporters and 41.3 percent of Social Democrats (SPD).

The strongest support for the chancellor came from the Greens and Merkel's own Christian Democratic Union members, with lower figures of 30 and 26.6 percent calling for her resignation, respectively...

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http://www.dw.com/en/40-percent-of-g...ays/a-19011014

Hmm....I don't think time is on her side...
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  #116  
Old 29.01.2016, 19:06
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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I'm still surprised that 6 in 10 seem to think she should stay.

It just goes to show how asleep and/or Obrigkeitshörig many Germans still are.

Interesting that the Greens are now her staunchest supporters.
I'm not surprised in the slightest.

She was their hero a year ago when she was battering Greece, and she will be their hero again. Germans may be angry at her right now, but that will pass, and there's nobody around to replace her.

It's like America. There's nobody on the political scene of the calibre of Obama, and much as I hate to say it, there's nobody to replace Cameron either. I don't like Corbyn and don't see him as a leader on the World stage.

At this point in the game, there's little point making a substitution for the sake of it, and whether we like it or not, Merkel has the respect of the other World leaders.
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  #117  
Old 29.01.2016, 19:47
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

40% of Germans want Merkel to quit over her refugee policy:

http://news.yahoo.com/40-percent-ger...095601265.html
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  #118  
Old 29.01.2016, 21:29
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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At least, Merkel can keep her mouth shut
...except when she opens it to invite everyone to come to Germany

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It's like America. There's nobody on the political scene of the calibre of Obama
Thank God. Obama's caliber is a .22 with wet gunpowder

As for someone stepping up, there's always somebody somewhere. Or is it better to leave someone in office who's losing, or lost, the public's confidence and trust?
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  #119  
Old 30.01.2016, 02:57
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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This is the same argument Fox News uses to defend being hideuosly biassed and bering highly selective with which out-of-context bits of the truth they chose to broadcast.

It is interesting that the same people who disapprove of one excess are quite Ok with the other.

The big difference being that in Germany, the government, who are not supposed to be in the censorship business, are leading on a private enterprise to use its right to be biassed.
Vox is voicing its own opinion by actively and purposefully airing its stuff (which it probably produced itself to begin with), while Facebook "merely" provides a platform for stuff produced by others, the opinion of which FB need not share, may even be in complete contradiction of.

The difference is similar to the ordinary content of any newspaper vs readers' letters/posts - with the latter anything goes as long as it's on topic and not (potentially) illegal.

Edit:
Publishing racist stuff is clearly illegal here, presumably in Germany as well. By criticizing FB for its initiative you essentially criticize FB for exercising its right to self protection. I fail to see why you think you have a case.

Last edited by Urs Max; 30.01.2016 at 03:21.
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  #120  
Old 30.01.2016, 03:35
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Re: Do you believe in Merkel?

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Merkel should resign:
- AfD: 65.0%. Only 2/3 Come on AfD, you are disappointing a few posters on this thread
- Die Linke: 45.4%. Xenophobia? Nah, any excuse is good enough for them to get rid of her.
- FDP: 44.0%. I understand them, after the humiliation of the last federal election.
- SPD: 41.3%. Not surprised, coming from an opportunistic party, knowing who will most likely be the next Chancellor.
- Die Grünen: 30.0%. The strongest support for the chancellor came from ... the Greens... and the CDU...
- CDU: 26.6%. After all, they are pragmatic, knowing who will most likely be the next Chancellor if Merkel was to be kicked out (very unlikely) or stepping down (quite unlikely in the near future).
- CSU: ??.?%. Has Bavaria already left Germany?
Did you know that only 2% of the vote for AfD? (Alternative für Deutschland) But certainly you know that women have barely any rights in certain countries, don't you.





Well, now you also know that the rights have no women.
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